FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[usee]

Winning two road playoff games does a lot for the credibility too.

good point pat. one could argue carthage's 1st experience in the post season 2 yrs ago is what gave the cciw its strong reputation. a 1st time playoff team winning on the road vs alma and then at wooster before taking MUC to the 4th quarter. thats better than the school from naperville or decatur has done. arguably its a candidate for the best performance in the post season by a cciw school (since augie and wheaton both won home playoff games before losing to muc). 

there is no question carthage is in a defining year as it relates to the top or middle of the conference and the sustainability of their program. If they compete for the conference title this year they will be expected to be in the hunt for the next several. if they don't, then 2004 was a fluke. elmhurst is in a statement year much like the nperville school was a couple years ago. elmhurst has a chance to prove it has the ability to compete for a conf title. they have a defense that is good enough but i think their offense isn't there yet. we will know a lot more after saturday night.

[usee]

playing up in kenosha in and of itself isn't a big deal. its changing your routine for a night game and the carthage defense that is the biggest problem to adjust to. If given a choice, i would much rather face elmhurst's defense than carthage's defense with a new quarterback. Simply because the carthage defense is pressure based package and if you haven't seen it live you cannot prepare for it adequately. elmhurst is a base defense with mixed in pressure and really good cover corners. its not that hard to adjust to, they just play it very well.

thats why i give carthage the edge up in kenosha.

[RedmenFB44]

Winning two road playoff games does a lot for the credibility too.

You don't see a team in the CCIW make the playoffs and have to go on the road 3 straight times, when they should have had one home game, and win 2 of them and put up a fight with the D-3 powerhouse. 11-2 and 7-3 would put them in the top 4 in my eyes. When Elmhurst gets into the playoffs and has consistant winning seasons, then they should be in the top 4 debat. But who cares its getting closer to Saturday where the magic happens 

[usee]

I agree. elmhurst is currently a pretender on the outside looking in. 6 of 8 teams have made the playoffs from the cciw since 2000. the two that haven't are North Park and Elmhurst. If they want to be considered championship caliber they need to start playing like. A win against an undefeated carthage team in kenosha saturday night is the 1st step.

Carthage proved it can compete at a high level. their battle now is whether they can do it consistently. A win vs an undefeated Elmhurst team will keep them on track. they also have significant road game at augie and home games against naperville and wheaton will tell the tale. their path this year is as easy as it gets with the schedule allowing the toughest games at home (except augie).

[NCC_alum62]

thanks for the info on NPU all...sorry I got to it so late my new job is killing me.  I definetly think that if NPU could retain thier players over four years and recruit better with thier new facilities they could make an Elmhurst like turn-around in this decade.  Not really sure though because they seem to have all the recruiting pieces except a winning season in order to get those first couple classes in.  I went to NCC in 01 becasue in 00 they went 5-5 and were shoing improvement and then with the coaching switch and upgrades they got better and better classes in.

[ncc58]

LOL... and now it's 3 vs 1.... if we can get usee and Jim to join in, Card Alum is going to be running for his momma

I am incredibly upset with the lack of support from my fellow Cardinals.  Here I am getting abused by a bunch of WHEATIES, 10 days before the Bell remains in it's comfortable surrounding of Naperville!

We're using all our energy getting ready for NPU .... yeah right.

We don't want to use all our ammo. Come Saturday night, we'll get excited about Wheaton.

[ncc58]

playing up in kenosha in and of itself isn't a big deal. its changing your routine for a night game and the carthage defense that is the biggest problem to adjust to. If given a choice, i would much rather face elmhurst's defense than carthage's defense with a new quarterback. Simply because the carthage defense is pressure based package and if you haven't seen it live you cannot prepare for it adequately. elmhurst is a base defense with mixed in pressure and really good cover corners. its not that hard to adjust to, they just play it very well.

thats why i give carthage the edge up in kenosha.

Playing at night in Kenosha is probably easier on the team than playing during the day. I'm assuming that Elmhurst will travel on the day of the game. It's probably close to a 90 minute bus ride, so they would  leave their campus at close to 8am for an afternoon game but 2 or 3pm for a night game. No excuse not for every player to get a good night's rest, time for a time meal and team meetings befor leaving for Kenosha.

[ncc58]

thanks for the info on NPU all...sorry I got to it so late my new job is killing me.  I definetly think that if NPU could retain thier players over four years and recruit better with thier new facilities they could make an Elmhurst like turn-around in this decade.  Not really sure though because they seem to have all the recruiting pieces except a winning season in order to get those first couple classes in.  I went to NCC in 01 becasue in 00 they went 5-5 and were shoing improvement and then with the coaching switch and upgrades they got better and better classes in.

Just curious .... For all of those heralding the return to respectability of NPU and their soon to happen first CCIW win years .... How many of you were recruited by NPU and why did you choose another school over NPU? The new facilites are great. However, as you drive up to any of the campuses, including Augie, Elmhurst, Carthage, and NCC, and walk any of the campuses, there is a huge difference between those campuses and NPU. NPU has great facilities and can promise you immediate playing time, but for the complete college package, NPU is at a disadvantage.

A group of us visited NPU on a late December afternoon. It was a horrbile decision to have our guide walk us from the athletic offices to the dorm, since it was one of the darkest, dreariest walks I've ever done. We all agreed that we not be attending NPU.

[Mugsy]

Just curious .... For all of those heralding the return to respectability of NPU and their soon to happen first CCIW win years .... How many of you were recruited by NPU and why did you choose another school over NPU?

I was recruited by North Park (College), but the situation was a bit different than some.  I've attended a Covenant church all my life.  North Park is part of the Covenant denomination.  So most high school students in Covenant churches hear all about North Park. 

I received a phone call from the North Park head coach (forgive me I can't even remember who it was as it was during the coaching carousel) who promptly promised me a starting position as a freshman!  Umm... I was a 5'9" 175lb OLB as a freshman.  That was all I needed to understand the state of the program.  I would much rather play special teams and get mop-up play for the first couple of years on a good team than play every down on a horrible team. 

Another reason for not attending North Park had to due with the constant barrage of "go to North Park, go to North Park" I got at church.  Perhaps the biggest reason was because my brother was the captain of the Wheaton football team and absolutely loved the school and team.  My brother was 4 years older and I really looked up to him.  If he loved it, I figured it would be good for me... and it was.

[TitanBacker]

thanks for the info on NPU all...sorry I got to it so late my new job is killing me.  I definetly think that if NPU could retain thier players over four years and recruit better with thier new facilities they could make an Elmhurst like turn-around in this decade.  Not really sure though because they seem to have all the recruiting pieces except a winning season in order to get those first couple classes in.  I went to NCC in 01 becasue in 00 they went 5-5 and were shoing improvement and then with the coaching switch and upgrades they got better and better classes in.

Just curious .... For all of those heralding the return to respectability of NPU and their soon to happen first CCIW win years .... How many of you were recruited by NPU and why did you choose another school over NPU? The new facilites are great. However, as you drive up to any of the campuses, including Augie, Elmhurst, Carthage, and NCC, and walk any of the campuses, there is a huge difference between those campuses and NPU. NPU has great facilities and can promise you immediate playing time, but for the complete college package, NPU is at a disadvantage.

A group of us visited NPU on a late December afternoon. It was a horrbile decision to have our guide walk us from the athletic offices to the dorm, since it was one of the darkest, dreariest walks I've ever done. We all agreed that we not be attending NPU.

What's the huge difference and why is NPU at a disadvantage?  Wouldn't the Chicago scene be an advantage for NPU?

Also, you bring up the point of time to visit a school.  In all honesty, the day you visit a school is very influential in your decision.  Many people only visit a school once and that day places an impression on one's mind when he or she finally has to make a choice.  Did the dreary day in Chicago make a negative impression?  I believe so.  And if you visited Augie, Elmhurst, etc. was it spring and nice out or was the weather rainy or snowy?  Even though it's not a determing factor, if you see a bunch of people outside and having a good time when you visit, it may just make you want to go to that school enough to choose it.  Conversely, if the drive to a school is on a gloomy day in mid December and the rain slowly turns to sleet as you walk campus, you may place that school a little lower on your list.  Just my opinion... 8)

[matblake]

I was recruited by North Park when Tim Rucks was there.  He came out to our high school and was very passionate about what he was trying to build there.  2 guys ended up there (Dave Konke, Honorable Mention All-Conference 1995 and Mike Hynes, Placekicker) and had a profitable experience at the Park.  I was more interested in Bethel in MN (getting away from home) and Wheaton (my parents went there).  I ended up wrestling at Wheaton (for only 2 years) but a wrestling program was the difference in my choosing Wheaton over the other 2 schools.

[matblake]

It's the point in the season where everybody is a bit riled up because there is no real direction on how the place the conference.   As we are seeing in the Elmhurst/Carthage debate, both teams are 3-0 and have not faced a common team, there is a lot of spinning of wheels in trying to get the upper hand statwise and "that's why they play the game" comments.  There are some big games in the first 3 weeks (Wheaton/NCC, Carthage/IWU,  Augustana/Elmhurst, Millikin/IWU to name a few) which should lead to the overall conference picture clearing up quite a bit.

[79jaybird]

I still don't buy the comments about Elmhurst not being able to handle the Kenosha night sky, or the night game, or not being able to handle Carthage.  People, these are college conditioned football players.  I am sure almost all of the players (on both sides) have played HS night games, in all conditions.
I agree it is much more difficult to win a ROAD game, that's obvious in every sport and at every level.
Both Carthage and Elmhurst have had to play somewhat decent (not great)  non-conference opponents. IMO, there is nothing that shows either team is "poor" in a certain area.  This is going to be a grudge battle between 2 quality teams. 
Elmhurst lost their starting QB in game one... what did the Jays do?  Sit and cry about it and drop their next few games??  No, they regrouped, rallied around each other to beat a (IMO fairly decent Chicago Team) and then beat Olivet handily on THEIR HOME TURF.
I agree with the stats debate and what both teams have done in recent years, but I don't buy the debate about being able to play in the night sky, etc.  topic.

[redman04]

I still don't buy the comments about Elmhurst not being able to handle the Kenosha night sky, or the night game, or not being able to handle Carthage.  People, these are college conditioned football players.  I am sure almost all of the players (on both sides) have played HS night games, in all conditions.
I agree it is much more difficult to win a ROAD game, that's obvious in every sport and at every level.
Both Carthage and Elmhurst have had to play somewhat decent (not great)  non-conference opponents. IMO, there is nothing that shows either team is "poor" in a certain area.  This is going to be a grudge battle between 2 quality teams. 
Elmhurst lost their starting QB in game one... what did the Jays do?  Sit and cry about it and drop their next few games??  No, they regrouped, rallied around each other to beat a (IMO fairly decent Chicago Team) and then beat Olivet handily on THEIR HOME TURF.
I agree with the stats debate and what both teams have done in recent years, but I don't buy the debate about being able to play in the night sky, etc.  topic.

Well said, but it doesn't change the fact that carthage has been very very tough at home and especially at night.

[Comet 14]

I agree Jaybird. If anything the conditions are easier at night. In my opinion it is easier to see under the lights than in the middle of the afternoon, as long as the field is properly lit. This should be a great game