FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[iwu70]

The IWU Homecoming win over Carroll was a tale of two halfs . . . . IWU down 14-0 at the intermission, then coming back from 21-0 down to score 26 in the second to win the game.  Also, much improved defense in the second, and benefiting also from special teams play, with two massive punt returns by #5.  Ryan Saxe again saving the day, at QB, playing very well in the second after the Titans' sputtering start under the other QB.  I hope Norm is convinced now that Saxe deserves to be the starter.  A huge Homecoming crowd . . . with the women's national championship basketball team from 2012 being honored at the intermission. 

IWU'70

[matblake]

The reason why North Park almost beat Millikin was special teams. The Vikings scored their first touchdown on a 2nd-quarter punt play that has to be seen to be believed. Eight Millikin players clustered around an MU punt roll inside the NPU ten. While they were waiting for the ball to stop rolling, Vikings returner Juan Nieves snuck into the Big Blue confab, picked up the ball, and ran it 90 yards to the house. It's one of the most embarrassing football plays I've ever seen, made even worse by the Big Blue fan sitting near the field mic who was yelling, "Oh, no! Oh, no-ho-ho! OH, NO!" on the air.

That brightened a dreary Monday morning.  Thanks!

[SpartanHouse]

Who is having a worst start to the year - Elmhurst or Carthage?

Do either programs not make a coaching change in the offeseason?

[79jaybird]

Elmhurst has taken 2 big steps backwards IMO.   I am not sure if it's coaching, players not executing,  poor (or insufficient) recruiting, or perhaps a combination of all.  But  the program needs somebody or something to catalyst a rebuilding effort.

Saturday is HC at Elmhurst so I'm sure the Jays will have a inspiring start.   

To answer your question BigRedScots,  I would say Carthage has been more of a head scratcher.  I too thought
Carthage would be further along at this point of the season.

[USee]

Congratulations to Giovanni Weeks (268 yds rushing) and Ryan Schwartz (2 INTs--one for a pick 6) for D3.com team of the week honors vs Augie.

Those two were also CCIW POW's. NPU's Juan Nieves received CCCIW POW honors for his spectacular special teams play vs Millikin.

[GoIrish7]

Combination of all 3 things. Recruiting is the biggest issue. Elmhurst won't be successful until they address the situation happening in Admissions / Financial Aid office. Staff currently has 0 connection with Financial Aid and are getting no help in making school affordable. At 99% of d3 schools if you go on a visit to lets say Carthage, NCC and Elmhurst and Elmhurst is where you want to be, the school may not be able to match the price of the other schools but they will atleast make an effort to meet in the middle or get close to the price of the other 2 schools. EC staff is being told the price is the price which in most cases is 5-10k higher than other schools they are competing against.

Because of that, the players they are getting just cannot complete in the CCIW. We are filling the roster with a bunch of players who aren't even on the radars of most CCIW schools because they could not play elsewhere. Staff is then having to go outside of IL to recruit to sell kids on coming to "Chicago" to play. Our roster is filled with out of state players because no Illinois kids want to pay more money to go rebuild a program when they can just go play for schools in the CCIW for cheaper and win games. This shows up big time with team connection. None of these guys are sticking around for summer and building the team internally. They go home and are on there own for summer months. The most important months for d3 team, IMO, are summer. Players run the lifts, players get together 2-3 times a week are work on the field to work checks, routes, conditioning etc. and then at night you bond as a team. None of this is happening when your pulling players from CO, TX, NJ, CA, AZ etc.

EC Defense is diverse and brings a multitude of looks. Players might be in position, but they just aren't talented enough to make plays. Because the Defense has to be complicated, it also comes with busts and giving up big plays... Damned if you do, Damned if you don't on that side of the ball.

EC Offense.... atleast it looks like football this year. Last year we had no concepts, just plays that looked good on a board and funky formations to be gimmicky with no plan. I would say the new OC seems to have a much better hold on the game and atleast we are running concepts that exist to other coaches. My frustration on O has been lack of comprehension of our opponent. North Central is a prime example. EC is not going to win that game. Come in with a plan to run the ball early, eat clock, and get out of there with a loss. EC came out slinging the ball early, resulting in multiple 3 and outs and the score got out of hand before anyone could even get settled into the game. I understand we arent going to run for 4-5 yards a carry, but the goal should be, we lost by 70 last year, lets minimize the damage and get out of there / close the gap a bit in how bad we get blown out by.

I think a change in leadership only helps if the new header goes through a venting process and interviews the other side of campus... How are we going to compete financially, what are we going to do to get our full time coaches offices(they currently work in an open area in cubicles with no privacy), What is the plan with the locker room? (The new locker room they slapped together is a worse set up than the previous one they had), Staffing(build your staff around Elmhurst Alumni, find good coaches who will work for less because they love the program).....

[Gregory Sager]

Combination of all 3 things. Recruiting is the biggest issue. Elmhurst won't be successful until they address the situation happening in Admissions / Financial Aid office. Staff currently has 0 connection with Financial Aid and are getting no help in making school affordable. At 99% of d3 schools if you go on a visit to lets say Carthage, NCC and Elmhurst and Elmhurst is where you want to be, the school may not be able to match the price of the other schools but they will atleast make an effort to meet in the middle or get close to the price of the other 2 schools. EC staff is being told the price is the price which in most cases is 5-10k higher than other schools they are competing against.

With regard to the first clause of your third sentence, "Staff currently has 0 connection with Financial Aid," I know that NPU has a very bright line between the Financial Aid office and the Department of Athletics that Vikings coaches cannot cross. When a North Park coach has a prospect in his or her office, and the prospect or his or her parents brings up the subject of financial aid, the coach has to say, "Sorry, but I can't talk about that subject. Here's a business card with the name and number of the person in our financial aid department who will be talking to you. I know him/her well, and he/she is good people. That's a person who is very good at what they do, and, like all of our financial aid people, he/she looks out for the best interests of the student. But their job is their job, and I'm not allowed to step on their toes by talking about numbers with you."

I can't say for sure, but I get the feeling that this is a pretty common policy among Division III schools. Anything that encroaches upon, or even hints at, student-athlete privilege when it comes to doling out financial aid is strictly curbed by clearly-set institutional guidelines -- and that means taking coaches out of the picture as much as possible. And I would think that Elmhurst, a school that got caught breaking D3's rules regarding excessive aid to student-athletes (and paid the price for it), would now be policing that bright line even harder than anybody else in the CCIW. At least, I would hope so.

You may be right about how Elmhurst's financial aid officers line up their price against Carthage and North Central. But, for the sake of the Bluejays, I sincerely hope that EU coaches and athletics staff are not a part of that conversation.

Because of that, the players they are getting just cannot complete in the CCIW. We are filling the roster with a bunch of players who aren't even on the radars of most CCIW schools because they could not play elsewhere.

Yes, this is exactly what I said here several weeks ago ... and, again, I didn't enjoy saying it:

The other big part of the reason behind that 63-0 beatdown is that the Bluejays roster simply doesn't have very many CCIW-caliber players. At. All. I could envision about a half-dozen or so of them getting on the field and participating if they were wearing NCC or Wheaton unis -- Julian Cavallo and Winston Brown on offense; Bryce Gable, certainly, and also Antonio Carillo and Colton Kraus on D, and not much else. I know bad CCIW football when I see it, since I've seen more of it than anybody else who posts here, so hear me out: the Bluejays aren't "basically static" from 2021. They are actually worse than they were a year ago. It's essentially a mid-pack UMAC team that got lost on its way to Finlandia and somehow alighted between the Elmhurst Public Library and St. Mary Cemetery.

Moving on:

Staff is then having to go outside of IL to recruit to sell kids on coming to "Chicago" to play. Our roster is filled with out of state players because no Illinois kids want to pay more money to go rebuild a program when they can just go play for schools in the CCIW for cheaper and win games. This shows up big time with team connection. None of these guys are sticking around for summer and building the team internally. They go home and are on there own for summer months. The most important months for d3 team, IMO, are summer. Players run the lifts, players get together 2-3 times a week are work on the field to work checks, routes, conditioning etc. and then at night you bond as a team. None of this is happening when your pulling players from CO, TX, NJ, CA, AZ etc.

Here's where you and I part company. I don't agree with your declaration that the key to success is to recruit local players who work and play together during the summer. Cooperative off-season accountability with regard to body maintenance and development and to technique improvement? Absolutely. Coaches in all sports try to generate as much of that as possible during the parts of the school year that are neither in season nor in the official window of off-season team workouts and scrimmages. Team bonding during the off-season? Of course. One of the distinguishing features of college life is that student-athletes socially clump together in team-based friendships throughout their entire time in college. But the idea that success is dependent upon keeping your players in close proximity to each other in late May, June, July, and early August is a fiction.

For proof, look no further than Wheaton, with its Rand-McNally roster that stretches from sea to shining sea. On a perennial basis Wheaton is good at most sports, very good in some of them -- particularly football. And it happens despite the fact that a huge percentage of Wheaton student-athletes aren't anywhere near Chicagoland during the summer months. Part of what Wheaton demands of its student-athletes is a sense of personal accountability that renders distance from each other moot. Another example is North Park men's soccer, which is likewise a perennial national power.  A prodigious portion of the NPU soccer team isn't even in this country during the summer, let alone in Chicagoland. A lot of Augustana's most accomplished student-athletes in recent years -- football, basketball, baseball in particular -- have been Coloradans. Again, they're not lurking about the QC during the summer months; they're home enjoying mom's cooking while watching Rockies games or hiking the mountains when they're not at their summer jobs. It's not helping Augie football, perhaps, but it certainly hasn't hurt Augie basketball or baseball. Heck, even the non-Coloradan Augie student-athletes are pretty evenly diffused between the western Chicagoland suburbs and rural western Illinois and eastern Iowa -- in other words, they're too spread out and distanced from Rock Island to be gathering together for off-season workouts and night-time recreation.

I think a change in leadership only helps if the new header goes through a venting process and interviews the other side of campus... How are we going to compete financially, what are we going to do to get our full time coaches offices(they currently work in an open area in cubicles with no privacy), What is the plan with the locker room? (The new locker room they slapped together is a worse set up than the previous one they had), Staffing(build your staff around Elmhurst Alumni, find good coaches who will work for less because they love the program).....

It's a sad truth that success and the almighty dollar go hand-in-hand, even in something that's supposed to be as pure and equitable as Division III athletics. But that's life.

[Next Man Up]

Who is having a worst start to the year - Elmhurst or Carthage?

Do either programs not make a coaching change in the offeseason?

I think the difference is that Elmhurst was widely considered to ultimately occupy the last rung on the ladder while Carthage was thought to be able to claim a perch a few spots higher. Accordingly, can we not say that the Cheeseheads are underachieving > than Elmhurst is?

[Next Man Up]

GoIrish7————-

Allow me to ask a question please.

If an Iron Curtain exists between the Athletic Dept/Coaches and Financial Aid that prevents recruitment of high level football prospects, how come this phenomenon does not seem to affect the basketball program, which has lately been able to attract enough talent to reach lofty heights on the D3 landscape??

[79jaybird]

Some good points. I see/hear some of it from a faculty/admin perspective because Mrs. 79Jaybird is a Prof here.  In some instances,  the college is locked into a rate and cannot budge from it.  Agree that college is a business and if you want to get thei big sale, you have to work with the customer to agree to terms.   

When I played and the broadcast the team,  we initially had a ton of out of staters (many from Florida) .  Recruiting started to turn more towards recruiting the Midwest.   With the rise of NC,  many would choose to go to Naperville, for obvious reasons.  Recent success on the field,  good academic rep (almost every CCIW has this),  legendary coach,  and IMO,  NC has a better attitude towards where athletics play in the entire college process. 

I've touched on this before,  if you want to stay in the CCIW and compete, not just be a 1-6 or 2-7 team each year,  you have to approach athletics and the CCIW the same way others (i.e. Augie, IWU, Carthage, etc.) do.    If you don't and/or not willing to have all the ingredients meld together to put a emphasis on athletics,  why stay in the CCIW?  Sure the prestige and level of play in the CCIW is (by far) stronger than the NAC, Midwest, and some of these other local conferences, but oh hum. 
IMO Journell was starting to turn the corner and working with what cards were dealt or available.  Lester,  Lester tried running the show like a D-1 team, and was getting frustrated with the limitations D-III allows and/or college was willing to provide.   
With the current HC,   I am still giving him a grace period to see if some of his recruits can convert into decent returns and he can show some positive strides.

[GoIrish7]

Combination of all 3 things. Recruiting is the biggest issue. Elmhurst won't be successful until they address the situation happening in Admissions / Financial Aid office. Staff currently has 0 connection with Financial Aid and are getting no help in making school affordable. At 99% of d3 schools if you go on a visit to lets say Carthage, NCC and Elmhurst and Elmhurst is where you want to be, the school may not be able to match the price of the other schools but they will atleast make an effort to meet in the middle or get close to the price of the other 2 schools. EC staff is being told the price is the price which in most cases is 5-10k higher than other schools they are competing against.

With regard to the first clause of your third sentence, "Staff currently has 0 connection with Financial Aid," I know that NPU has a very bright line between the Financial Aid office and the Department of Athletics that Vikings coaches cannot cross. When a North Park coach has a prospect in his or her office, and the prospect or his or her parents brings up the subject of financial aid, the coach has to say, "Sorry, but I can't talk about that subject. Here's a business card with the name and number of the person in our financial aid department who will be talking to you. I know him/her well, and he/she is good people. That's a person who is very good at what they do, and, like all of our financial aid people, he/she looks out for the best interests of the student. But their job is their job, and I'm not allowed to step on their toes by talking about numbers with you."

I can't say for sure, but I get the feeling that this is a pretty common policy among Division III schools. Anything that encroaches upon, or even hints at, student-athlete privilege when it comes to doling out financial aid is strictly curbed by clearly-set institutional guidelines -- and that means taking coaches out of the picture as much as possible. And I would think that Elmhurst, a school that got caught breaking D3's rules regarding excessive aid to student-athletes (and paid the price for it), would now be policing that bright line even harder than anybody else in the CCIW. At least, I would hope so.

You may be right about how Elmhurst's financial aid officers line up their price against Carthage and North Central. But, for the sake of the Bluejays, I sincerely hope that EU coaches and athletics staff are not a part of that conversation.

Because of that, the players they are getting just cannot complete in the CCIW. We are filling the roster with a bunch of players who aren't even on the radars of most CCIW schools because they could not play elsewhere.

Yes, this is exactly what I said here several weeks ago ... and, again, I didn't enjoy saying it:

The other big part of the reason behind that 63-0 beatdown is that the Bluejays roster simply doesn't have very many CCIW-caliber players. At. All. I could envision about a half-dozen or so of them getting on the field and participating if they were wearing NCC or Wheaton unis -- Julian Cavallo and Winston Brown on offense; Bryce Gable, certainly, and also Antonio Carillo and Colton Kraus on D, and not much else. I know bad CCIW football when I see it, since I've seen more of it than anybody else who posts here, so hear me out: the Bluejays aren't "basically static" from 2021. They are actually worse than they were a year ago. It's essentially a mid-pack UMAC team that got lost on its way to Finlandia and somehow alighted between the Elmhurst Public Library and St. Mary Cemetery.

Moving on:

Staff is then having to go outside of IL to recruit to sell kids on coming to "Chicago" to play. Our roster is filled with out of state players because no Illinois kids want to pay more money to go rebuild a program when they can just go play for schools in the CCIW for cheaper and win games. This shows up big time with team connection. None of these guys are sticking around for summer and building the team internally. They go home and are on there own for summer months. The most important months for d3 team, IMO, are summer. Players run the lifts, players get together 2-3 times a week are work on the field to work checks, routes, conditioning etc. and then at night you bond as a team. None of this is happening when your pulling players from CO, TX, NJ, CA, AZ etc.

Here's where you and I part company. I don't agree with your declaration that the key to success is to recruit local players who work and play together during the summer. Cooperative off-season accountability with regard to body maintenance and development and to technique improvement? Absolutely. Coaches in all sports try to generate as much of that as possible during the parts of the school year that are neither in season nor in the official window of off-season team workouts and scrimmages. Team bonding during the off-season? Of course. One of the distinguishing features of college life is that student-athletes socially clump together in team-based friendships throughout their entire time in college. But the idea that success is dependent upon keeping your players in close proximity to each other in late May, June, July, and early August is a fiction.

For proof, look no further than Wheaton, with its Rand-McNally roster that stretches from sea to shining sea. On a perennial basis Wheaton is good at most sports, very good in some of them -- particularly football. And it happens despite the fact that a huge percentage of Wheaton student-athletes aren't anywhere near Chicagoland during the summer months. Part of what Wheaton demands of its student-athletes is a sense of personal accountability that renders distance from each other moot. Another example is North Park men's soccer, which is likewise a perennial national power.  A prodigious portion of the NPU soccer team isn't even in this country during the summer, let alone in Chicagoland. A lot of Augustana's most accomplished student-athletes in recent years -- football, basketball, baseball in particular -- have been Coloradans. Again, they're not lurking about the QC during the summer months; they're home enjoying mom's cooking while watching Rockies games or hiking the mountains when they're not at their summer jobs. It's not helping Augie football, perhaps, but it certainly hasn't hurt Augie basketball or baseball. Heck, even the non-Coloradan Augie student-athletes are pretty evenly diffused between the western Chicagoland suburbs and rural western Illinois and eastern Iowa -- in other words, they're too spread out and distanced from Rock Island to be gathering together for off-season workouts and night-time recreation.

I think a change in leadership only helps if the new header goes through a venting process and interviews the other side of campus... How are we going to compete financially, what are we going to do to get our full time coaches offices(they currently work in an open area in cubicles with no privacy), What is the plan with the locker room? (The new locker room they slapped together is a worse set up than the previous one they had), Staffing(build your staff around Elmhurst Alumni, find good coaches who will work for less because they love the program).....

It's a sad truth that success and the almighty dollar go hand-in-hand, even in something that's supposed to be as pure and equitable as Division III athletics. But that's life.

Follow up --

1. Absolutely - Coaches of course cannot speak on behalf of financial aid... But, They can have peace of mind knowing when they do hand over the business card that they have a fighting chance to win or at least be competitive with the SA vs the competition. In this example, when a kid meets with FA they are being told, this is the price and the best we can do, where other institutions will attempt to match, close the gap or be competitive.

2/3. I am glad we can agree!

4. I hear you. And I see what you are saying on success at other CCIW schools with players from across the country. I know players will go home and they should to enjoy off time. I am speaking on just my experience. School ended in May. Most SA's took off and went home for the month of May/June. When we were rolling I would say 90% of our team at Elmhurst were back in July. This included SA's from MI, FL, IN.. If you were player that was within an hour to 2 hours of driving distance, they drove in for Tuesday/Thursday night player run workouts and on field work during the month of July. This just becomes tough to do when 50-75% of your roster is from across the country. Those Tuesday's/Thursday's were some of the most competitive, fun 7 on 7 sessions I have been a part of. We all got together after at one of the off campus houses after and I just felt as if those work hard / play hard moments had mentally gave us confidence going into camp that we were all working together when others potentially were not.

5. And I say it again. I think Coach McDonald is doing a fine job. He is handcuffed in certain places outside of his control. The same defense that worked for years elsewhere is getting run through due to lack of Jimmy's and Joe's. From an Alumni standpoint he has busted his ass to bring guys back around and get former players involved. Much more than the staff prior. Was more saying if change in leadership did occur I hope the new header goes through an in depth venting process with AD/President before signing the dotted line. I think both Planz and Coach McDonald took the job as 1st HC opps without taking a deep dive into whats going on behind the curtain to see why the football team is struggling.

[79jaybird]

Actually Van Aiken is much more athletic focused than Ray and (especially) Cureton ever was.   

Much of the basketball success is owed to Wyatt and Baines being strong recruits,  good people persona,  and a likeable personality.   Note to good old Normy that you attract more bees with honey than vinegar         

[GoIrish7]

GoIrish7————-

Allow me to ask a question please.

If an Iron Curtain exists between the Athletic Dept/Coaches and Financial Aid that prevents recruitment of high level football prospects, how come this phenomenon does not seem to affect the basketball program, which has lately been able to attract enough talent to reach lofty heights on the D3 landscape??

Valid - I can't speak on it as I do not know. As 79Jay mentioned below, HC / Assistants are rolling and great for them! Easier to find 1/2 studs to build a competitive roster around when only 5 people on the floor vs 22+ is all I got.

They have must have a great sales pitch because since 2012/13 when Elmhurst Football, Volleyball, Wrestling, Softball, Soccer, and more were all competing for CCIW championships and playoff runs all sports have dropped off. Just feel like Elmhurst Athletics as a whole are being handcuffed because FA did not word a grant properly. School got the book thrown at them and have been on eggshells with being competitive with Financial Aid since.  Many of the same coaches in the sports listed above who had their programs competing at a high level are now struggling to go .500 respectively..... Sorry for going on.... Back to football!

[79jaybird]

FA is in a tough spot.  There are many variables that come into play from a Admin side.  They often pose roadblocks in the recruiting process.

Back when I was a student (98-02) our volleyball team was really the only success story. With coach Hall retiring, who knows if the new regime will be able to bring Elmhurst back to a 1-3 seated school in that sport.

Frankly, I don't know what the answer is.  Elmhurst is a beautiful campus,  great Academic Rep,  affluent community,  but with regards to athletics,  well many of our facilities are below even HS caliber levels.   

Looking at the game Saturday,   I am hoping Elmhurst can somehow attain a level of consistency that may keep us in the hunt.  Self inflicted wounds and inconsistency has been the theme thus far.   Even a "off" Carthage will cash in and beat us up if this occurs Saturday. 

[Gregory Sager]

Back when I was a student (98-02) our volleyball team was really the only success story. With coach Hall retiring, who knows if the new regime will be able to bring Elmhurst back to a 1-3 seated school in that sport.

While I was genuinely excited to see the 'jays beat North Central last night, since that upset win at Faganel helps North Park, I don't see the 'jays coming back to CCIW dominance in women's volleyball anytime soon. The CCIW is good at most sports, excellent in a few, but women's volleyball is a particularly tough and competitive sport, top to bottom, in this league. Four different CCIW teams (Carthage, Illinois Wesleyan, Millikin, and North Park) have received votes in this season's AVCA Top 25 poll at one point or another, and that's in spite of the fact that there's only been four polls thus far.

Frankly, I don't know what the answer is.  Elmhurst is a beautiful campus,  great Academic Rep,  affluent community,  but with regards to athletics,  well many of our facilities are below even HS caliber levels.

Your athletics department needs a sugar daddy, like Newton Tarble has been for Carthage. It's obvious that the wider alumni base isn't giving EU the money it needs to keep up with the Joneses.

Looking at the game Saturday,   I am hoping Elmhurst can somehow attain a level of consistency that may keep us in the hunt.  Self inflicted wounds and inconsistency has been the theme thus far.   Even a "off" Carthage will cash in and beat us up if this occurs Saturday.

Sorry, Mark, but I don't see it happening. I think that the Firebirds pick up their first W this Saturday, and I think it'll be by a multiple-score margin.