FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Mugsy]

Mugsy
do you know what year they stoped having ties?  I am pretty sure that 95 was the last year, because Carthage tied NCC that year and there hasn't been a tie since

Off the top of my head I can't say for certain, but 1995 sounds about right.  Checking CCIW year-by-year records, you are correct that 1995 was the last year where a game ended in a tie.  It is possible the rule didn't take affect until a year or two later and there just weren't any games that ended in regulation in a tie.

[Mugsy]

That's pretty silly software coding, then. Should be flexible enough to allow for the lack of ties in football and basketball. Does anyone follow those sports?

Pat,
You don't have to tell me that... I write software for a living.  It was just a guess on my part based on how other sections of the website are setup.  That said I just went to a few other sports, like volleyball, and it doesn't include the "ties" part of the record.  Evidently the webmaster doesn't fully understand football rules and that games can no longer end in ties.

[Redmen96]

Why did the Wheaties change their name?  Mary Hardin-Baylor's name is still the Crusaders.

[formerd3db]

Mugsy:
1996 was the first year the NCAA implemented the tie-breaker system.

Also, yes, as Redman asked:  could you and your colleagues please refresh our memories as to why Wheaton changed their nickname?  I realize it was probably discussed here back when it was done, but since my mind is getting older, I don't remember! 

[devildog29]

Most definitely a huge comeback for NCC this weekend.  Unfortunately I don't have the opportunity to see any CCIW games this year, but in reading comments/highlights and prior experience, NCC coaches seem to do an outstanding job of making halftime (especially defensive) adjustments.  I did see NCC play IWU last year in Naperville and if my memory serves me correctly, the Titans jumped out to a pretty good lead at half, only to watch NCC take over the second half.  Sounds like they did the same this weekend.  So kudos go to the NCC coaches for the great job they are doing. 

And to further kick a dead horse, as a Titan, it is surprising and disappointing to see how the "bottom half" of the conference has flipped the script compared to when I was there.  I suppose there is a cycle in everything.  I'm sure the NPU basketball teams of the 80's never figured they'd be consistently in the cellar of the basketball standings 10 years later either.

[Mugsy]

Why did the Wheaties change their name?  Mary Hardin-Baylor's name is still the Crusaders.

In a nutshell it was to remove the association with Crusaders as seen by those of Muslim faith.  For those of the Islamic faith, the Crusades were not a time to remember.  Thought was "Crusaders" is seen as offensive to some people.  Bascially a very similar issue as the Indian mascot issue between the NCAA and many schools this year.

There is just one link I found concerning this...  Google has a bunch of others.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2000/007/12.18.html

Boy am I glad they didn't go with the Cherubs!  YIKES... might have to stop my alumni giving if they went to something like that?  Thunder is weird enough.

[formerd3db]

Mugsy:
Thanks for the follow-up.  I can see the original concern; on the other hand, for a Christian school, it is perhaps a bit strange that they would go the "P.C." route and do that (although some institutions and organizations seem to be doing that in the past decade or so).  While tolerance is part of the Christian faith, promoting Christian values as such does not necessarily mean disrespect or  lack of acknowledgement that other faiths (i.e. Islamic) exist.  Then again, in view of Wheaton's historical support for world mission work, it is understandable to, an extent, they did this.  On the other hand, "Crusaders" could be applied in other ways as well, not just in the historical sense.  IMHO, they caved in to P.C. pressure, but I am not judging or "one to throw stones".  Anyway, Thunder is not all that bad for a nickname, although I'm sure as you allude to, there were probably other selections that were considered and that some of you would have preferred.  I haven't read the article yet you just posted, but will.  Thanks for allowing me this input.

[Mugsy]

formerd3db,
Yeah, it was a very hot issue at Wheaton for awhile, primarily driven by the student body.  Once the majority of the student body latches onto an issue, they usually are pretty persistent.  Personally while I do my best not to offend and reflect poorly on my faith, I'm not sure I would have supported the change of mascot.  Then again, I'm terribly human and fail miserably at times.

I have a hard time thinking of the Wheaton Thunder, not because of mascot per se, it's just when I attended Wheaton and played football, we were the Wheaton Crusaders.

[formerd3db]

Mugsy:
We all succumb to that at times.  But I know what you mean.  I guess I compare the Wheaton situation to the recent "re-brought up" issue regarding Native American nicknames.  I am against the changes and have been passionate about that for many years (I even have Native American blood in my family), but have discussed all that previously so won't reiterate those here.

I do understand your sentiment about the nickname as you explain; I would feel the same way.  This is all past history now, but certainly there are other important issues that the student body and people running the schools (as well as outsiders such as the ACLU) should be more concerned about than nicknames.  Besides, why there is no reason people could not focus on the positive aspects of a nickname rather than the negatives as many tend to do.  Some may respond that they are offended; well, what about my own rights in being offended in the opposite opinion?   Anyway, enough said on this.  Thanks for the review.  I'm sure it is helpful to some of our newer posters.

[CardinalAlum]

 
Cardalum...what was the questionable play calling on NCC's part?

Wash'd,

I just don't like how they have gotten away from establishing Holden.  They moved the football fairly well on the ground and they would stop running the football.  The fade that NCC tried to throw into the endzone was against double coverage basically.  That was a huge momentum breaker in the first half.  In the second half they got back to running a little bit and it opened things up a little better.  In the 4th quarter, they had 3rd and about a foot with about a minute and a half remaining at about Wheaton's 11.  Wheaton had 1 timeout left.  They basically had 2 downs to make a foot and they threw a play action pass where Kniss was almost sacked for about a 10 yd. loss.  They did score a TD, but it was hardly worth the enormous risk.  To answer your question about the Wheaton passing game, it was more about them not executing than us covering anyone.  Wheaton had people running free most of the night.  Thanks goodness they didn't run the same play they had been killing us with all game on the 2 pt. play.  Wheaton's first score came on a busted coverage and they should have had another, but the Wheaton qb underthrew it and allowed us to get back and make an interception.  Spencer came up huge in the 2nd half.

[CardinalAlum]

Weenie week is upon us and I would love nothing more than for them to give Norm a good old fashioned kicking.  I hope some people at NCC have a long memory of IWU running up some scores in the Degeorge era.  What goes around comes around.  Here's hoping Norm gets his.  I distinctly remember a double reverse pass of some sorts by IWU in the 4th quarter of a blowout in Degeorge's last year.  Come on Booster, I know you remember it, we had a discussion about it back then.

[Pat Coleman]

Cardinalalum, I agree with your assessment of Wheaton's passing attack. The Thunder had opportunities there that it did not take advantage of.

[devildog29]

cardinalalum, i can specifically remember beating you 60-0 during our playoff year in 1996, and i can without a doubt tell you it was in no way running up a score.  if i remember correctly, we were already up 42-0 at the half.  i can remember this very clearly because it was one of those games i actually get to play in, but that's besides the point.  i played for him, and trust me, i had my own issues with norm eash.  but there is one thing i can say without any doubt or hesitation, we did not intentionally run the score up on anyone.  i can't speak of a double reverse pass, as i do not remember anything about that, and i don't even know what year that was.  you could say we continued to pass a bit when the scout teamers were in the game, but if you look at our offense (something i've talked about before on here) the titans were never a running team and the offense was built around the passing game.  they are a finesse team.  always have been and probably always will be.  you can't just take 4th stringers and change their playbook on the spot.  the nice thing about this board is for the most part, as alums, we are all generally supportive of everyone else now and don't use this as a means to "talk trash" about any other teams.  i in fact just gave your coaching staff quite the compliment above and have complimented wheaton, and even augie for that matter.  unless you happen to somehow have an intimate knowledge of norm that not even i had playing for him, i don't think you are in a position to say what his motives are.  to be quite honest, when i played, we expected to beat NCC and that was it.  quite frankly you were pretty inconsequential to us, so running up the score on you was never something we would even think about.  

[usee]

devildog- you have unwisely opened the great "norm eash" debate....one for which we all hoped was dead and buried. so be it.

I take issue with your selective memory. you may recall in 1996 playing at wheaton in a battle of the two unbeaten (hey, a rhyme). IWU had the game in hand in the 4th quarter, leading 57-35 i believe. wheaton had put in its 2nd team defense, effectively conceding the game. stormin normin decided to leave your all american qb and the rest of the 1st team in and thought it might be really cool to run an option pass for a 60+ yd td to make the score 64-35 late in the game. there is no defense for what the head weenie did that day and it wasn't forgotten (but was forgiven) as wheaton has only lost 1x to the weenies since then.

[devildog29]

usee, as a player on that team, i do remember that play very well, though i don't remember you having you're second string defense in at that time.  the only other thing i very vividly remember is the horrendous hip injury deion hornsby suffered in that game.  if it is any consolation to you, though it doesn't sound like it will be, against wheaton, we never consider the game "in hand" until the end of the game.  i believe we actually kind of feel that coach swider's offense at any time can put 14 points on the board before you blink.  if the shoe were on the other foot, i'm sure i could easily see it the same way as you.  but, in some weird, backwards compliment, i think we always worry about you guys.  norm, like i said, i have had my own personal issues with him myself that i don't even need to get into, as i would like to remain relatively anonymous should he happen to read this.  but i honestly in my heart feel that he doesn't purposely "stick it" to somebody in order to embarras the other team.  he is most certainly a different guy.  he is not mean spirited, but he literally lives and breathes and will die with illinois wesleyan football, and this insane crazed passion he has for it manifests into something that would seem like obnoxiousness to the opponent/outsider.  but if you could sit in on his practices and his speeches, you may get a different perspective.  let's just say i could not count the number of dick vermeil crying episodes i saw in my four years there.  i'm not making fun of him for it, but the point is he is hyperfanatical about that school as he did play there for legendary swede larson, who trust me i heard all the history about.