FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[matblake]

Ok, as long as we are talking about great players, how about some comments about some versatile guys?  For example, for Wheaton, I can't remember if it was in 92 or 93 that Kermit Ellison was a starter on defense, played regularly on offense (more than 15 or so plays), and also played on special teams.  While I imagine that this took place more regularly in the earlier years of the CCIW, I imagine that it became more rare say in the early 80's.  Any players since the middle 80's from other schools that fall into that category?

[dansand]

Ok, as long as we are talking about great players, how about some comments about some versatile guys?  For example, for Wheaton, I can't remember if it was in 92 or 93 that Kermit Ellison was a starter on defense, played regularly on offense (more than 15 or so plays), and also played on special teams.  While I imagine that this took place more regularly in the earlier years of the CCIW, I imagine that it became more rare say in the early 80's.  Any players since the middle 80's from other schools that fall into that category?

Tom Anthony was two-way player as a junior and senior at Augie. He was second team All-CCIW as a receiver his freshman year (although he didn't play defense then) and was CCIW Defensive Player of the Year at corner his senior year, when he was also tied for second on the team in receptions.

[matblake]

Ok, as long as we are talking about great players, how about some comments about some versatile guys?  For example, for Wheaton, I can't remember if it was in 92 or 93 that Kermit Ellison was a starter on defense, played regularly on offense (more than 15 or so plays), and also played on special teams.  While I imagine that this took place more regularly in the earlier years of the CCIW, I imagine that it became more rare say in the early 80's.  Any players since the middle 80's from other schools that fall into that category?

Tom Anthony was two-way player as a junior and senior at Augie. He was second team All-CCIW as a receiver his freshman year (although he didn't play defense then) and was CCIW Defensive Player of the Year at corner his senior year, when he was also tied for second on the team in receptions.

I wasn't aware that Anthony had played both ways.  Pretty impressive.  How many passes did he catch that year, like 3?    (Insert any other good natured joke about the lack of passing at Augie here)  But seriously, in today's game, it goes to show that Anthony was indeed a special player. 

[Tailgater]

Ok, as long as we are talking about great players, how about some comments about some versatile guys?  For example, for Wheaton, I can't remember if it was in 92 or 93 that Kermit Ellison was a starter on defense, played regularly on offense (more than 15 or so plays), and also played on special teams.  While I imagine that this took place more regularly in the earlier years of the CCIW, I imagine that it became more rare say in the early 80's.  Any players since the middle 80's from other schools that fall into that category?

Donovan Moore from Carthage will return as a 5th year senior after missing the entire 2006 season (due to a preseason hamstring injury). Moore sorta fits this versitile guy profile. He has been a regular on the Red Men defense listed as a free safety, but could probably play any of the defensive back positions or outside linebacker at 6'1" 220lbs with blazing speed. Moore is probabably one of the most exciting players I have ever witnessed from punt formation. Most of the CCIW teams should know by now when Donovan drops back in punt formation punting is the last option he may choose. As a former High School QB he has thrown for first downs and TDs. With his exceptional speed he has run for several first downs. He is also able to kick with either his left or right foot, which has helped him escape disaster on several occasions.There is no doubt if Carthage wanted to they could work him into the offense in certain personnel packages as a reciever or running back with great results.

[Titanwatcher]

I'd join in the best players discussion, but by far the best qbs I saw were Ken Anderson and Steve Laub!  

I might be slightly outside the time frame you specified!

Ypsi, Don't forget Erickson and Rooney

You're talkin' way after my time!

Ypsi I am as new to this board as you are established, Rooney was more about my time as I had a brother playing at NCC about that time.

[dansand]

Tom Anthony was two-way player as a junior and senior at Augie. He was second team All-CCIW as a receiver his freshman year (although he didn't play defense then) and was CCIW Defensive Player of the Year at corner his senior year, when he was also tied for second on the team in receptions.

I wasn't aware that Anthony had played both ways.  Pretty impressive.  How many passes did he catch that year, like 3? 

Actually it was four...seriously. 
But he did catch 33 for 675 yards and 6 TD's as a freshman.

[Redmen96]

I think a better way to go at this list would be to post the top three at your school then debate their place in the conference. (you may not be able to come up with 3 for each group but I am sure you can get two of each.  Hopefully we can get someone to represent Millikin!

So here's my start with the Redmen
QB:
1.  Brown, 2. Garza (too bad we only had him for 1 Year)  
RB:
1. Washington, 2. Burris 3. Baker
WR:
1. Garnes 2. Bergman (TE)
OL:
1. Binish 2. Glassman 3. Prybilski
DL:
1. Kalinowski-----Sorry Reidy!
LB:
1. Sedeska 2. Hartman 3. Fox
DB:
1. Prall 2. Barns
K:
1. Moore

Just My opinion

Its ok Joe Bear I am confident that I rank #1 in several other categories there.
I have to agree with Sedeska one of the smartest and toughest LBs on the field.
NICE CALL with the Pry-Monster

[Redmen96]

I bet I have the best squat in school history maybe even conference.  I did reps with 9 and change.  Ask Big Coach and Johnny.

[NCC_alum62]

washdupcard,
     I've been around long enough to see the changes and hear the discontent. Things have changed over the past three years.  All you have to do is hear the parents talk in the stands.  MANY of them are very discontent.  From what I hear them saying  and from what many current players are saying... its is very evident that MANY of the players are not happy.  I've even overheard some of the coaches expressing displeasure with the way some things are being handled.   This is not good when you have a successful program.
 
     Starters are quiting.  Potential starters are not returning. Upperclassmen are quiting. Underclassmen are wondering what the heck is going on with the way some of the upperclassmen are being treated. After arriving, many are disappointed with how the program actually is compared to how they were led to believe it was.  Even former players' parents are asking what the heck is going on when they hear what is happening.

     It appears as if a couple of the coaches think they have become bigger than the TEAM...the PROGRAM...They preach the philosophy, but don't live by it.  That might work in high school, in a captive audience, but, young college men are not that naïve.   Alot is going on to tear the TEAM apart.  Things aren't as they were a year or two ago.  The family is not happy!
     This is hurting the immediate team and the future of the team via recruiting.  If former players and parents don't support the program and talk it up.....no one will.

     Just sit in the stands and listen with an open ear.  Believe me, I hope it doesn't happen, but it has already started.
     

As a person who played under Thorne there were things that were done that some people didn't like. Thorne is a human just like all of us and he can make a mistake, but I think he has made a better transition than many coaches from HS to College.

Thorne is a winner plain and simple. He was a winner in High School and he came in with HIGH expectations of us. Winners don't always react well to loosing, and Thorne hates loosing more than I think people understand sometimes.  If he had gotten on us players for something it was because that attitude/behavior was not helping the teams chance to win football games.  I say this with all his philosophy aside.

To be honest I think some of those players were disgruntled over his stance on alcohol and team image.   Thorne doesn't like his players to drink and party it up too hard because I don't think he feels its what we as players should be doing especially during the season.  He wants a professional group of young men to represent themselves and the school with dignity and class. He preaches it and I think he lives by it. I don't know about any staff that didn't also buy into that while I was playing, but all of the coaches I ever had an experience with at NCC that Thorne hired were some of the best coaching examples of my playing career.

Its hard to get young men to buy into that expecially at college where alcohol and the party scene are so socially important sometimes.

As far as coaching changes and shake-ups if Weinke is still there and they get a new coordinator I'm happy about that. Weinke strength and conditioning program was as much apart of the turn around as anything else, and if some PARENTS think he wasn't doing a good job, well...frankley thats what parents do and its embarassing for us as players when our parents do that.  Parents have not put in the hours coaches have in preparing for an opponent, or building a staff, or recruiting a class of young men that have the best chance of being great student athletes.

We all question sometimes but coaches do things for a reason, sometimes those reasons seem muddled but I don't believe for a second coach Thorne would do something to jeopordize his program or his team. IMHO

[CardinalAlum]

Great post!!

[usee]

From 1995 through this last season, name the top 3 best CCIW players in the following categories:
1. QB
2. RB
3. WR
4. OL
5. DL
6. LB
7. DB
8. Kicker

I know Mugsy is still in deep thought over this one, but I'm curious on some of the other regulars' opinions(Usee, dansand, dhf, Jaybird, redmen96/44, etc.). 

its an interesting question and I agree w Mugsy, it will take some time to research. some of the key people have already been highlighted. off the top of my head I can't imagine an offensive backfield that doesn't consider Scott Tumilty from Augie or Pedro Aruzza from Wheaton. My top 3 qbs have already been listed (lon erickson, kam kniss, jeff brown).  more later.

some tough choices but here is my list (I excluded current players until their "body of work" is concluded):

QB: not much to debate here   Lon Erickson 1996 IWU, Kam Kniss NCC 2006, Jeff Brown WHeaton 1995

RB: a little tougher for me to choose but here they are: Scott Tumilty Augie 1995, Pedro Arruza Wheaton 1995, Nathan Wallick MU 2006 (others in contention were Dante Washington, Carthage; Dave Chorney, and Dane Shaw)

WR: No doubt in my mind here but there have been some great ones: Mark Loeffler Wheaton 1995, Brad Musso Wheaton 2004, Tyke Spencer NCC 2005 (some great IWU recievers are Honorble mention: shawn emerson, eric larsen, zac williams, eric white)

OL: tough to choose but I like: JD Sheldon Augie, Jim Witte NCC 1997, Doug Johnston Wheaton 1995 (others included Mack Hay Augie, DeAndre Hardy IWU, Jeff Hoxworth Wheaton and a couple Millikin OLine whose names escape me)

DL: Little question here: Jeff Heinzl IWU 2000 (most dominant since studebaker), Mike Lindsey Millikin 2001, Mike Hansen Augie 2003 (another augie great was Doug Raiser as a DE, he was a beast)

LB: this was most difficult so i split this into the top 3 Inside and outside LBs (a cop out):

OLBs: John Munch IWU 1997 (the best Lb period since 1995), Ray Hartman Carthage 2003, JD Leman Wheaton 2000
ILBs: Rusty VanWetzinga Augie 1995, Chip Parrish Wheaton 1996, Lenny Radtke NCC 2005

DB's: I have the worst memory of this position but heres my best shot at the top 3: Norm "Junebug" Robinson NCC 199?, Kevin Kaplan IWU 2002, Brett Barnes Carthage 2005 (also considered Jon Godie IWU, Fosdick Augie, Anthony Augie, Andrekus IWU, Fahey IWU)

Keeker: Mike Clark is the best kicker this league has seen in a long time. as far as punter i would go w Ryan Jordan from NCC or Aaron McLean from Millikin.


{added later} I forgot TE: by far the best TE in this time period was Jason Richards IWU 1996, sally from augie in 200 and studeman (was he a tight end?) are also worth mentioning.

[CardinalAlum]

some tough choices but here is my list (I excluded current players until their "body of work" is concluded):

QB: not much to debate here   Lon Erickson 1996 IWU, Kam Kniss NCC 2006, Jeff Brown WHeaton 1995

RB: a little tougher for me to choose but here they are: Scott Tumilty Augie 1995, Pedro Arruza Wheaton 1995, Nathan Wallick MU 2006 (others in contention were Dante Washington, Carthage; Dave Chorney, and Dane Shaw)

WR: No doubt in my mind here but there have been some great ones: Mark Loeffler Wheaton 1995, Brad Musso Wheaton 2004, Tyke Spencer NCC 2005 (some great IWU recievers are Honorble mention: shawn emerson, eric larsen, zac williams, eric white)

OL: tough to choose but I like: JD Sheldon Augie, Jim Witte NCC 1997, Doug Johnston Wheaton 1995 (others included Mack Hay Augie, DeAndre Hardy IWU, Jeff Hoxworth Wheaton and a couple Millikin OLine whose names escape me)

DL: Little question here: Jeff Heinzl IWU 2000 (most dominant since studebaker), Mike Lindsey Millikin 2001, Mike Hansen Augie 2003 (another augie great was Doug Raiser as a DE, he was a beast)

LB: this was most difficult so i split this into the top 3 Inside and outside LBs (a cop out):

OLBs: John Munch IWU 1997 (the best Lb period since 1995), Ray Hartman Carthage 2003, JD Leman Wheaton 2000
ILBs: Rusty VanWetzinga Augie 1995, Chip Parrish Wheaton 1996, Lenny Radtke NCC 2005

DB's: I have the worst memory of this position but heres my best shot at the top 3: Norm "Junebug" Robinson NCC 199?, Kevin Kaplan IWU 2002, Brett Barnes Carthage 2005 (also considered Jon Godie IWU, Fosdick Augie, Anthony Augie, Andrekus IWU, Fahey IWU)

Keeker: Mike Clark is the best kicker this league has seen in a long time. as far as punter i would go w Ryan Jordan from NCC or Aaron McLean from Millikin.

Nicely done.  I might have missed on Heinzl, but I think Studebaker will be one of the all time greats.

[New Tradition]

washdupcard,
     I've been around long enough to see the changes and hear the discontent. Things have changed over the past three years.  All you have to do is hear the parents talk in the stands.  MANY of them are very discontent.  From what I hear them saying  and from what many current players are saying... its is very evident that MANY of the players are not happy.  I've even overheard some of the coaches expressing displeasure with the way some things are being handled.   This is not good when you have a successful program.
 
     Starters are quiting.  Potential starters are not returning. Upperclassmen are quiting. Underclassmen are wondering what the heck is going on with the way some of the upperclassmen are being treated. After arriving, many are disappointed with how the program actually is compared to how they were led to believe it was.  Even former players' parents are asking what the heck is going on when they hear what is happening.

     It appears as if a couple of the coaches think they have become bigger than the TEAM...the PROGRAM...They preach the philosophy, but don't live by it.  That might work in high school, in a captive audience, but, young college men are not that naïve.   Alot is going on to tear the TEAM apart.  Things aren't as they were a year or two ago.  The family is not happy!
     This is hurting the immediate team and the future of the team via recruiting.  If former players and parents don't support the program and talk it up.....no one will.

     Just sit in the stands and listen with an open ear.  Believe me, I hope it doesn't happen, but it has already started.
     

Where in this post do you mention that there would be a change at the D-coordinator position?   I highlighted all of your statements that you made in October.  You sure changed your tune after the conference was won and we made the playoffs!  As I mentioned to you months ago, winning cures the little things that tend to creep up during the season.  Recruiting is off to a great start, the team doesn't appear to be "torn apart".  Where is that huge defection of potential starters and underclassmen?

Cardinaldad is not saying that he claims to have specifically foreseen a change in the defensive coordinator position back in October, merely that there was unrest and that it would manifest itself in one way or another. In his post, he speaks of unhappy coaches several times.  This could account for the coaching shakeup, which, I believe, is not even close to being finished.  As far as the players are concerned, if you read more closely, he states that the coaches started treating the players with a little more respect as the season went on, the way that they used to...etc.  This would account for the lack of "huge defection of upperclassmen and starters."  As far as starters and upperclassmen quitting, Alex Finke was one of those starter/upperclassmen, and I can personally vouch that I heard, with my own ears, several players say that they were not interested in coming back next season (they have since reneged on this decision, but early in the season it was talked about by several players quite frequently).  Before you jump down Cardinaldad's throat, why don't you read his posts a little more closely.  Let the Karma hits begin!   

[CardinalAlum]

So, because a parent says that the coaches are unhappy, it must be true?  Give me a break.  You had one coach leave to pursue bigger oppotunities and a change at DC.  THat is hardly a "shakeup".   Did you see the Capital receivers running free all over the field?  There's part of the reason for a DC change along with an opportunity to bring in a brilliant young coach into the program.  Weinke is sticking around so obviously he must not be that unhappy there.  He might not like getting demoted, but he will be coaching.   As far as upperclassmen leaving, once again it comes back to winning cures many supposed problems.  For those that did quit last year, it was their loss.  The team obvioulsy didn't need them.  I read posts very closely and put much thought into what I post.  I have been around this program for over twenty years now and I obviously am very passionate about it and the school.  Cardinaldad's "i told you so" post was a lame attempt at covering up his needless post in October.  Check NCC_alum62's last post.  He states that it is EMBARRASING when parents begin to openly question the coaching staff.  He obviously gets it. 

[CardinalAlum]

Let the Karma hits begin!   

So let it be written........