FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Gregory Sager]

Yep. My bad.

Luke Lamm, Luke Lehnen. To-may-toe, to-mah-toe ... 

[bleedpurple]

A great season team can still upset a great program team. You have to start somewhere to build. The elite players want to play for a championship, if you can show it is possible, you draw more elite players. Nothing like a national championship to boost recruitment. That is what builds the great programs. Every year it is repeated makes it that much easier to repeat it.

Of course.  And sometimes it is, as an individual game, not even an upset.  But those games are exceptionally rare.

What this means is that the great-season-team will be at best in the same room, briefly, as the big dogs.  They're still sitting at the kids table when the food comes out.  There's a lot of chatter about how the gap has closed, and yet I look at my bracket and still see Whitewater and Mount alive, undefeated, and barely tested this year.

To add some context: Mount Union has lost exactly four games to teams not named Whitewater or Mary Hardin-Baylor since 2000.  St. John beat them in 2003; Ohio Northern in 2005; John Carroll in 2016; North Central in 2019.  In a two decade timespan, you can count them on one hand.  And nobody, aside from the Warhawks (six times) and Cru (three times), has done it twice.  It's thousandaires and billionaires.

To continue the analogy, North Central gets to stay for dessert, for now, based on its wins in 2019 and its continued success so far this year.  Everybody else this side of Mary Hardin-Baylor is in the kitchen helping with the dishes or pulling the cars around.  NCC has a rare opportunity to ascend beyond "huh, that was the weird year where someone else won".  As an alum, I hope the Cardinals take advantage and start to change the discussion.  But I don't find conversations to be especially serious if they are suggesting that teams stringing together a couple of playoff wins against other competition have proven anything relative to the programs in Alliance and Southeastern Wisconsin, especially when we have a two-decade long track record that suggests otherwise.

I like the way you think, Kiko. Very refreshing in a culture of rapid-anointing and microwave crowning. I would suggest perhaps even more patience in terms of declaring a program to be among the purples.  If NCC goes back to back, that would be very impressive and they will obviously be in the Stagg Bowl discussion for the foreseeable future. However, I think the true test of their program will be beyond the playing days of Greenfield, Kamienski, et al.  If they can go to Stagg Bowls once those studs are done, then we might have to talk about the purple and red elite programs. Until then, we can certainly say hats off to NCC for putting together an incredibly talented team for a couple of years.

Favorite new phrases of the week!  Agreed.  A lot of football left to play this year, but being able to have continued success without Broc Rutter and a freshman at the helm instead is step 1 down this path.

The difference I see in the past 3-4 years is that the gap has clearly narrowed.

For a good chunk of the "Purple Reign" there were years where the only competitive game Mount and UWW played was against one another, and maybe 1 close playoff game (for UWW in the West/North). Or we entered the playoffs and a person could wager their 401k that the Stagg would be Mount v. UWW. That no longer seems to be the case. No one has put together consistent success like these two. We used to talk about Tiers. Purple Tier (Mount & UWW), Semifinal Threat Tier (teams in the top 3-8 nationally), The Rest of the Field. Semi-Final tier could blowout about anyone in the bottom Tier. But the Purple Tier often Monkey Stomped the Semifinal Tier.

It's not mutually exclusive to recognize the playoffs are more interesting right now with what appear to be 4+ teams capable of winning the whole thing, and also acknowledge no one has done what Mount and UWW have done in terms of dynasty. It might still be a Mount/UWW Stagg this year (that wouldn't shock me one bit), but it's far from the forgone conclusion it once was.

10 years ago, we'd get maybe one team a year capable of even threatening the Purple Reign. Even 'great season' teams often fell far short of really pushing the Purple Powers. Now the 'great season' teams are more than just a single outlier, and actually seem capable of making the Stagg and even winning it.

Agree with the statements above as well for the most part. I DEFINITELY agree that NCC moving past Rutter and looking as dominant as they have is a good sign, especially if they win the Stagg Bowl or go down to the wire in a game against Mount or UW-W trying. But I do think we need to get past the "Belichick/Brady" type debate of Rutter vs Greenfield/Kamienski/great O-line and see if NCC remains in the upper echelon. 

I agree the gap has seems to have narrowed as well between the Purple Powers and the "Great Season" teams.   But I also think we tend to forget some of the "close calls" the purple powers had along the way after the seasons ended with them both in the Stagg Bowl (especially UW-W). I think of games against Wartburg, Linfield, St John's, and UMHB (before they arguably crashed the purple party)  and distinctly remembering them as not easy. I'm guessing I'm missing others as well.  I often felt during the height of the Whitewater/Mount run that the final result wasn't near as inevitable as it appeared after the fact.

I also think the teams that are seemingly consistently bringing in talent to at least challenge the purple powers are better than the teams that did in the past (maybe my perception only and longevity yet to be determined).  IMO, NCC, Wheaton, and St. John's are better than the Wesley's and occasional "great season" teams of the past. Add that to the staying power of UMHB and the ability of a Central to put together even a one to two year threat, and to me the prognosis looks very good for D-III "parity".  Let's put it this way. If Mount and Whitewater continue/ resume a run of  consistently meeting or at least one of them appearing in the Stagg Bowl, I believe they will have to keep improving themselves.  They are being pushed by very good programs and very good coaches.  And that's a great thing IMO.

[hazzben]

Let's put it this way. If Mount and Whitewater continue/ resume a run of  consistently meeting or at least one of them appearing in the Stagg Bowl, I believe they will have to keep improving themselves.  They are being pushed by very good programs and very good coaches.  And that's a great thing IMO.

Totally agree. It's more interesting, and frankly better for D3 if there are multiple teams consistently capable of pushing and beating Mount/UWW. It makes the Top of the division better, and as bleed points out, makes the Purple Powers better as well. Here's to a round of very compelling games!

[New Tradition]

Speaking of Luke, check it out!

https://d3football.com/playoffs/2021/north-central-lehnen-learning-on-run

[MRMIKESMITH]

A great season team can still upset a great program team. You have to start somewhere to build. The elite players want to play for a championship, if you can show it is possible, you draw more elite players. Nothing like a national championship to boost recruitment. That is what builds the great programs. Every year it is repeated makes it that much easier to repeat it.

Of course.  And sometimes it is, as an individual game, not even an upset.  But those games are exceptionally rare.

What this means is that the great-season-team will be at best in the same room, briefly, as the big dogs.  They're still sitting at the kids table when the food comes out.  There's a lot of chatter about how the gap has closed, and yet I look at my bracket and still see Whitewater and Mount alive, undefeated, and barely tested this year.

To add some context: Mount Union has lost exactly four games to teams not named Whitewater or Mary Hardin-Baylor since 2000.  St. John beat them in 2003; Ohio Northern in 2005; John Carroll in 2016; North Central in 2019.  In a two decade timespan, you can count them on one hand.  And nobody, aside from the Warhawks (six times) and Cru (three times), has done it twice.  It's thousandaires and billionaires.

To continue the analogy, North Central gets to stay for dessert, for now, based on its wins in 2019 and its continued success so far this year.  Everybody else this side of Mary Hardin-Baylor is in the kitchen helping with the dishes or pulling the cars around.  NCC has a rare opportunity to ascend beyond "huh, that was the weird year where someone else won".  As an alum, I hope the Cardinals take advantage and start to change the discussion.  But I don't find conversations to be especially serious if they are suggesting that teams stringing together a couple of playoff wins against other competition have proven anything relative to the programs in Alliance and Southeastern Wisconsin, especially when we have a two-decade long track record that suggests otherwise.

I like the way you think, Kiko. Very refreshing in a culture of rapid-anointing and microwave crowning. I would suggest perhaps even more patience in terms of declaring a program to be among the purples.  If NCC goes back to back, that would be very impressive and they will obviously be in the Stagg Bowl discussion for the foreseeable future. However, I think the true test of their program will be beyond the playing days of Greenfield, Kamienski, et al.  If they can go to Stagg Bowls once those studs are done, then we might have to talk about the purple and red elite programs. Until then, we can certainly say hats off to NCC for putting together an incredibly talented team for a couple of years.

Favorite new phrases of the week!  Agreed.  A lot of football left to play this year, but being able to have continued success without Broc Rutter and a freshman at the helm instead is step 1 down this path.

The difference I see in the past 3-4 years is that the gap has clearly narrowed.

For a good chunk of the "Purple Reign" there were years where the only competitive game Mount and UWW played was against one another, and maybe 1 close playoff game (for UWW in the West/North). Or we entered the playoffs and a person could wager their 401k that the Stagg would be Mount v. UWW. That no longer seems to be the case. No one has put together consistent success like these two. We used to talk about Tiers. Purple Tier (Mount & UWW), Semifinal Threat Tier (teams in the top 3-8 nationally), The Rest of the Field. Semi-Final tier could blowout about anyone in the bottom Tier. But the Purple Tier often Monkey Stomped the Semifinal Tier.

It's not mutually exclusive to recognize the playoffs are more interesting right now with what appear to be 4+ teams capable of winning the whole thing, and also acknowledge no one has done what Mount and UWW have done in terms of dynasty. It might still be a Mount/UWW Stagg this year (that wouldn't shock me one bit), but it's far from the forgone conclusion it once was.

10 years ago, we'd get maybe one team a year capable of even threatening the Purple Reign. Even 'great season' teams often fell far short of really pushing the Purple Powers. Now the 'great season' teams are more than just a single outlier, and actually seem capable of making the Stagg and even winning it.

Agree with the statements above as well for the most part. I DEFINITELY agree that NCC moving past Rutter and looking as dominant as they have is a good sign, especially if they win the Stagg Bowl or go down to the wire in a game against Mount or UW-W trying. But I do think we need to get past the "Belichick/Brady" type debate of Rutter vs Greenfield/Kamienski/great O-line and see if NCC remains in the upper echelon. 

I agree the gap has seems to have narrowed as well between the Purple Powers and the "Great Season" teams.   But I also think we tend to forget some of the "close calls" the purple powers had along the way after the seasons ended with them both in the Stagg Bowl (especially UW-W). I think of games against Wartburg, Linfield, St John's, and UMHB (before they arguably crashed the purple party)  and distinctly remembering them as not easy. I'm guessing I'm missing others as well.  I often felt during the height of the Whitewater/Mount run that the final result wasn't near as inevitable as it appeared after the fact.

I also think the teams that are seemingly consistently bringing in talent to at least challenge the purple powers are better than the teams that did in the past (maybe my perception only and longevity yet to be determined).  IMO, NCC, Wheaton, and St. John's are better than the Wesley's and occasional "great season" teams of the past. Add that to the staying power of UMHB and the ability of a Central to put together even a one to two year threat, and to me the prognosis looks very good for D-III "parity".  Let's put it this way. If Mount and Whitewater continue/ resume a run of  consistently meeting or at least one of them appearing in the Stagg Bowl, I believe they will have to keep improving themselves.  They are being pushed by very good programs and very good coaches.  And that's a great thing IMO.

I'd think that Wesley would be in the category during the Drass era (post 2005/6). During those times, they brought in phenomenal talent. The unfortunately like many other teams couldn't get over the Mount hump. However, if you were to talk to many of their players (and I have), they believe they could beat anyone at any given time. They did mentioned that UW-W offensive lines and defensive lines during those eras were the best they seen. 

[CardinalAlum]

Weather in Naperville looks like 40 degrees and sunny for game time on Saturday.

[Ice Bear]

Ice Bear says what a great write up on NC QB LL (Ice apologizes as he couldn't resist throwing the LL after the NC and QB. Obviously he is referring to excellent Freshman North Central QB Luke Lehnen). Ice Bear has a ton of admiration for the maturity it takes for a young man to play two sports, in college, at a very high level. Ice says this young man is a great story and very impressive for not being all that big. What a great ****ing player. Ice wishes him all the best moving forward.

Ice Bear believes that this weekend's matchup between North Central and RPI will most likely turn out with the Cardinals winning by at least three scores. With that said Ice is, at this point a huge RPI fan and hoping their stout D and mature senior QB can make some magic against what is undoubtedly an amazing ****ing program and team in North Central. RPI has faced a **** ton of adversity this season and risen above all of it. The commitment to excellence by both the players and coaches has been remarkable (considering their administration consistently has them on the ****ing "pay no mind list"). RPI has a ton of character and poise and has really strived and thrived (another line Ice steals from the Great Walt Clyde Frazier) off of pressure and close games. Ice hopes this contest will be competitive and entertaining with absolutely no injuries to either side. Ice Bear says may the best team win.

*Also know that Ice is a life long Union fan whose pure ****ing hatred of everything RPI has stemmed over four decades until very recently. This program, even being Union's arch rival across the board, has earned Ice's respect and hopefully some of you can take the time to appreciate all they have done so far this year.

Ice, Ice Baby

[bbfan44]

A quarter final score of 55-6 ?
Silly system

[robertgoulet]

That was an uncharacteristic game from NCC. Don't know what it was but things seemed disjointed, but even with that it was still a fairly comfortable win. Lehnen's passes fluttered a bit more than I'm used to seeing. Holding calls (not necessarily all legitimate) galore. Some rough officiating both ways.

One thing I did like is NCC putting some new stuff on tape for Mt to think about. Should be a great game next weekend.

[SpartanHouse]

A quarter final score of 55-6 ?
Silly system

Needs to change. This is just dumb.

Central plays Bethel and Wheaton in the first two rounds and a team like RPI makes it to the quarters?

What a joke.

[WRMUalum13]

A quarter final score of 55-6 ?
Silly system

Needs to change. This is just dumb.

Central plays Bethel and Wheaton in the first two rounds and a team like RPI makes it to the quarters?

What a joke.

The economics of a national tournament in D3 means that there has to be a regionally built bracket. I'm not sure how we change it while allowing the current level of accessibility without significantly more travel funding.

Also... Why is unfair that Central played Bethel and Wheaton... they beat both those teams and made it just as far as RPI did.

[New Tradition]

Safe travels to alliance for the Cards this week. Unbelievable.

[WashedUpCard]

Safe travels to alliance for the Cards this week. Unbelievable.

That's unreal. 

Wally, what's the story here?

[Stagg Again!!]

Safe travels to alliance for the Cards this week. Unbelievable.

If this doesn't piss off the #1 team in the country, nothing will.  Think the Cardinals should go to Alliance and monkey stomp the Raiders!  This is a poor decision by the NCAA.

[hazzben]

That's egregious. Let NCC use it as a little bit more motivation.