FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[79jaybird]

Usee-- I read the caption you provided about the EC/NC recap and unless I am mistaken (which does happen)  I give credit to Stuedemann and Sulo for being the reasons NC came back and won.  "I thought the game was won by Stuedemann and Sulo on offense"  is giving credit to opposing players.  This is giving credit to NC's 2 playmakers while also pointing the finger at ourselves for not executing.
I also recall giving credit to Augie's QB for making the plays late against Elmhurst.  So yes I DO give credit where credit is do and also I am not afraid to point the finger at OURSELVES for not executing. 
"You imply that if Elmhurst did X or Y they would have won"  No,  I did not imply this.  What I implied here is that if Elmhurst had executed X and Y  (or perhaps) didn't turn the ball over on play X or play Y,  they would be in a better position.
"If you were designing a CCIW All Star Team, who would be your HC?"
A) Mike Swider-- not only because he is a very good coach, but more importantly he has a friendly personality, a great motivator and great speaker, and just a joy to be around."
B) Tim Rucks-- You might get intimidated by Coach Rucks at first (if you don't know him), however once you spend 20 minutes or so learning about his philosophy, goals, etc.  you will see that Coach Rucks has a heart of a lion and will do anything/everything for his players and their families.
C) John Thorne-- Similar to Mike Swider,  Coach Thorne has a very friendly personality that makes you want to hear what he has to say.
Note:  A, B, and C are tough because all 3 are good friends of mine and we talk regularly.
The Coach down South in Greenland and the Coach on the shores of the Mississippi are two that I would have trouble playing for.   I have never talked to anybody that played for either of these two coaches that had pleasant remarks about the two.

[79jaybird]

Some of you former players out there,  what Stadium/Field was your favorite to play at? 
My favorites
A) Wheaton's McCully Field
B) Millikin's Lindsay Field
C) Elmhurst's Langhorst Field

[Gregory Sager]

Now you have an idea what the Carthage comeback over IWU was like. Very similar circumstances.

There are some similarities in terms of the respective scoreboards, but the circumstances within the two games were very different. In fact, the Bears' comeback on Monday night was totally unlike any other comeback I've ever seen or heard of before. Carthage forced turnovers and got an onside kick to key their comeback win over Illinois Wesleyan, but it was their offense that actually pushed the ball over the goal line. The Bears' offense was so wretched against Arizona that it played no role whatsoever in that comeback in the fourth quarter (and the last play of the third). Whoever heard of a team coming back from a 20-point deficit in which all of the points that constitute that comeback were scored by the defense and special teams?

That comeback win on Monday night was a totally unique animal as far as football is concerned.

[Gregory Sager]

"Besides it has been awhile since they have been there"

What is the "there"?  Their best finish was 2nd place in the CCIW and they have never won the CCIW let alone be even close to a playoff bid.  I think the immediate goal for Scott Pethtel and NPU is try to start getting competitive in the CCIW and try to start getting strong, perennial recruiting classes feeding into NPU.  Tim Rucks showed that it can happen with A LOT of work, but right now I think NPU has to take baby steps to build up a program.

i am pretty sure he was joking.

I was very much joking Jaybird.  But you did make some valid points about their program

Yes, he did. But he also gave Tim Rucks a bit too much credit. Here's what he did in the CCIW as North Park's coach:

1990: 1-7
1991: 0-8
1992: 1-4-2
1993: 2-4-1
1994: 1-6

Don't get me wrong -- I respect Tim Rucks and I think he's a heckuva coach. But he didn't make the Vikings competitive in the CCIW at all, and it only looks as though he did because his predecessors at NPC and his successors at NPU posted records that were even more dismal than his were.

[redman04]

Norm Eash.  Why waste years getting everyone to hate you, when everyone here already does!

In reality, I don't know.

I also would go with Norm Eash, because I could taunt and harass him for more than 1 game a year!   

[redman04]

[quote author=Gregory Sager link=topic=4077.msg579403#msg579403
Yes, he did. But he also gave Tim Rucks a bit too much credit. Here's what he did in the CCIW as North Park's coach:

1990: 1-7
1991: 0-8
1992: 1-4-2
1993: 2-4-1
1994: 1-6

Don't get me wrong -- I respect Tim Rucks and I think he's a heckuva coach. But he didn't make the Vikings competitive in the CCIW at all, and it only looks as though he did because his predecessors at NPC and his successors at NPU posted records that were even more dismal than his were.
[/quote]

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Rucks bring them to the first 4 win season in a While?  Have they won 4 in a season since? 

This is not meant to be sarcastic if it sounds like it!

[redman04]

If it is a tie, we should just send North Park, they have a great new facility, courtesy of Mike H.  Besides, it has been a while since they have been there.

Very funny!  +K

[Gregory Sager]

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Rucks bring them to the first 4 win season in a While?  Have they won 4 in a season since? 

Yes, he did; the 1993 edition of the Vikings had an overall record of 4-4-1. But the overall performance of the Vikings under Rucks is not germane to the issue at hand. 79jaybird's comments had to do with NPU becoming competitive within the CCIW, and what it would take to get there. And the Vikings didn't come anywhere near getting four CCIW wins in any season under Rucks, as the conference records I posted last night indicated. In his best year, 1993, the Vikings were two games under .500 in conference play.

As has been said countless times in this room by a lot of different people, any CCIW coach can line up two or three non-conference schmoes a year in order to fatten up his team's overall record. Cupcake wins are waved off as unimpressive around here, and rightfully so. If your team isn't competing in conference play, nobody will respect you no matter how close you get to .500 overall by piling up easy wins in September.

[ncc58]

If you were designing a CCIW all-star team, who would be your head coach and why?

Swider.  Because he has great hair!    Oh yeah, and because he is a great coach! 

I would choose a head coach who has had success over a sustained period and has brought championships to his school. That leaves two choices - Barnes and Swider. However, Wheaton has name recognition as a Christian University and that allows them to recruit nationally. Wheaton has the opportunity to recruit players from a wider domain. So, my choice is Barnes who faces a lot of competition from NCC, Elmhurst, and Carthage when recruiting the top prospects from the Chicago area.

[usee]

If you were designing a CCIW all-star team, who would be your head coach and why?

Swider.  Because he has great hair!    Oh yeah, and because he is a great coach! 

I would choose a head coach who has had success over a sustained period and has brought championships to his school. That leaves two choices - Barnes and Swider. However, Wheaton has name recognition as a Christian University and that allows them to recruit nationally. Wheaton has the opportunity to recruit players from a wider domain. So, my choice is Barnes who faces a lot of competition from NCC, Elmhurst, and Carthage when recruiting the top prospects from the Chicago area.

This is one of the more amazing opinions I have read on here in a while. So you think recruiting nationally is an advantage for Wheaton over the other CCIW schools? do you think the talent pool in the chicago area is so small that the other schools dilute each other? That's ridiculous. Take a look at Mt Union's roster or UW Whitewater. Where are most of their players from? You think UWW has to compete with the other UW schools for those players?

Wheaton recruits nationally because it has a set of criteria that cannot be found in their own backyard in order to compete. They need a committed christian, an ivy league level student and a great football player. On the other hand, every CCIW school can go into any given high school, turn over rocks and find recruits with less effort and resources. Wheaton cannot do this. they have built their network over many years and every athlete they recruit comes to them word of mouth. Augustana (or any other cciw school) probably starts their recruiting year with about 1,000 names, has hundreds of visits and works their list down to the top 100 or so they work on to get the 30 they want. Wheaton works very hard to get 100 names, works that down to the 40 or so that qualify and hopes to land 25. Its a totally different approach because of the limitations of their school.

[Mugsy]

If you were designing a CCIW all-star team, who would be your head coach and why?

Swider.  Because he has great hair!    Oh yeah, and because he is a great coach! 

I would choose a head coach who has had success over a sustained period and has brought championships to his school. That leaves two choices - Barnes and Swider. However, Wheaton has name recognition as a Christian University and that allows them to recruit nationally. Wheaton has the opportunity to recruit players from a wider domain. So, my choice is Barnes who faces a lot of competition from NCC, Elmhurst, and Carthage when recruiting the top prospects from the Chicago area.

This is one of the more amazing opinions I have read on here in a while. So you think recruiting nationally is an advantage for Wheaton over the other CCIW schools? do you think the talent pool in the chicago area is so small that the other schools dilute each other? That's ridiculous. Take a look at Mt Union's roster or UW Whitewater. Where are most of their players from? You think UWW has to compete with the other UW schools for those players?

Wheaton recruits nationally because it has a set of criteria that cannot be found in their own backyard in order to compete. They need a committed christian, an ivy league level student and a great football player. On the other hand, every CCIW school can go into any given high school, turn over rocks and find recruits with less effort and resources. Wheaton cannot do this. they have built their network over many years and every athlete they recruit comes to them word of mouth. Augustana (or any other cciw school) probably starts their recruiting year with about 1,000 names, has hundreds of visits and works their list down to the top 100 or so they work on to get the 30 they want. Wheaton works very hard to get 100 names, works that down to the 40 or so that qualify and hopes to land 25. Its a totally different approach because of the limitations of their school.

usee is absolutely right in this.  That said I can understand how the perspective from those outside of the school and program is that since Wheaton recruits nationally it is at an advantage.  True is, as usee points out, Wheaton relies HEAVILY on a network established over time and by word of mouth (alum).  Once Wheaton finds a few players from a region and those players have a positive experience, then the former players, parents of former players, and high school coaches of former players become advocates.  They know the criteria and requirements a recruit must possess.  It is this network built over the past 25 years that has help get Wheaton to the point it is today.

Wheaton recruiting nationally does not equal more possible recruits than other CCIW schools.  It is done by necessity to find high quality students who profess faith in Jesus Christ and who also have significant athletic ability.

[CardinalAlum]

Wheaton recruits nationally because it has a set of criteria that cannot be found in their own backyard in order to compete. They need a committed christian, an ivy league level student and a great football player. On the other hand, every CCIW school can go into any given high school, turn over rocks and find recruits with less effort and resources. Wheaton cannot do this.    

U,

I will agree that Wheaton must work harder to find their recruits, but I also believe that Wheaton offers better tuition assistance packages than any other school in the conference.   Is that accurate?  Usee, Mugsy?

[usee]

Wheaton recruits nationally because it has a set of criteria that cannot be found in their own backyard in order to compete. They need a committed christian, an ivy league level student and a great football player. On the other hand, every CCIW school can go into any given high school, turn over rocks and find recruits with less effort and resources. Wheaton cannot do this.    

U,

I will agree that Wheaton must work harder to find their recruits, but I also believe that Wheaton offers better tuition assistance packages than any other school in the conference.   Is that accurate?  Usee, Mugsy?

I don't think that is true at all but I'll admit to not knowing the specifics. I do know that a couple of recent wheaton players turned down money from other CCIW schools to attend wheaton.

The other thing I have realised is that one of the first things everyone does in D3 to analyze a school's success is to play the "you give more money" card. For years we all said Augie gave the best financial aid and was therefore able to build national champs. In fact I have no idea if this is true or not but it makes us feel better if we think a school had an advantage.

[CardinalAlum]

Let me clarify by saying that I assumed that the assistance given was for everyone and not just athletes.   

[79jaybird]

" I would choose a coach that has success over a sustained period of time and brought championships to the school- that leaves two choices Swider and Barnes"
Ah,  as much as I don't care for Norm Eash, you have to give Stormin' Norman some credit down at IWU.  He was been there a LONG time and the Titans have won it in 1992, 1994 (tied with Augie), 1996, 2000 (tied with Wheaton/Millikin), and 2001 (tied with Augie).
Whether you like Normy or not, Eash can get the W's together and bring home CCIW Championship trophies.