FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

matblake · October 04, 2005, 10:00:02 AM

All right, we know about Nathan Wallick from Millikin, he certainly seems to be a talented back. However, is Millikin as one dimensional as Carthage made them appear to be? Seems like the key for Wheaton will me shutting down Mr. Wallick as best they can will be they key for the Thunder if the Millikin/Carthage game is an indicator. Any thoughts?

matblake · October 04, 2005, 10:05:16 AM

The topic of changing the mascot from Crusaders was around when I was at Wheaton as well. There was a lot of debate on the issue. There was even a contingent that preferred not to have a mascot, that Wheaton should just be Wheaton. Looking at some of those names that were suggested made me quite content with the unusual Thunder.

CardinalAlum · October 04, 2005, 10:18:59 AM

DD29,

Just to set the record straight. I never "talk trash" on here. If you ask any of the regulars on here, you will find that I am fairly honest when it comes to my evaluations. The Norm debate has carried on around here for years. And the bottom line is if Norm got the chance to embarrass you, in most cases he was going to do it. Whether it be for recruiting purposes or just plain Norm being Norm, there were many instances through the years where he would "stick it" to someone. Do I have a disdain for the man's coaching decisions? Yes. Do i have anything personal against him? No. I don't know him. His record speaks for itself though. And to respond to one of your last points, when I played, we expected to beat IWU, and did. IWU was as inconsequential to us as NCC was to you in your day. All i'm trying to say is that things change over time and that is why we will all have our differences in opinions on different matters.

Mugsy · October 04, 2005, 10:44:32 AM

This isn't to question the intent, tone, or sincerity of what cardinalalum, devildog, or usee have posted concerning Coach Eash)

No one wins the current debate, IMO. No matter how much one can claim to have an objective opinion, school/team affiliation factors in somewhat and results in significant differences in perspective. I can have no basis of certainty to claim the intent of opposing coaches in games played in the past. Was the score run up? Were the 1st teamers kept in too long? It will always be debated and seen in different light based on which side of the slaughter you experienced. Besides whatever view I have in a matter like this would be will be completely refuted based on the perspective of those who played for the man and know him in a different light than I. IMO, in the end a loss is a loss, whether by 1pt or 60pts. It is the same in the record. If I experienced a white washing by even 20pts, I'd use that as motivation to make sure it doesn't happen the next year.

Now... I don't question those who want to discuss these issues on this post, after all, its an open forum. I just don't see any useful conclusion. Ultimately, things might get heated based on differences of opinion and in the end... virtually no one will change from their initial opinion.

Feel free to pound my karma... but I just don't see what is gained by this discussion.

gryfalia · October 04, 2005, 10:47:27 AM

One of the issues, specifically for a school like Wheaton, regarding the mascot has something to do with the larger-than-normal percentage of students that might end up in a missions field somewhere. They, of course, are proud of their school and might have a few shirts.

So, of course, placing a graduate out in, oh, Lebanon or Egypt as a mission field..wearing a shirt that says 'Wheaton Crusaders Football' = bad plan.

But Wheaton Thunder? Not so bad.

That's part of what I recall from the discussion, being that the change went in after my time.

Gryfalia

CardinalAlum · October 04, 2005, 10:54:21 AM

Mugsy,

Well said!

devildog29 · October 04, 2005, 11:44:53 AM

mugsy, i certainly agree with you, which is why i feel i have a pretty open mind when it comes to other teams, being as we have been out of school long enough that none of this should be personal anymore. this is why i continue to point out the fact that i recently gave huge kudos to the staff at NCC, and have given credit to both augie and wheaton on here as of late. but when a statement is said (to paraphrase) 'it's weenie week, and here's hoping norm gets a good kicking' that's a pretty personal statement, which i think is a much different statement than saying here's hoping we beat the titans this week. i tried to make it clear that i'm really one of the last people to stick up for norm on a personal level, and i've stated over and over that he is a very different guy to deal with. i've also said i can understand how things look differently from the outside looking in. my point is, i've known norm for a long, long time. does he come accross as arrogant? yes. i'm just saying though, if those types of personal statements are going to be made about him, even norm eash has the right to be defended in here, no matter how much you want to give me negative karma points. my ego is sufficiently content to deal with that. however, everyone should have the open mindedness to step back and not look at things from such a personally emotional standpoint. do we all want our own teams to win each week? absolutely, and we should pull for them to do so. but, i think i can also look at things from an independent standpoint and not take anything that coach bishop or swider or reade or anyone has done in the past on a personal level today.

cardinalalum, you are absolutely right, lately, you guys have cleaned our clocks and those of the whole conference. i do sincerely congratulate you and i repeat again how impressed i am with your coaching staff that's there today. i most certainly hope iwu finds the same motivation and recruiting skill to move from the bottom half back to the top half as you all at NCC have done over the last few years. but if there's one thing i really do believe to be true, it's if norm ever did embarrass another team, it was out of naivety and not out of spite or arrogance. you can call him clueless, i'll agree with you there on some things, but i don't think he ever intends to be mean spirited.

RedmenFB44 · October 04, 2005, 11:49:26 AM

Thanks HughJass for the Auggie stats

GO REDMEN!!!

Mugsy · October 04, 2005, 11:58:12 AM

Quote from: devildog29 on October 04, 2005, 11:44:53 AM
no matter how much you want to give me negative karma points. my ego is sufficiently content to deal with that. however, everyone should have the open mindedness to step back and not look at things from such a personally emotional standpoint. do we all want our own teams to win each week? absolutely, and we should pull for them to do so. but, i think i can also look at things from an independent standpoint and not take anything that coach bishop or swider or reade or anyone has done in the past on a personal level today.

You won't see me slamming your karma for what you've just stated, my point I believe is close to what you just stated, only that it is extremely difficult for all parties (myself included) to step back, avoid emotional responses, and keep an objective view concerning this type of topic. Quite honestly if someone were to come on here an post something to question the character of Coach Swider or Coach Bishop, I'd be jumpin' in to refute the claim given my personal experience as a player under them and as an assistant coach - just as you have for Coach Eash. I just feel it is a no-win situation to even bring up a topic like this. (I know you didn't start this discussion, btw)

CardinalAlum · October 04, 2005, 11:59:43 AM

Quote from: devildog29 on October 04, 2005, 11:44:53 AM

cardinalalum, you are absolutely right, lately, you guys have cleaned our clocks and those of the whole conference.

DD,
I don't think that NCC has cleaned anyone's clock. The team has played well enough in one conference game, granted a big one, to start the conference season. IWU on the road is always a tough game for any team, let alone a team that is coming off a big victory. I don't believe any team will run the table in the conference, so this thing is still wide open. Here's hoping that we're still standing on top at the end of conference play!

CardinalAlum · October 04, 2005, 12:04:17 PM

I admit it. I started it!!

Mugsy,
I think you would have a hard time finding anyone to criticize Swider's and especially Bishop's characters. They have been classy individuals through the years that I have been familiar with them. My only beef with Swider is perhaps the lack of a haircut!!

Mugsy · October 04, 2005, 12:13:07 PM

Quote from: cardinalalum on October 04, 2005, 12:04:17 PM
Mugsy,
My only beef with Swider is perhaps the lack of a haircut!!

Ah, yes... the haircut. My freshman year was Swiders first year. We called him "Greystoke" as in the remake of Tarzan back in the 80's (the tarzan character had long, blond hair). Anyway, the last practice of the season in November, on a rainy, 30 degree day, Coach Swider comes running out at the end of practice for conditioning in shorts, shirtless, with a headband (a la tarzan). It was nuts.

Actually, it was Coach Peltz (dline coach) who took more ribbing regarding hair. He was (and still is) known as "Shaggy".

devildog29 · October 04, 2005, 12:34:41 PM

cardinalalum, unfortunately over the last couple of years we haven't been too competitive at home or on the road. i won't get a chance to see them play this year, but based on last year and recent trends, our offense just is not getting it done anymore. they don't seem to have any ability to play any type of sustained, consistent, controlled offensive football, which ends up wearing our defense out. i certainly hope we win, but our running game doesn't seem to be respectable enough to make your defense do anything but come after kudyba all day long and make him run for his life the whole game.

CardinalAlum · October 04, 2005, 12:45:19 PM

Woohoooo!!! Positive Karma!! I'm rolling now!! Thanks to whomever sent it!

usee · October 04, 2005, 12:49:06 PM

-i actually thinkg Devildog resurrected the great norm eash debate (madswede, where are you when we need you). Cardinalalum made a reference that is a cut and paste from any given week on this board and DD chose to expound....thats a can o worms in my book.

-Ddog, on the 1996 game (to put this to rest)...you were up 20 pts w 3 minutes to go in the game and our 2nd team defense was on the field...Lon erickson (i remember the name now) faked an option, dropped back and threw a 60 yd td to your all american wr to go up 27 pts. it wasn't your second team, we weren't running 2 min offense, etc, etc. what norm did was wrong. i believe he may have been making a statement because he thot the injury to your rb was intentional but it was clear to anyone there that he was making a statement

-Karma? what's Karma?