FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[CardinalAlum]

Ric,

Wheaton changed to the Thunder in 2000.  A Wheaton alum would probably answer the why part better than I could.   

[Mugsy]

Hey can anyone answer a couple questions for me? First what year exactly did Wheaton change its nickname from Crusaders to Thunder? I know it was Crusaders in the first meeting in the mid 90's but was Thunder for the last three so I'm guessing late 90's but would like to know exactly.  Secondly, why was the change made? What reasons motivated it?  Thx!

The name was changed from Crusaders due to the image it conveys to those of around the world.  In many areas of the world, "Crusaders" carries a very, very offensive context.  The Crusades involved the massarcing of Muslims and Western Christians massacring Eastern Christians (and vice versa).  Due to how negative the name is viewed, the administration decided to change the mascot.

The following link is a letter from the President of Wheaton College giving a much more detailed explanation of why the change was made.

http://www.wheaton.edu/alumni/mascot.html

One excerpt:
"Though we do not intend it thus, our Crusader mascot inevitably conjures up for significant numbers of people, including some within our own community, troubling images of the historical Crusades. They view the Crusades as negatively as most of us view the infamous Spanish Inquisition, and they can no more understand choosing a mascot that seems to glorify the Crusades than we could a mascot related to the Inquisition. The question we must answer is, What does such a situation require of a community of Christians dedicated to "Christ and His Kingdom"?"

The link below goes into the reasoning behind the change to "Thunder":

http://www.wheaton.edu/alumni/mascot_scripture.html

It should be noted that the decision to change the mascot was made by the College and community and not out of pressure by outside parties.

[CardinalAlum]

I knew my guy Mugsy would eat that question up! 

[Jim Matson]

The thought behind the change was one of images.  Wheaton's president was concerned about what the term "Crusaders" meant to those from a muslim background, or a middle-eastern background.  More than a few Wheaton alums are living in or involved with the middle east and the term "Crusaders" just doesn't have the same ring to it there as it does here.

The Wheaton alumni base is worldwide and thus the image portrayed by all areas of the college are deemed important by the president and the board of trustees.

It was a tough change just because of habit.  Many of us have been using the moniker for 20 years and to suddenly change was difficult - especially for the various PA guys around campus..."and another Crusad - I mean Thunder touchdown!"

I was not one to get too concerned about the name change.  It's not like Ohio State or Illinois changing their name.  I'm just glad that it was well thought out and was done with good intentions, even if some do take it more personally.

[Jim Matson]

And, as Mugsy said, the drive to make this change was internal.  That's important to know as it adds to the integrity of the process.

[Mugsy]

I knew my guy Mugsy would eat that question up! 

But of course...

[matblake]

In addition, because of the religious nature of the school, teams often go on missions trips in other areas of the world.  Although they would simply call themselves Wheaton College or Wheaton University (college can mean secondary or high school in some parts of the world) there was some concern how people would react if the schools nickname became involved. 

Changing to the Thunder was difficult for me at first.  Until I read what the president had to say and the fact that it was internal, I was initially opposed.  However, I think the change overall has been good.  I'm sure most students there now don't even know there was a previous nickname.

[Ric]

Appreciate the info, thx guys. One more question I guess, is this something the college would like to not have brought up and put past them? If so I will not bring it up on the air Saturday, but if not I thought our listeners might find it a bit interesting since the name changed after Mount and Wheaton first played.  I try to get info about opponents in the playoffs I think might be interesting. Thx for the help!

[Mugsy]

Appreciate the info, thx guys. One more question I guess, is this something the college would like to not have brought up and put past them? If so I will not bring it up on the air Saturday, but if not I thought our listeners might find it a bit interesting since the name changed after Mount and Wheaton first played.  I try to get info about opponents in the playoffs I think might be interesting. Thx for the help!

I can not speak for the administration, but as long as the reason for the change is accurately presented, I wouldn't think they would have a problem with it.  I don't view this issue as something the school wants to "sweep under the carpet".  Another reason indicating that they wouldn't care is the fact they still have links on the colleges website about it.  If they didn't want people to know about it, they would not still have the information posted on the website almost 7 years later.

As the President said in his letter regarding the original adoption of Crusader as the mascot:  "So far as anyone seems to know, there never was any formal decision to adopt "Crusaders" as Wheaton's mascot. It happened by default; the label just caught on. From the beginning there were those who were troubled by some of its associations, but the questions were deemed minor."

It was not meant to be offensive.  As time passed, the administration and student body wrestled with the appropriateness of the mascot.  Self reflection can be a good thing.

[D O.C.]

I dunno, Mugsey, that bell in the trophy reminds me of Christian churches, especially those of the Spanish missions. Perhaps it's time to start thinking of renaming the Buzzer Trophy.

[Gregory Sager]

GO Thunder on a train to alliance with some Carthage footballers?? I wouldn't expect to see any of this on Go Thunder's Thanksgiving agenda. Mugsy maybe.

Sure, they could have a discussion on the ins and outs of Karma!

And perhaps some of the young ladies at that "Adult Establishment" would want to share their thoughts on karma as well. 

The thought behind the change was one of images.  Wheaton's president was concerned about what the term "Crusaders" meant to those from a muslim background, or a middle-eastern background.

Many people of Eastern Orthodox background find the term "Crusaders" offensive as well. As Mugsy alluded, the Crusaders sacked and burned Constantinople during the Fourth Crusade in 1204 rather than fulfill their stated mission of fighting in the Holy Land against the Moslems. The bitterness among Greeks and other people of the Eastern Orthodox faith towards the Crusades lingers even to this day; Pope John Paul II apologized for the Fourth Crusade and for what it did to the Greeks not once, but twice (in 2001 to the Archbishop of Athens and in 2004 to the Patriarch of Constantinople).

"Though we do not intend it thus, our Crusader mascot inevitably conjures up for significant numbers of people, including some within our own community, troubling images of the historical Crusades. They view the Crusades as negatively as most of us view the infamous Spanish Inquisition, and they can no more understand choosing a mascot that seems to glorify the Crusades than we could a mascot related to the Inquisition.

A shame, really, as I've always wanted to see a team called the Cardinal Fangs, or the Comfy Chairs.

"Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise ... surprise and fear ... fear and surprise ... our two weapons are fear and surprise ... and ruthless efficiency ... our three weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency ... and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope ... our four ... no ... amongst our weapons ... amongst our weaponry ... are such elements as fear, surprise ... I'll come in again."

[usee]

Appreciate the info, thx guys. One more question I guess, is this something the college would like to not have brought up and put past them? If so I will not bring it up on the air Saturday, but if not I thought our listeners might find it a bit interesting since the name changed after Mount and Wheaton first played.  I try to get info about opponents in the playoffs I think might be interesting. Thx for the help!

Ric,  I agree w Mugsy. Its a good topic to cover. Some of us former "crusdaders" have an attachment to athletics that is hard to break. Other than that my onlyl concern was being renamed "the fighting sheep" which would have been painful.

If you are that interested there is a direct connection to all of this with the football team. the team goes out together every spring break on a ministry with some former football alums serving as missionaries. they travel to senegal, west africa, Romania, and most recently Indonesia for a week of service every March. there is a link to it on the football page of the wheaton athletics website. this is where the nickname "crusaders" would cause the most friction presumably and has a direct connection on the guys playing in alliance this saturday.

[usee]

USee LK had a great line recently. It was after our interview prior to the Marietta game, which was the final regular season game.  We were talking about game films and the NCAA rules regulating what coaches can and cannot do because when there were byes in the playoffs four teams didn't play in the first week but were not allowed to physically go watch the game between the two teams that would produce their opponent the following week.

Anyway he said if it were up to him he'd rather due without the films. He said, lets just show up and play and make the adjustments as we go.  Knowing him, it was a surprise and not a surprise.  It was surprising because no one spends more time than he does breaking down film, but not surprising because he knows one of his strengths (one of many) is game time decisions and adjustments.

His reputation goes before him on game time adjustments. again, I don't think film exchange for this game is that important because of the familiarity each of these teams has with the other.

[usee]

I dunno, Mugsey, that bell in the trophy reminds me of Christian churches, especially those of the Spanish missions. Perhaps it's time to start thinking of renaming the Buzzer Trophy.

interesting thing about this bell game....I don't think anyone thought much about it before Thorne became coach. for the 20+ years before that NCC was a middle of the pack CCIW school and the bell game didn't mean that much. It has only recently become a hated rivalry because of the success of both schools. thats my impression.

I always thought that Augie and/or IWU was a more hated rival than NCC. at least it was that way when I was in school. But we were Crusaders back then! 8)

[AndOne]

couple more notes on the games this weekend:


for NCC they have struggled the most this season on the road in big games. fortunately for them they didn't have many of those this year. they were nowhere to be found in the second half vs wheaton after dominating the first half. they needed some late game heroics to pull out a win in decatur and cruised down in bloomington vs IWU. They need to prove they can play well for 4 quarters on the road and this will certainly be the platform to that. for them they will see on film Cap vs. Baldwin wallace, muskingum and Mt Union.  those films will be very useful for NCC. Cap sees ncc vs carthage, IWU and Augie. I think only the carthage tape is any good. IWU will give them a feel for how NCC defends the spread formations. I expect some points to be put up in this game and turnovers will be key. If NCC can get to pentello with their front 4 they will win. If ncc has to blitz I think they are dead because pentello is too good. I think the same is true for Cap vs Kniss. the other key will be NCC's ability to run the ball. If NCC wins, Sulo is as likely a reason why as kniss.

Excuse me, but didn't NCC do EXACTLY that by not only winning a PLAYOFF road game, but CRUSHING a team that had previously beat them this season?