FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Mr. Ypsi]

April,

Thanks greatly for the effort, but those numbers look like accounting BS.  Both Carthage and IWU have revenues and expenses matching down to the dollar!  Obviously NCC simply doesn't have (or reveal) data on recruiting and, as powerful as the Titan alumni network and reputation may be for recruiting, I suspect Ron Rose alone spent more than that to get the class he got!

Methinks we just aren't going to know how the schools compare in expenditures - certainly not from the public data.

[CardinalAlum]

Where do you get this information?  Also, while you find NCC & IWU numbers laughable, it would seem to me that if these are the recruiting numbers for all mens sports, the Augie coaches are staying at the Four Seasons, by comparison.

Obviously it doesn't take a lot of effort or money to get people to come to Naperville!    On the flipside, Augie must spend lots more to get recruits to come to Rocktown! 

[CardinalAlum]

Where do you get this information?  Also, while you find NCC & IWU numbers laughable, it would seem to me that if these are the recruiting numbers for all mens sports, the Augie coaches are staying at the Four Seasons, by comparison.

Red Roof Inn IS the Four Seasons in Rock Island! 

[Titanwatcher]

Where do you get this information?  Also, while you find NCC & IWU numbers laughable, it would seem to me that if these are the recruiting numbers for all mens sports, the Augie coaches are staying at the Four Seasons, by comparison.

Obviously it doesn't take a lot of effort or money to get people to come to Naperville!    On the flipside, Augie must spend lots more to get recruits to come to Rocktown! 

You never fail to amuse with your unique point of view. Keep up the good work

[Titanwatcher]

Where do you get this information?  Also, while you find NCC & IWU numbers laughable, it would seem to me that if these are the recruiting numbers for all mens sports, the Augie coaches are staying at the Four Seasons, by comparison.

Red Roof Inn IS the Four Seasons in Rock Island! 

That was just mean spirited. If we had any Aguie posters, you might get a nasty reply

[CardinalAlum]

Where do you get this information?  Also, while you find NCC & IWU numbers laughable, it would seem to me that if these are the recruiting numbers for all mens sports, the Augie coaches are staying at the Four Seasons, by comparison.

Red Roof Inn IS the Four Seasons in Rock Island! 

That was just mean spirited. If we had any Aguie posters, you might get a nasty reply

Ohhh, i'm sure dansand, Augie6 and some of the other Viking youth will come back with some well written shot at NCC.  That's the fun of it all!  I'm still holding a grudge 17 years later that we played a game at Augie in a complete downpour in 38 degree weather and were treated to a freezing cold shower in the Augie visitors locker facility after the game!! 

[Mr. Ypsi]

Where do you get this information?  Also, while you find NCC & IWU numbers laughable, it would seem to me that if these are the recruiting numbers for all mens sports, the Augie coaches are staying at the Four Seasons, by comparison.

Red Roof Inn IS the Four Seasons in Rock Island! 

That was just mean spirited. If we had any Aguie posters, you might get a nasty reply

Ohhh, i'm sure dansand, Augie6 and some of the other Viking youth will come back with some well written shot at NCC.  That's the fun of it all!  I'm still holding a grudge 17 years later that we played a game at Augie in a complete downpour in 38 degree weather and were treated to a freezing cold shower in the Augie visitors locker facility after the game!! 

Oh, whine, whine.  I bet the shower was a good 10 degrees warmer than the rain!

[And I don't even LIKE Augie!]

[Titanwatcher]

Where do you get this information?  Also, while you find NCC & IWU numbers laughable, it would seem to me that if these are the recruiting numbers for all mens sports, the Augie coaches are staying at the Four Seasons, by comparison.

Red Roof Inn IS the Four Seasons in Rock Island! 

That was just mean spirited. If we had any Aguie posters, you might get a nasty reply

Ohhh, i'm sure dansand, Augie6 and some of the other Viking youth will come back with some well written shot at NCC.  That's the fun of it all!  I'm still holding a grudge 17 years later that we played a game at Augie in a complete downpour in 38 degree weather and were treated to a freezing cold shower in the Augie visitors locker facility after the game!! 

Having fun is the best part of this board, Now if you go to the IBC board their idea of having fun is verbally gutting each other. That can be fun too

[Titanwatcher]

Where do you get this information?  Also, while you find NCC & IWU numbers laughable, it would seem to me that if these are the recruiting numbers for all mens sports, the Augie coaches are staying at the Four Seasons, by comparison.

Red Roof Inn IS the Four Seasons in Rock Island! 

That was just mean spirited. If we had any Aguie posters, you might get a nasty reply

Ohhh, i'm sure dansand, Augie6 and some of the other Viking youth will come back with some well written shot at NCC.  That's the fun of it all!  I'm still holding a grudge 17 years later that we played a game at Augie in a complete downpour in 38 degree weather and were treated to a freezing cold shower in the Augie visitors locker facility after the game!! 

Oh, whine, whine.  I bet the shower was a good 10 degrees warmer than the rain!

[And I don't even LIKE Augie!]

good one Obi Wan

[Mugsy]

Is it me or the temperatures hit the upper 80's/lower 90's in the midwest and things begin to heat up on this board?  Gotta love it...

Just about 3 months until players report...

[diehardfan]

Where do you get this information?  Also, while you find NCC & IWU numbers laughable, it would seem to me that if these are the recruiting numbers for all mens sports, the Augie coaches are staying at the Four Seasons, by comparison.

Yes, apparently Augie has a relatively huge recruiting budget. And it's from an audit of sorts done by the federal government to keep tabs on spending.

April,

Thanks greatly for the effort, but those numbers look like accounting BS.  Both Carthage and IWU have revenues and expenses matching down to the dollar!  Obviously NCC simply doesn't have (or reveal) data on recruiting and, as powerful as the Titan alumni network and reputation may be for recruiting, I suspect Ron Rose alone spent more than that to get the class he got!

Methinks we just aren't going to know how the schools compare in expenditures - certainly not from the public data.

I think that the data has to at least be somewhat legit. I mean, they can't just completely make up all the numbers... that would totally catch up to them. But I did think that it was funny that Carthage and IWU spent exactly the same too. I thought I had cut and paste the numbers wrong both times.

I don't know if Ron Rose spent that alone, since IWU very much a regional school, that recruits almost entirely within the state (ie, no hotels or flights necessary). However, yeah, it seems a little low given the caliber of other men's teams like baseball.

What I like about these numbers is that while they may not be exact, Augie and Wheaton, which have strong football programs, use the revenue to fund other sports (or possibly even other programs in the college? who knows). I'd have to look it up but I bet the difference would completely fund another lower cost sport! This is obviously better than the Elmhurst method where they spend way more than they get from ticket sales and whatnot.

Plus it does give you the data to support the fact that budgets have very little to do with program successes... it's all about the staff. And obviously I believe that Wheaton is extremely blessed in that arena!

Obviously it doesn't take a lot of effort or money to get people to come to Naperville!    On the flipside, Augie must spend lots more to get recruits to come to Rocktown! 

Personally, I'm just amazed that Thorne, Raridon, etc. do their recruiting without ever even picking up a telephone, much less drive to HS games.

[Gregory Sager]

April,

Thanks greatly for the effort, but those numbers look like accounting BS.  Both Carthage and IWU have revenues and expenses matching down to the dollar!  Obviously NCC simply doesn't have (or reveal) data on recruiting and, as powerful as the Titan alumni network and reputation may be for recruiting, I suspect Ron Rose alone spent more than that to get the class he got!

Methinks we just aren't going to know how the schools compare in expenditures - certainly not from the public data.

I'm completely with Chuck on this one. It looks pretty plain to me (and April's parenthetical comments even support it as well) that these stats were probably compiled by the various athletic departments in order to please the auditors rather than accurately reflect the actual financial status of the CCIW's eight football programs. The revenue numbers, for example, are just plain silly.

[Gregory Sager]

You make my points excellently. You don't actually think because Wheaton had a winning team in 1959 they have access to HS coaches do you? They got good players because JR Bishop was a legend in Indiana and Illinois and ran the most successful HS passing camp in the country. He had a great reputation and coaches (particularly christian coaches) sent him names. THey got players because Mike Swider came and pounded the pavement finding players in pockets around the country and building relationships with former alums and christian coaches that look for players matching wheaton's standards. It was a committed staff that built this program among many other factors.

Apples and oranges, usee, apples and oranges. My point all along has been that NPU and Wheaton are not parallel institutions on or off the field, and therefore any analogies that you attempt to derive between them in terms of football success are suspect. Wheaton, by your own admission, built relationships with coaches and alums across the country. That is as it should be, because Wheaton recruits student-athletes nationally. North Park recruits nationally as well, but generally for students at large rather than student-athletes. NPU student-athletes are almost always recruited locally -- and it's with the local Chicagoland high school coaches that NPU has to build relationships. Since forty years of horrible football teams and subpar retention rates have scarred North Park's reputation with Chicagoland high school coaches, it's that much harder for Scott Pethtel or anyone else to change the school's reputation. By contrast, it's that much easier for him to, say, dip into his contacts in Michigan for recruits, since NPU does not carry that sort of gridiron opprobrium in his old haunts.

History matters.

[Gregory Sager]

North Park's endowment may no longer be the lowest in the CCIW.  It has increased significantly in recent years and as of June 30, 2006 it was $48.9 million.

Wow. That's quite a jump in a very short span of time. It's great to read this. After 45 years of CCIW membership, North Park is finally no longer the league pauper. Thanks for the 411, Omaha!

[dansand]

Where do you get this information?  Also, while you find NCC & IWU numbers laughable, it would seem to me that if these are the recruiting numbers for all mens sports, the Augie coaches are staying at the Four Seasons, by comparison.

Red Roof Inn IS the Four Seasons in Rock Island! 

That was just mean spirited. If we had any Aguie posters, you might get a nasty reply

Ohhh, i'm sure dansand, Augie6 and some of the other Viking youth will come back with some well written shot at NCC.  That's the fun of it all!  I'm still holding a grudge 17 years later that we played a game at Augie in a complete downpour in 38 degree weather and were treated to a freezing cold shower in the Augie visitors locker facility after the game!! 

No nasty reply from me. I just got called a "Viking youth!" That's funny!