FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Cardinal773]

In the "Last Team Standing" section...

Pat: North Central. Probably completely in a scorched-earth manner, frankly.


Um.  Yes please.  I was kind of offended when NC went for it instead of going for field goals when playing North Park.  I was embarrassed a little when NC went for it on 4th down  and later punched it in with about 2 minutes left in the Augie game.  But if the Cardinals have a chance to rub it in a little extra in this year's tourney, I'm cool with it.

[CardsFan1988]

One stat I don't think has gotten enough attention - NCC is averaging 10.2 yards per play. That leads the country by 2.5 yards per play. That's the same gap as the second play team (Berry I think) leads the 70th place team. Pretty mind boggling. Obviously that will come down a bit in the playoffs but I remember being wowed when they averaged 8 yards per play going into the playoffs last year and they raised that by 25%! Pretty incredible!

[robertgoulet]

In the "Last Team Standing" section...

Pat: North Central. Probably completely in a scorched-earth manner, frankly.


Um.  Yes please.  I was kind of offended when NC went for it instead of going for field goals when playing North Park.  I was embarrassed a little when NC went for it on 4th down  and later punched it in with about 2 minutes left in the Augie game.  But if the Cardinals have a chance to rub it in a little extra in this year's tourney, I'm cool with it.

I did not realize this and it is wild from Logan Hansen: "North Central currently has the highest rating my model has ever seen, going back to 1997."

[USee]

Several D3 records are being shattered this season in this league:

Most yards Offensive yds per play: Record-2008 Mt Union 8.2; North Central currently at 10.2
QB Efficiency: Record-2009 Mt Union 223 Eff: Luke Lehnen currently 287 Eff
Fewest interceptions (minimum 300 attempts): 2013 UWW QB Matt Behrendt 1 INT in 481 att. Ben Thorson currently with 0.
Most TD's to Incompletion %: I have no idea how to look this up (it is captured in the efficiency number) but I am quite confident no one has EVER seen 35 incompletions and 34 TD's

Pretty incredible stuff in the CCIW. I would add that the 10.2 yds per play number comes in a year where the CCIW is stronger than it was a year ago. NCC made the league look not very competitive and that's certainly what their NCAA playoff opponents hope is the case (they haven't seen out defense). To some degree that's true as there are no top 20 defenses in the CCIW this year. But that's in part because of what NCC has done to every team. The Cardinals are certainly going to be facing some much tougher defensive teams in these playoffs than have seen to date, but I am also very confident in saying there isn't a team in the country outside of this leauge that has had to defend an offense like this.  I have a feeling we may end up looking at this offense as the best ever in D3 and the entire division isn't going to look very competitive on a relative basis. The story isn't finished yet.

[bleedpurple]

I totally get that offensively, this NCC team dominated the CCIW like no team has ever dominated a conference ever. What intrigues me is the why behind it. For example, another stat I saw is that over half of their touchdowns are for 20 plus yards. So HOW does that happen. Is Lehnen the best quarterback in the history of D-III? Are the NCC receivers NFL caliber? Could the offensive line start at Ohio State? Are the schemes so dynamic and confusing to defenses that someone is always running free? I've heard enough of the "WOW" stats that I am intrigued as to HOW they are doing it.

[USee]

I don't think it's a state secret as to HOW. Bigger, stronger, faster is the short answer. The question is: "Is the CCIW worse or has NCC gotten that much better"? I suspect the talent gap in the CCIW has widened with NCC mostly because they are getting better people but it's probably also true the rest of the league hasn't kept up. Is that true for the rest of the country? Bout to find out (though I have my suspicions).

[bleedpurple]

I don't think it's a state secret as to HOW. Bigger, stronger, faster is the short answer. The question is: "Is the CCIW worse or has NCC gotten that much better"? I suspect the talent gap in the CCIW has widened with NCC mostly because they are getting better people but it's probably also true the rest of the league hasn't kept up. Is that true for the rest of the country? Bout to find out (though I have my suspicions).

Hmmm. Bigger, stronger, faster. 10.2 yards per play to 8.2 yards per play last year. That's huge gains in one year.  Those guys must have monster workouts. Maybe they have a cutting edge nutritionist.

[CardsFan1988]

I don't think it's a state secret as to HOW. Bigger, stronger, faster is the short answer. The question is: "Is the CCIW worse or has NCC gotten that much better"? I suspect the talent gap in the CCIW has widened with NCC mostly because they are getting better people but it's probably also true the rest of the league hasn't kept up. Is that true for the rest of the country? Bout to find out (though I have my suspicions).

Hmmm. Bigger, stronger, faster. 10.2 yards per play to 8.2 yards per play last year. That's huge gains in one year.  Those guys must have monster workouts. Maybe they have a cutting edge nutritionist.

A couple big changes this year.

1. The wide receiver core is significantly deeper. Last year, due to injuries it was Hardy and then not much. The second, third and fourth receivers were all lost to season ending injuries and NCC was forced to use cornerback Nic Rummell as their second option. This year their second and third receivers are both transfers from scholarship programs that can punish teams for putting too much attention on Hardy.

2. Lehnen has improved significantly as a passer. The ball comes out of his hand better, the timing is better, the zip is better. It felt like his first couple years that ball would flutter on him at times and he'd miss the occassional deep shot with overthrows. This year it's just more crisp and the deep ball has improved.

3. The running game is different. In years past they used Greenfield to bludgeon teams with 6, 7, 8 yards every play. This year, they don't have as much power in the backfield but they are more explosive. They have two backs (including Sacco) that average over 11 yards per carry who can bounce runs and show breakaway speed. They use 3 backs almost interchangeably that are all really tough to stop and hit a lot more home runs than in years past.

4. At this level, Deangelo Hardy is a cheat code. He averages a touchdown every 3 times he touches the ball. When all else fails, just get the ball to 6.

It's definitely a little different offense than it was the last few years. It remains to be seen how it will hold up against better defenses in the playoffs when some of the big plays may be limited. That said, if I were betting I'd bet you'll need at least 30 points to beat them.

[NCC2010]

I don't think it's a state secret as to HOW. Bigger, stronger, faster is the short answer. The question is: "Is the CCIW worse or has NCC gotten that much better"? I suspect the talent gap in the CCIW has widened with NCC mostly because they are getting better people but it's probably also true the rest of the league hasn't kept up. Is that true for the rest of the country? Bout to find out (though I have my suspicions).

Hmmm. Bigger, stronger, faster. 10.2 yards per play to 8.2 yards per play last year. That's huge gains in one year.  Those guys must have monster workouts. Maybe they have a cutting edge nutritionist.

A couple big changes this year.

1. The wide receiver core is significantly deeper. Last year, due to injuries it was Hardy and then not much. The second, third and fourth receivers were all lost to season ending injuries and NCC was forced to use cornerback Nic Rummell as their second option. This year their second and third receivers are both transfers from scholarship programs that can punish teams for putting too much attention on Hardy.

2. Lehnen has improved significantly as a passer. The ball comes out of his hand better, the timing is better, the zip is better. It felt like his first couple years that ball would flutter on him at times and he'd miss the occassional deep shot with overthrows. This year it's just more crisp and the deep ball has improved.

3. The running game is different. In years past they used Greenfield to bludgeon teams with 6, 7, 8 yards every play. This year, they don't have as much power in the backfield but they are more explosive. They have two backs (including Sacco) that average over 11 yards per carry who can bounce runs and show breakaway speed. They use 3 backs almost interchangeably that are all really tough to stop and hit a lot more home runs than in years past.

4. At this level, Deangelo Hardy is a cheat code. He averages a touchdown every 3 times he touches the ball. When all else fails, just get the ball to 6.

It's definitely a little different offense than it was the last few years. It remains to be seen how it will hold up against better defenses in the playoffs when some of the big plays may be limited. That said, if I were betting I'd bet you'll need at least 30 points to beat them.

Points 1 and 3 of this are the big change over last year imo.  WR core is significantly better surrounding Hardy.   None of the RBs are as good as Greenfield was but all of them have better long speed. With the holes this line opens up, they are able to take advantage in a way Greenie did not against weaker competition.  However, Greenfield's running style was definitely better when it came to facing the tougher competition as his ability to break tackles was far superior, as was his vision.  So, will be interesting to see how these backs fair in the playoffs when they will be forced to break more tackles and the holes arent as gaping.  Also helps that the LT is the reigning 2 time CCIW lineman of the year, and the LG is in his 3 straight season starting and the center is in his 4th straight season starting.  Those 3 lineman and Lehnen have all now played roughly 40 games together and have amassed so much experience.

Will also mention that the defense is not as good as last year and i am very interested to see how they hold up against the better offenses in the playoffs.

[UWO Titan 78]

One thing that can't be overstated as to why the gap increases for North Central is the amount of practice and game reps that they get. I remember when I was young and there weren't as many bowl games, D1 coaches always used to say making a bowl was so important because you got to practice an extra month and those reps are invaluable. Look at Mount and Whitewater when they were making Stagg runs to play each other every year. They got 5 extra weeks of practice and games compared to others in their conference year after year. North Central has more talent than anybody in the CCIW, and it isn't close. Add to it that they get 5 more weeks of practice to hone their skills, work on timing, get more cohesive as an offensive line, etc. Other CCIW players will be home enjoying Thanksgiving and Christmas while North Central will likely be getting extra practice and game reps for the next 5 weeks. This doesn't only help the starters. The ascending players get to compete against the best D3 players in the country and get better every week. The good teams earn the right to continue to play, but it does provide a tremendous advantage in the development of 18-22 year olds and it does make it harder for lesser teams to close the gap. If a team makes two consecutive Stagg Bowls, they get 10 extra weeks of practice and game reps. That's an extra "season" for those players to develop.

[bleedpurple]

I don't think it's a state secret as to HOW. Bigger, stronger, faster is the short answer. The question is: "Is the CCIW worse or has NCC gotten that much better"? I suspect the talent gap in the CCIW has widened with NCC mostly because they are getting better people but it's probably also true the rest of the league hasn't kept up. Is that true for the rest of the country? Bout to find out (though I have my suspicions).

Hmmm. Bigger, stronger, faster. 10.2 yards per play to 8.2 yards per play last year. That's huge gains in one year.  Those guys must have monster workouts. Maybe they have a cutting edge nutritionist.

A couple big changes this year.

1. The wide receiver core is significantly deeper. Last year, due to injuries it was Hardy and then not much. The second, third and fourth receivers were all lost to season ending injuries and NCC was forced to use cornerback Nic Rummell as their second option. This year their second and third receivers are both transfers from scholarship programs that can punish teams for putting too much attention on Hardy.

2. Lehnen has improved significantly as a passer. The ball comes out of his hand better, the timing is better, the zip is better. It felt like his first couple years that ball would flutter on him at times and he'd miss the occassional deep shot with overthrows. This year it's just more crisp and the deep ball has improved.

3. The running game is different. In years past they used Greenfield to bludgeon teams with 6, 7, 8 yards every play. This year, they don't have as much power in the backfield but they are more explosive. They have two backs (including Sacco) that average over 11 yards per carry who can bounce runs and show breakaway speed. They use 3 backs almost interchangeably that are all really tough to stop and hit a lot more home runs than in years past.

4. At this level, Deangelo Hardy is a cheat code. He averages a touchdown every 3 times he touches the ball. When all else fails, just get the ball to 6.

It's definitely a little different offense than it was the last few years. It remains to be seen how it will hold up against better defenses in the playoffs when some of the big plays may be limited. That said, if I were betting I'd bet you'll need at least 30 points to beat them.

Points 1 and 3 of this are the big change over last year imo.  WR core is significantly better surrounding Hardy.   None of the RBs are as good as Greenfield was but all of them have better long speed. With the holes this line opens up, they are able to take advantage in a way Greenie did not against weaker competition.  However, Greenfield's running style was definitely better when it came to facing the tougher competition as his ability to break tackles was far superior, as was his vision.  So, will be interesting to see how these backs fair in the playoffs when they will be forced to break more tackles and the holes arent as gaping.  Also helps that the LT is the reigning 2 time CCIW lineman of the year, and the LG is in his 3 straight season starting and the center is in his 4th straight season starting.  Those 3 lineman and Lehnen have all now played roughly 40 games together and have amassed so much experience.

Will also mention that the defense is not as good as last year and i am very interested to see how they hold up against the better offenses in the playoffs.

Good stuff. Thank you, guys! Would love for our guys to have the opportunity to see how we fare against them, but we've got some work to do. Three tough ones to get there.

[CarollFan]

the All-CCIW teams just announced.  Congrats to all the recipients!

https://cciw.org/news/2023/11/14/all-cciw-football-selections-announced.aspx

Congrats to all these award winners, many deserving recipients. In particular Martin Egbo for NCC, he made dramatic improvements throughout the season and was quite dominant down the stretch. And Luke Lehnen, 35 incompletions and 34 TD's if video game numbers. Wow.

That said, I don't remember ever complaining about any of these picks. This year, I have one beef that I feel compelled to share. I don't know how this works but usually the first team is the first team and all the others get packed into the second team. This year, for whatever reason, Carroll's QB was somehow awarded co-first team with Lehnen. Now, I don't know the kid and have nothing against him but if there should have been a co-first team QB (I don't remember this happening previously) it should have been Wheaton's Ben Thorson. Here are the numbers:

Ben Thorson (9-1) 205-294-0 INT, 30 TD's, 70% completion, 2,598 yds, 178 QBR
Josh Raby (5-5) 200-337-5 INT, 26 TD's, 59% completion, 2,697 yds, 149 QBR

I can't remember a CCIW quarterback with that many completions/TD's and zero interception. It certainly has never happened at Wheaton, and they have a long history of AA QB's. Diving a little deeper (which isn't hard to do), here are the stats in the 4 biggest games for these two (NCC, Augie, WashU, Carr/Whea)

Ben Thorson: (3-1) 91-139-0 INT, 16 TD's, 66% completion,1,169 yds
Rosh Raby: (0-4)  77-147-3 INT, 5 TD's, 52% completion, 1,064 yds

And head to head:

Ben Thorson: 22-28-0 INT, 6 TD's, 79% completion, 273 yds
Josh Raby: 8-19-0 INT, 0 TD, 42% completion, 81 yds

If Raby had been named 2nd team along with Thorson, fine, you would not have heard from me. But somehow elevating him over Thorson and equal to Lehnen is egregious.

And I think Coach Rooker got robbed. They can name 2 1st team QB's they certainly could have done Co-COY. Weak move.

Ok. I've said my peace. Congrats to all the winners!

They don't use the results from just 4 games to evaluate the players at each position for All-CCIW.     
They are using the results from all the games they played.   
You start picking stats for a few games here and there at every position and you can end up making cases to switch a bunch of players around on the All-CCIW teams.

You may pick and choose which stats you think are the most important over the 10 games for selecting a All-CCIW player at a position, like you are mentioning interceptions for QB's.  It may not align with the people making the decisions. 
People usually pick the stats that help them tell the story they want to tell.

Here's an example of stats I'll pick:
Here are the top 3 players for total yardage (passing and rushing) in the conference thru 10 games.

   Player                                       Rush  Pass     Total    
1   Lehnen, Luke (North Central)   452   2,457   2,909   
2   Raby,Josh (Carroll)                 104    2,697    2,801   
3   Thorson,Ben (Wheaton)           -11   2,598   2,587   

If you're going to evaluate QB's I don't think you should ignore their rushing stats as it's part of their overall productivity. 
You also show Josh with 26 passing TD's but he also had 6 rushing TD's. 

Luke is number 1 in total yardage with 2,909 total yards. 
Josh Raby had 2,801 total yards.  He had 104 rushing yards. Josh led the conference with 2,697 passing yards which is also a Carroll single season record. He is second behind Luke in total yardage, trailing Luke by 108 yards.

I'll add that Josh put up these numbers with Carroll having 1 All-CCIW (2nd team) OL.                                           
NCC has 4 All-CCIW OL's.                                                                                                                                       
Wheaton has 3 All-CCIW OL's.

I don't know why they have two 1rst team QB's. There is alot conversation on the message board about talent discrepancy between the top tier teams to the other teams in the CCIW.         
Maybe when a QB from a middle tier team puts up big numbers that's something that's taking into consideration. Last year they had CO-DPOY.   

Good luck to Luke and Ben in the playoffs and congratulations to all the players selected for All-CCIW.

(And yes I know Carroll is misspelled in CarollFan.  Typing too fast and too lazy to figure out how to correct.)

[USee]

Hey CarollFan- Welcome to the board. I welcome the disagreement. If the only result of my post is the addition of another Carroll poster, I deem it a worthwhile exercise. (By the way, since you seem to value accuracy, Ben Thorson has 3 rushing TD's). 

[robertgoulet]

Barn burner in Wheaton. Hope the Thunder can pull it out

[New Tradition]

So quiet in here lately!  Especially with 2 teams in the second round of the playoffs!  What gives?  I get nobody wanting to come on to talk about NCC and thereby risking the wrath of Greg, but nobody wants to talk about the stellar performance Gio Weeks and the Wheaton o-line had down the stretch on Saturday? 

To stay on the good side of Mr. East Viking, I'll focus my post on Bellhaven.  I wanted to take a moment to tip my hat to them and highlight what a class program Coach McCorkle has built.  In their first trip to the DIII playoffs, they got the draw of coming to Naperville and ending up on the wrong side of a 65-0 score, and in spite of that, could not have been any more gracious and classy.  I had a chance to speak with Coach McCorkle's father, who approached me after the game in a mostly empty Championship Plaza, because he wanted to tell me how much he enjoyed the trip and how impressed he was by the 2023 Cardinals.  He then wished us luck the rest of the way.  I want to reiterate that it's not like we were stuck in an elevator together and this conversation was forced.  He felt compelled to come up to me and let us know how he felt (and since there is no booth camera this year, I look like any other fan.  No suit last Saturday). 

Shortly after that, I ended up walking side-by-side with a Bellhaven player as he made his way from the stadium to the Res-Rec center where the visitor's locker room was.  This man could not have had a bigger smile on his face.  After congratulating him on a stellar season and getting his program a playoff berth, I asked how many years he had left to play.  Without the smile waning 1 iota, he told me that he had just played his last game.  I couldn't believe it.  I remember how absolutely wrecked I felt after our ouster in the first round in 2005.  But this (former) player was beaming with pride at what his team had just accomplished.  He was polite and listened attentively as I told him that I was in his exact position 18 years ago, and that the magnitude of what his group had accomplished will eventually sink in, and that he and his class had laid the groundwork for the future success and tradition of the program.  I wished him luck with his post-Bellhaven life and we parted with his smile maybe even a little bigger than at the start of the conversation. 

If these people represent where Coach McCorkle came from and the types of student-athlete that make up his program, I see continued success for the Blazers in future years.  Congrats to them on an excellent season.