FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[NuTS]

To the best of my knowledge there are only 2 states that have STATE sponsored DIII Schools - New Jersey and Wisconsin.  (UW Parkside competes in DII, which is where they all belong IMHO).

And as far as scholarships go - well, we all know how that works.  The Wisconsin State sponsored schools have tremendous resources for financial aid, grants, work study, etc. not to mention money to spend on facilities, equipment, and all the frills money can buy.  Very attractive to recruits.  Not all of the "inducements" used to attract athletes are called scholarships. 

The kids from these programs work just as hard as the other DIII athletes and deserve their due.  All I'm saying is the WIAC programs are playing by a different set of rules.  They should be ashamed to compete at this level.

[79jaybird]

Mr. B-- not a problem and I too am a friend of Coach Pethtel.  I talked with him prior to the season and think he is just what NPU needs.
I don't think measuring/judging North Park can be done with wins/losses right now, given their circumstances.
If you must judge, I think you have to look at roster #'s, quality of the recruits, and overall how the North Park team is improving.
To throw my 2 cents in,  I personally don't like having the WIAC or Mt. Union in Division III but where else are you going to put these schools?  Mt. Union is dominant in football, however other sports they are just another member of that conf.  This is a debate that has pro's/con's for both sides.  If I have to say yeh/neh  I would say WIAC belongs in Division III.

[usee]

north park-looks like the 30th "transition" year in a row for this group. another coaching change coming??

Usee, it's the third game for the new Viking coaching staff.  It's a bit early to start on that tack, don't you think?

I have no doubt this is a good staff. my point is that several good head coaches have given up at north park. its not far fetched.

[HScoach]

It's tough to say how their defense is playing, not only since I haven't seen them play, but because I don't think MacMurray and Baldwin-Wallace are considered especially good offensive teams.

From a historical perspective, Baldwin Wallace has never been a strong offensive team.  Even when they were good they did it with defense.  As an OAC guy, I was really surprised to see Augie loose to Baldwin Wallace since BW has been on a death sprial from good to average to poor the last few years in the OAC.  In fact for the OAC Pick Em's, I had the spread on that game as BW (+38.5) based on the conventional wisdom of where both teams were headed.  Not sure what this means about Augie, but to reinforce where BW might fall in the OAC this year, they only beat Wilmington 14-0 this Saturday.  This is the same Wilmington team that has yet to score a single point thru it's first 3 games.  Also the same Wilma team whose only win will be over Heidelberg which has lost 28 games in a row 

[Pat Coleman]

To the best of my knowledge there are only 2 states that have STATE sponsored DIII Schools - New Jersey and Wisconsin.  (UW Parkside competes in DII, which is where they all belong IMHO).

Check out New York, Massachusetts, New Hampshire and Texas. That's just off the top of my head. Probably another one or two.

[Pat Coleman]

And as far as scholarships go - well, we all know how that works.  The Wisconsin State sponsored schools have tremendous resources for financial aid, grants, work study, etc. not to mention money to spend on facilities, equipment, and all the frills money can buy.  Very attractive to recruits.  Not all of the "inducements" used to attract athletes are called scholarships. 

The kids from these programs work just as hard as the other DIII athletes and deserve their due.  All I'm saying is the WIAC programs are playing by a different set of rules.  They should be ashamed to compete at this level.

Your allegations are baseless and meaningless.

The only real benefit they have is the fact that they CAN have better facilities -- if the state coughs up the dough. I've been to many, many state schools who have horrible facilities.

You're going to have to come with something better than the same old take on state schools, new guy. It's all been said.

[Goal Line Stand]

To the best of my knowledge there are only 2 states that have STATE sponsored DIII Schools - New Jersey and Wisconsin.  (UW Parkside competes in DII, which is where they all belong IMHO).

And as far as scholarships go - well, we all know how that works.  The Wisconsin State sponsored schools have tremendous resources for financial aid, grants, work study, etc. not to mention money to spend on facilities, equipment, and all the frills money can buy.  Very attractive to recruits.  Not all of the "inducements" used to attract athletes are called scholarships. 

The kids from these programs work just as hard as the other DIII athletes and deserve their due.  All I'm saying is the WIAC programs are playing by a different set of rules.  They should be ashamed to compete at this level.

I know quite a few players that were recruited by CCIW schools and there was alot of "academic $," offered that brought the tuition down to more of a public school price tag.  Public schools have ZERO money to play.  Private schools have their own "different set of rules!"  I think all some of these public schools would love to know where all the "tremedous resources and $ for frills," is!  And you mean to tell me that student of private schools aren't eligible for financial aid, grant and work studies???  
         "They should be ashamed to compete at this level?"  WOW, pretty harsh statement just because Aggie took a loss to a WIAC team!  

[usee]

It's tough to say how their defense is playing, not only since I haven't seen them play, but because I don't think MacMurray and Baldwin-Wallace are considered especially good offensive teams.

From a historical perspective, Baldwin Wallace has never been a strong offensive team.  Even when they were good they did it with defense.  As an OAC guy, I was really surprised to see Augie loose to Baldwin Wallace since BW has been on a death sprial from good to average to poor the last few years in the OAC.  In fact for the OAC Pick Em's, I had the spread on that game as BW (+38.5) based on the conventional wisdom of where both teams were headed.  Not sure what this means about Augie, but to reinforce where BW might fall in the OAC this year, they only beat Wilmington 14-0 this Saturday.  This is the same Wilmington team that has yet to score a single point thru it's first 3 games.  Also the same Wilma team whose only win will be over Heidelberg which has lost 28 games in a row 

ouch. here's hoping we all over rated augie. otherwise the cciw is in trouble come playoff time

[NuTS]

Even though I appear to be just a beginner, I have been reading this site and the posts for the last six years, I have simply not posted until now.  Thanks for the warm welcome.

My allegations are based on what based on what a UW Whitewater coach told my son and I on a visit to the college. 

I did not mean to question you, Pat.  Based on what you have said in the past, I have great respect for your opinion.  With regard this debate it simply does not match mine.   We will have to agree to disagree on this matter because you will not change my opinion regarding the WIAC.

By the way Goal Line Stand, I was quite happy to see Augie lose again regardless of who beats them.

[Redmen96]

I live in New York and there are state schools that compete in D-3 the achro is SUNY  (State University of New York)  it is very similar system to UW.  Some SUNY schools are Cortland, Alfred, Buffalo State and there are others.

[diehardfan]

some good thoughts April, from a fan living so far away!!

Since I know you and many others here used to think of me as the idiotic sister of a DE whom you were SURE was not going to start his senior year (actually, there's probably many who still do), thanks for the compliment. It's nice to know that my thoughts don't always fall on deaf ears. This board sure has changed a lot in the last several years...

Between listening to IWU, NCC, Wheaton and Elmhurst games, live stats, game stories, and boxscores and whatnot, it's surprisingly easy to stay in touch with the game despite being far away. I almost think it's easier to get an overall feel for the league when you can tune into multiple schools instead of being there at one game... though it's not nearly as fun!!!

On a completely unrelated note, I've been looking at a ton of stats this afternoon, and I must say, I love this drive summary from Saturday's game.

      H 1-10 H30   HOPE drive start at 07:15 (2nd).
      H 1-10 H30   David Booko rush for no gain to the HOPE30.
      H 2-10 H30   Jake Manning pass complete to Kevin VandenBos for 8 yards to the HOPE38.
      H 3-2  H38   Jake Manning pass complete to Joey Goeb for 7 yards to the HOPE45,
                   1ST DOWN HOPE.
      H 1-10 H45   Jake Manning pass complete to Joey Goeb for 12 yards to the WHEATON43,
                   1ST DOWN HOPE.
      H 1-10 W43   Jake Manning pass complete to Joey Goeb for 4 yards to the WHEATON39.
      H 2-6  W39   Jake Manning pass complete to Doug VanEerden for 13 yards to the WHEATON26,
                   1ST DOWN HOPE.
      H 1-10 W26   Timeout Wheaton College, clock 03:53.
      H 1-10 W26   David Booko rush for 1 yard to the WHEATON25.
      H 2-9  W25   Jake Manning pass incomplete.
      H 3-9  W25   Jake Manning pass incomplete.
      H 4-9  W25   Jake Manning pass incomplete.
--------------- 10 plays, 45 yards, TOP 04:26 ---------------

That must have been one heck of a timeout!

[diehardfan]

on Wheaton:
I wouldn't worry about their pass defense. they have played a couple teams that pass quite a bit. that will balance out. I worry more about them going against teams with strong running attacks. they might be fine but their defense is so athletic we just haven't seen how good they are against the run. we will find out a week from tomorrow vs wallick and company.

I've been sitting here looking at stats for Wheaton pass defense in comparison to how our opponents have done against other schools... here's what I have so far

Hope

Receiving Yardage
241 vs depauw
206 vs central
346 vs wheaton

attempts-completed-interceptions
42-18-3 vs depauw
35-17-2 vs central
58-22-1 vs wheaton

completion percentages -
43% vs depauw
49% vs central
38% vs wheaton

yrds per completion -
13.4 vs depauw
12.1 vs central
15.7 vs wheaton

Albion

Total Receiving Yardage-
271 vs butler
112 vs thiel
222 vs wheaton

attempts-completed-interceptions-
29-20-0 vs butler
21-10-1 vs thiel
33-12-0 vs wheaton

completion percentages -
69% vs butler
48% vs thiel
36% vs wheaton

yrds per completion -
13.6% vs butler
9.3 vs thiel
18.5% vs wheaton

Wash U

Total Receiving Yardage-
215 vs westminster
134 vs NCC
202 vs lake forest
162 vs wheaton

attempts-completed-interceptions-
19-13-0 vs westminster
40-18-1 vs NCC
30-18-2 vs lake forest
26-15-3 vs wheaton

completion percentages -
68% vs westminster
45% vs NCC
60% vs lake forest
58% vs wheaton

yrds per completion -
16.5 vs westminster
7.4 vs NCC
11.2 vs lake forest
10.8 vs wheaton

What do you think that says? I'm not entirely sure, and obviously it would help a lot to get input of people who've actually been at games. I'm wondering if it's possible that our opponent completion percentage is deflated from our opponent's QB feeing hurried by our strong DL... other than that it doesn't look like our pass coverage (from DBs?) and help after missed tackles is very good in comparison to some significantly less good teams than us? Central is the only other ranked opponent, but they're not the only school that has better stats than us in this area.

Incidentally, I'm still not sure exactly what you meant usee... punctuation and capitals at the beginning and end of complete sentences is useful in getting a point across.

[RedmenFB44]

jaybird-

Is your starting QB still hurt or did he play this weekend? I am very intersted to see what both teams do this weekend. I know Carthage has some injuries and I know you have mentioned that Elmhurst is not 100%. Should be a very physical game!

Time for some tough CCIW play. It's about time!

[diehardfan]

2.  Zack Ullrich fumbling.  He had two in today's game.  I believe that he had one in the Albion game.  Three fumbles with not that many snaps is not a good sign.

You're sure it's two? The stat sheet only has one recorded, but that could very well be wrong. Ullrich actually had two in the Albion, but he fell on one of them (still for a big loss though, and wheaton had to punt, if I remember correctly). And yeah.... that's a lot of fumbles for not a lot on snaps, even if it was only one in each game.

wheaton is on track but i am concerned they haven't done a good job finishing games. they continue to lose the turnover  battle. they are turning it over less but their defense isn't creating many takeaways, which is a concern given everyone's assessment their defense is really good. great defenses create turnovers. lots of them. we haven't seen enough vs. teams that run riskier offenses (passing teams). the jury is still out on the thunder.

I'm not worried about the Thunder finishing games... I don't know about yesterday, but our backups have been going in toward the end of games, and for the most part have done a very respectable job... but they are the backups... I'm not sure if our first string has been scored on at all? I guess my thoughts are similar to this...

Glad to see Wheaton win, though I think it is a concern that Hope was able to post 21 points on the Thunder late.

I didn't see the game, but I'm not sure I'd be too concerned about 2 TD's when the game has already been decided.  35-7 and then 2 late TD's...

Yes Hope threw for 340+ yards, but on 58 attempts and only 22 completions.  Hopefully someone who attended the game can give some insight.  As usee noted, interesting that Chupp & Ullrick split time and had virtually the same stats in the first half.

Incidentally, while all the other numbers are identical.... since Chupp didn't fumble or get an interception... their stats aren't really virtually even, are they? 

[diehardfan]

Alright, now on to Augie.

diehard,

To answer your question about does Augie really need to play a varied game, I would say yes. I watched 25 or so games in the last 4 years (while I was there) and they could get away with that in conference for the most part, but when they faced good or great teams (Wheaton, MUC, NCC (last year and 2004)) they struggled big time (especially when they got down 10 or more in any of those games). In order to get back to what many Augie fans think is there potential (the mid 80s) they are going to have to move with the times, and the times say you need to be able to air the ball out with some moderate success.

And the question about the BW loss, I feel that isn't as big of a deal as it seems. They have lost non-conference games at home the previous 2 seasons (Central in OT in 2005 and UW Stevens Point in 2004) and they were playing to make the playoffs, or were in the playoffs, the last game of the season in those 2 years. Now if they lose a game early in the CCIW season then the red flag will probably go up. They should have won that game (YES!!!) but they can't let that game carry over at all (because as we all know the CCIW champ gets the auto bid, and they should focus on that).

While it's true that Augie has lost before, those two are arguably much better teams. I was hoping that BW would end up being on the upswing this year... but it sounds they they aren't. And (obviously you didn't know this at the time) but it was only one team each year.

There are major things to be concerned about for Augie now. i definitely wouldn't so far as saying that they might be heading toward a losing season like someone said earlier... but that may be more to the fact that I don't see any other teams looking strong right now besides Wheaton. Augie may get some games by being a "lesser of two down years" thing.

What really frustrates me about the record the CCIW has, is that we don't have an extremely well established group of people who think that this conference is something special. In the daily dose, after Augie's BW loss, and NCC's WLU some of the gurus have noted that they think they need to reevaluate whether the CCIW really deserves to have ranked teams.  I personally just think it's a down year for the conference. While I'm feeling good about Wheaton winning the title, I'm a little worried about us (or whoever comes out of the league) being ready for the teams they'll face in the post season. 

As I look ahead it the conference season, the CCIW looks something like this

1. Wheaton
2-7. (in alphabetical order) Augie, Carthage, Elmhurst, IWU, Millikin, NCC
8. NPU



Pfew...  okay, now I'm done.