FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[ncc58]

I think the optimal roster size is 90-100. 1st and 2nd team offense, plus 3-5 offensive specialists for 25-28 players. 1st and 2nd team defense, plus 3-5 defensive specialists for 25-28 players. Offensive scout team 18-25 players, Defensive scout team 18-25 players. Kicking specialists (place kicker, punters) 4-6.

If your numbers get much above this, you'll have players standing around during practice with nothing to do. You also need to factor in somewhere between 10-15% of the players will be injured and unable to practice or play on Saturday. This may seem high for August, but is typical for mid-October.

[Mugsy]

I do understand and appreciate that perspective but don't you think that if a roster is overblown, say 150 or more, there can't help but be a negative affect on the main playing core of the team?  Alot of mouths to feed, so to speak, so everyone gets a little less.

I believe that would be up to how the team is managed by the coaching staff and to the individual attitudes of the players who may not ever see the field or even suit up for that matter.  

The 150th player shouldn't be taking reps away from 1st, 2nd or even 3rd team players.  That is a function of how practice is managed by the coaching staff.  But they can/might get some reps as a scout player...  

Depending on their ability and how they mature over their 4 years,  the number of reps and where will vary.   They may never move beyond 2nd or 3rd scout team, or they may develop into a significant role player.   Regardless of how much work they get, if they work as hard as everyone else and are willing to live with their role on the team, I'm not sure how that hurts a team.

[wheels81]

Don't know if it's been pointed out or not but J.Kemper is now suiting up for football with the Thunder after playing the non "contact" sport of basketball.  He is listed as playing TE.  

[Mugsy]

I think the optimal roster size is 90-100. 1st and 2nd team offense, plus 3-5 offensive specialists for 25-28 players. 1st and 2nd team defense, plus 3-5 defensive specialists for 25-28 players. Offensive scout team 18-25 players, Defensive scout team 18-25 players. Kicking specialists (place kicker, punters) 4-6.

If your numbers get much above this, you'll have players standing around during practice with nothing to do. You also need to factor in somewhere between 10-15% of the players will be injured and unable to practice or play on Saturday. This may seem high for August, but is typical for mid-October.

Almost every year there is at least one team devastated by injury. 

In my junior year we lost both starting guards, 1 starting tackle and one of the backup guards before the conference schedule started. 

We were forced to move tackles into guard positions, defensive players to offense, etc...  Add to that a couple of season ending injuries on the defensive side of the ball later in the year, and by the last game we were starting 3rd string linemen.  We were forced to lineup linebackers into defensive line positions on scout team defense.  You can't tell me a small scout team linebacker is going to give as good a look as a defensive tackle to the starting offense. 

I guess I'd go back to my previous point though... it's up to how the coach staff manages the practices and the team.

[footballfan413]

Mugsy,
   You don't have to have 125+ players to get great scout teams and players with great potential who need a few years to mature.  All very important points.  All of those element are present in a 100 man roster. 

[Mugsy]

Mugsy,
   You don't have to have 125+ players to get great scout teams and players with great potential who need a few years to mature.  All very important points.  All of those element are present in a 100 man roster. 

Provided you aren't wiped out by injuries, a 100 man roster should provide the necessary numbers.  I wasn't intending to suggest a particular number.  Rather I was trying to show that if the coach staff manages practices and player expectations appropriately, if there is some JV schedule in place, and if players understand their role (or lack thereof), I don't see the necessity to limit rosters.

I would expect that for most rosters, the numbers are defined by the offseason recruiting performed by the coaches, so to an extent it is a know quantity - as least for the CCIW.  The CCIW coaches have a pretty clear expectation on how many players they will have on the opening day of camp.  You don't see 15% increase in roster based on "walk-ons" in the CCIW or most of D3 for that matter.  Perhaps for teams like Mount Union, there are a reasonable number of walk-ons, but I don't see that as prevailant.

If the coaches have a decent idea on how many they have coming into the season and can therefore be prepared to handle it,  why set a limit? 

[raiderguy]

Mugsy,

I couldn't agree more. Players coming to schools wanting to play football are not walking into some kind of surprise when they get there. They know how many players have been on the roster in the past. They can scout the roster from the prevoius year and can certainly get a feel for what there potential for PT is going to be. If they love the school and love to play football,
if only 'For the Love of the Game" then why should the school tell them they are not welcome for football? If you are willing to practice like everyone else and abide by the team rules why not let them participate. There are plenty of life lessons to be learned from team sports.

I would assume most programs have a pretty good idea of how many they are expecting for fall practice, so they don't have too many surprises that first day. Even walk ons would have to give some indication of their intentions I would think. Anyway no roster limits is MHO.

[diehardfan]

Don't know if it's been pointed out or not but J.Kemper is now suiting up for football with the Thunder after playing the non "contact" sport of basketball.  He is listed as playing TE.  

Fun stuff. Jordan is one heck of a tallented, athletic guy. I've thought highly of him ever since I watched him play garbage minutes in a Wheaton blowout his freshman year in DC.... he just made the other guys look like they were going in slow motion. He really had a breakout year last year, scoring the team high points in six games, and the game high rebounds in sixteen games.  It was fun to see him get some of the recognition he had deserved all along with his 3rd team all-CCIW nod last year. I know he played football in high school. It will be really fun to see how much he can contribute after being gone from the sport for four years. 

[CCIW]

Don't know if it's been pointed out or not but J.Kemper is now suiting up for football with the Thunder after playing the non "contact" sport of basketball.  He is listed as playing TE.  

Kemper is going to find the coaching much more upbeat and logical in football than basketball. Harris, the basketball coach is one strange dude.  Mr. Control Freak ought to be his name.  He takes players out when they are hot to cool them off....yes, that's right.  The OTHER team doesn't have to take a time out to cool an opposing player down...Harris will take his OWN player out.  What a strange, strange man.  No wonder someone wants to play on a team where the coaches are REAL and they are upbeat and have a brain rather than the urge to have ultra-control.     

[RedmenFB44]

I believe that the roster size should be somewhere around 100. I think that would eliminate the quitters that would leave in the first week of camp and the less players out there the more reps your players can get.

Matblake-
Maybe I did misunderstand you but my point is that if your gonna win the CCIW, then every game should be treated as a must win.

GO REDMEN!!!

[ncc58]

2nd or 3rd team Scout Team?

Wow! If you're 3rd team Scout Team, you're spending the last one hour+ standing and watching, and that doesn't help you. From my experience as a defensive scout team player, once you were on the "field," you weren't coming off unless you were seriously injured. This was your chance to gain experience, gain respect from the offensive starters, and catch the attention of the offensive coaches. Of course, you didn't do this by hitting QBs or RBs but by making the OL work, making good reads, and moving quickly to the point of attack.

LBs playing on the defensive line on the Scout Team ....

Not necessarily a bad thing thing to do. The LBs generally are much faster, and would give the OL a different look --- important if you're playing a team with a lot of quicks.

[matblake]

I think that if a kid wants to attend a school and play football there he should be able to.  Limiting roster sizes simply limits participation, which is supposed to be one of the ideals of D3.  It's my opinion that there are more kids wanting to play football than the 23,166 roster spots that would be available if you limited all 234 D3 members to 99 spots.  In addition, some schools have limits due to religious affiliation, academic levels, or can be quite expensive.  That makes the pool of available roster spots even smaller to some individuals.  Due to the fact that I think most D3 schools are regional in nature, you might have some kids that are willing to go somewhere else to play football, but someone else who knows what school they want to attend will not have that opportunity.

[raiderguy]

Since we are on the subject of limiting rosters...what if you are a sophomore + and you are caught in the roster crunch?

You are established in the school now....they got your money..... and now you are told we only have room for 100 so you are pushed off the team because of some unknown freshman coming in. How does that effect roster limit discussions?

Really doesn't seem fair. You obviously have gone through one season and you are planning to come back for your second...third...fourth year. Now what?

[79jaybird]

Besides  Elmhurst @ UW Whitewater and IWU @ Benedictine,  anybody know of any other CCIW scrimmages this Saturday?

[Mugsy]

I believe Wheaton is supposed to scrimmage at Wabash this weekend.