FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Pat Coleman]

They are indeed lucky.

I would point this out, however, in Bishop's favor -- until the last seven years or so the CCIW was limited to a nine-game schedule. If Bishop had had those seven or so extra games, that would've been about five and a half more wins.

[79jaybird]

April re: Wheaton stats and Coach Swider,  it couldn't happen to a nicer person either!  Coach Swider is a class act and a joy to be around. Wheaton and the CCIW is lucky to have such a great role model.
FatalImpact-- Freund had a great game last night.  I wasn't aware that he was going to start and for awhile was worried that LaFleur may have been injured.  
Perhaps seeing that Carthage has a greater size up front, Elmhurst elected to go with the stronger and more physically built Freund.  I don't have the answer to this one.  I know that right now things are working well for Elmhurst.

[Tailgater]

What a great game for football fans no matter who you're rooting for! Two evenly matched teams slugging it out on a great evening for football. Congrats to Elmhurst for earning an important W for their program. Beware CCIW this is a team to be taken seriously. I want to give a shout-out to Ryan Keeton (Oswego boy) for making an incredible, man-to-man cover, interception on the 2 yard line late in the 4th. What an athletic play as he ripped the ball from the hands of the Carthage player as they were going to the ground. We all thought Carthage was first and goal from the 2, but when the two players got up, Keeton had the ball in his hands. I thought Freund did a real nice job at QB for Elmhurst. Runs well, makes good decisions throwing and sure looked like a leader on the offense.

[Tailgater]

79jaybird:
It was a pleasure to meet and get to know you better yesterday. You're a real stand-up-guy. The Carthage Nation enjoyed your company at the tailgate. Thanks for the offer to join you in the broadcast booth yesterday. That might of made for some interesting listening!! Now that I think about it, I could of worked the video camera while tossing some mindless banter your way like Dick Butkas........BALL!.........

[Tailgater]

79jaybird called it early last week concerning the outcome of the Carthage/Elmhurst game, TURNOVERS. This has been noted here often aready so I will only fill in the details of how the turnovers effected the outcome of the game. I think usee said it, that carthage should of or could of or would have won this game if only...... and that is certainly true. But with 2 evenly matched teams it usually comes down to who makes the least mistakes. The Carthage mistakes proved to be the cause for their defeat. The Red Men offense, I thought, moved the ball pretty well all game. 377 yds of offense with 200+ yards rushing is pretty respectable. Yes the QB had 100+ of those yards, but most were by designed QB draws or simple shot-gun snap and take off running type of plays. With his good speed, O'Boyle is as much a RB as he is a QB. The problem on offense was they were not finishing drives with points. There was a missed field goal in the first half that was certainly affected by difficult gusting winds as a storm cell was passing through. A long Red Men drive in the 3rd qtr ended with a fumble recovered by the Bluejays on Elmhurst's 7 yd line. I'm pretty confident Carthage would have scored on that possesion, until the fumble, as they were moving the ball pretty efficiently. Then early in the 4th qtr the Carthage defense has an inspiring 4th and 1 stop at around the Carthage 6. The very next play, Carthage fumbles the ball back to Elmhurst on the 5. The Bluejays cashed it in.  A Carthage drive in the 4th qtr stalled and they settled for a field goal. Carthage then executed another perfect on-side kick which was recovered around mid-field (about 6:30 left in the game). This possesion ends with a game saving interception by Ryan Keeton at the 2 yd line which I discribed earlier. The Carthage D  then forced Elmhurst 3 and out. Pinned deep, they punted from their endzone. A personnel foul penalty on Elmhurst (late hit out-of-bounds) gave Carthage the ball on Elmhurst's 26 yard line. Carthage moved to 1st down from Elmhurst's 10 or 11 with 2:30 remaining on the clock and one time out and..........then..........too painful..... 79jaybird if you want to finish this it's all yours

[Tailgater]

totally unrelated to football.

I PASSED THE BAR EXAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Congrats to you washdupcard! Much bigger accomplishment than football some may say. I said some

[Tailgater]

I also have a fundamental problem understanding how a carthage offense, with 10 starters returning, can turn it over 4x in a critical game. this is not the mark of a program that is ready to compete for a conference championship.

Usee. I'm not offering excusses for turnovers, but 2 fumbles by the freshmen RB and an outstanding defensive play for an intereception account for three.

[Tailgater]

Carthage's interior D-Linemen and Linebackers were very strong last night.  EC did not get most of their yardage running A or B gaps.  Most of their rushing yards came on QB options stretching it to the sidelines with Freund, Smith, and Wilharm. 

79jaybird:
Really? I saw a lot of big yardage plays for Elmhurst straight up the gut and thought the interior defense of Carthage was not as effective as in their first three games.

[79jaybird]

Tailgater,  thank you and I had a great time with you, your family, and the rest of the gang prior to the game.  I am not going to finish it, because it is not my style to "rub it in" or "gloat".  There is no need for that from either side, because this was a great rivalry game.  We are blessed to have 2 straight weeks to open up the season against well known arch rivals.. i.e. Car/EC and this upcoming NC/Wheaton Bell game. 
Of all the turnovers and miscues (by both sides) I think the most influential was Walker's fumble right after the Redmen's defense shut the door on 4th and 2. 
I also found it rather ironic that you had mentioned the Oswego connection and Ryan Keeton at the tailgate, and here he ends up making one of the clutch plays at the end of the game.
Hope you have a great week and again it was great to spend the time with you yesterday.

[79jaybird]

Tailgater-- I agree that Elmhurst did have some running room inside A/B gaps, but (i guess from up in the booth) it appeared Elmhurst had more room to maneuver on those speed options stretching to the sidelines.

[gryfalia]

April re: Wheaton stats and Coach Swider,  it couldn't happen to a nicer person either!  Coach Swider is a class act and a joy to be around. Wheaton and the CCIW is lucky to have such a great role model.

I have a great deal of respect for Coach Swider, especially after he let me off with only some in-jest ribbing when I fell asleep in his class (during a movie) and he woke me up after everyone else had left the room..;-)

[Mugsy]

Much like I enjoyed the discussion on the key matchup last week between Elmhurst and Carthage, I'm looking forward to disecting the Wheaton/North Central matchup.  This should be fun...

I've already been looking at all the numbers (for what that's worth), and I see a lot of areas that set up well for Wheaton (home field : 35-5 since 1999, much improved defense, etc...).  I'm sure we will have some good banter back and forth on a number of issues here.

One area that concerns me if the game is close... the graduation of Andrew Day (All-American placekicker).  Wheaton is currently 2-5 on field goals (misses were not overly long) and is only hitting on 82% of extra points.  Not stellar numbers...

[usee]

Looks like the talk this week will be Little Brass Bell, whether Elmhurst can continue to take it to the next level by beating Augie, and how Carthage/IWU stack up.

I am still not on the elmhurst wagon yet, but they took care of business with an impressive road win. thats what you have to do to win this conference. we will know just how good elmhurst is next week as they play augie.

Unfortunately for jaybird and comet14, as the NCC fans found out over the last several years it takes winning most/all of the big games before anyone around here will count Elmhurst in as a real contender, if nothing because of the bias of history in the CCIW.  I imagine that could be pretty frustrating.  Since d3football.com wasn't around when Wheaton was making the jump I didn't have to live that frustration of wanting respect for my team out on a message board. I just have the feeling that if the Jays beat Augie, people will point to Augie as having a down year and the real test for Elmhurst will be North Central and if they beat NC then the real test will be IWU and if they beat IWU etc.  

matblake,

I disagree with this. some may think this but i sure don't. you don't become a cciw champion because you post here that you think your team is good enough. you don't even get the trophy for going undefeated in non conference play. and you certainly don't get it because you are returning 10 starters on defense and everyone "thinks" you  will be good.

Elmhurst has a very good team and they will beat most of the teams they will play. can they beat all of the teams they play? i think so but based on past performance we cannot fairly predict that outcome. At this point in the season I think they will conted in every game they play. A win this saturday would be their first against a team with a rich history of winning cciw titles and making playoff runs. many of us are still wondering where carthage stacks up in the balance of power. none of us wonder where augie sits (they may or may not be down this year but we all agree the cciw title every year goes through rock island). The CCIW is a weekly war and only the most battle tested and proven teams will survive. I think elmhurst will be one of those. but I don't have a good feel for how good their competition has been. I know you don't give up 200+ yds against the run vs an average offense and impress many people. that said their win up in kenosha is a good one.

[usee]

Jaybird,

I don't know whose defense is better (augie vs carthage). i suspect its augie from the quality of the competition and the numbers vs those opponents. great defenses do what they are supposed to do. they keep offenses from getting to their average numbers and they dominate against inferior teams. that's my concern w the elmhurst defense( and the carthage defense). i think they have some great athletes and tough players with experience. but the bottom line is they gave up way too much to an average carthage offense. the bluejay d should have dominated the carthage off. now that is just one data point. but on a similar note, augie's defense isn't giving up much (save a couple big pass plays vs uwp) against better opposition (overall) than elmhurst. so,my suspicion is that the augie defense is better than the carthage defense but that impression is flawed by the obvious fact that i haven't seen either team play this year. (but neither has April and that doesn't stop her from being right!!)

[usee]

I also have a fundamental problem understanding how a carthage offense, with 10 starters returning, can turn it over 4x in a critical game. this is not the mark of a program that is ready to compete for a conference championship.

Usee. I'm not offering excusses for turnovers, but 2 fumbles by the freshmen RB and an outstanding defensive play for an intereception account for three.

Its a hard fact but one "could" argue that using a freshman RB doesn't show much depth of the program (you win with seniors) and the elmhurst db "wrestling" the ball away is a great play by a better player?? in both cases its a personnel problem that MAY indicate carthage's program isn't where we thought they were.