FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Mugsy]

Where do you get this information?  Also, while you find NCC & IWU numbers laughable, it would seem to me that if these are the recruiting numbers for all mens sports, the Augie coaches are staying at the Four Seasons, by comparison.

Red Roof Inn IS the Four Seasons in Rock Island! 

That was just mean spirited. If we had any Aguie posters, you might get a nasty reply

Ohhh, i'm sure dansand, Augie6 ORand some of the other Viking youth will come back with some well written shot at NCC.  That's the fun of it all!  I'm still holding a grudge 17 years later that we played a game at Augie in a complete downpour in 38 degree weather and were treated to a freezing cold shower in the Augie visitors locker facility after the game!! 

No nasty reply from me. I just got called a "Viking youth!" That's funny! 

Let's not be hasty... I'm sure CardinalAlum meant to use "or" instead of "and".   

[usee]

You make my points excellently. You don't actually think because Wheaton had a winning team in 1959 they have access to HS coaches do you? They got good players because JR Bishop was a legend in Indiana and Illinois and ran the most successful HS passing camp in the country. He had a great reputation and coaches (particularly christian coaches) sent him names. THey got players because Mike Swider came and pounded the pavement finding players in pockets around the country and building relationships with former alums and christian coaches that look for players matching wheaton's standards. It was a committed staff that built this program among many other factors.

Apples and oranges, usee, apples and oranges. My point all along has been that NPU and Wheaton are not parallel institutions on or off the field, and therefore any analogies that you attempt to derive between them in terms of football success are suspect. Wheaton, by your own admission, built relationships with coaches and alums across the country. That is as it should be, because Wheaton recruits student-athletes nationally. North Park recruits nationally as well, but generally for students at large rather than student-athletes. NPU student-athletes are almost always recruited locally -- and it's with the local Chicagoland high school coaches that NPU has to build relationships. Since forty years of horrible football teams and subpar retention rates have scarred North Park's reputation with Chicagoland high school coaches, it's that much harder for Scott Pethtel or anyone else to change the school's reputation. By contrast, it's that much easier for him to, say, dip into his contacts in Michigan for recruits, since NPU does not carry that sort of gridiron opprobrium in his old haunts.

History matters.

Greg,

developing a program requires building relationships. wheaton did this  and now NPU is doing it. you make no sense other than to provide sweeping generalities that "history matters" and "NPU and Wheaton are not parallel institutions". I have no idea what you are talking about. maybe you are just making excuses for why NPU will fail again? the formula for building a winning college football team is the same at every level and every setting. the environment, circumstances, and traditions all vary but the formula for success is the same. You need good players and good coaches. to get that you have to have a consistent, committed staff that can recruit. If you get that you can win. That's all we are talking about.

[Pat Coleman]

I don't think those numbers are revenue from the outside (ticket sales, sponsors, etc.) -- I'm sure they're mostly money budgeted to the program by the school.

[79jaybird]

These last 2 pages of jabber can be summed up in a few words- "There are many factors that come into play" with regards to the overall success of a program (in any sport)
You need strong, talented players, a smart coach with a vision, you need the school and community to be interested and be supportive of the team, and ultimately the school has to be willing to "help out" as much as they can, not just in terms of $$.

On a different note,  I was looking at some of the CCIW overall matchups.  
Wheaton is close to evening up and taking over the lead on the overall series vs. Augustana.
Augustana is close to evening up/taking over the lead on IWU who by the way is the only current CCIW Team to have a winning record against Augie.

[Titanwatcher]

These last 2 pages of jabber can be summed up in a few words- "There are many factors that come into play" with regards to the overall success of a program (in any sport)
You need strong, talented players, a smart coach with a vision, you need the school and community to be interested and be supportive of the team, and ultimately the school has to be willing to "help out" as much as they can, not just in terms of $$.

On a different note,  I was looking at some of the CCIW overall matchups.  
Wheaton is close to evening up and taking over the lead on the overall series vs. Augustana.
Augustana is close to evening up/taking over the lead on IWU who by the way is the only current CCIW Team to have a winning record against Augie.

The last two pages of jabber? It is awfully early to start getting chippy with other conference schools, Bird.  understand your concern over the Evangelicals and the Covenants fighting, but to slander all posters with the word jabber,  you run the risk of turning this into the IBC board  Can't we all just get along?

[usee]

The last two pages of jabber? It is awfully early to start getting chippy with other conference schools, Bird.  understand your concern over the Evangelicals and the Covenants fighting, but to slander all posters with the word jabber,  you run the risk of turning this into the IBC board  Can't we all just get along?

I can only be considered "evangelical" if you use the simple biblical definition of one who spreads "the good news". I make no claim to any other social or political platform attributable to such a term. 8) 8)

[Titanwatcher]

The last two pages of jabber? It is awfully early to start getting chippy with other conference schools, Bird.  understand your concern over the Evangelicals and the Covenants fighting, but to slander all posters with the word jabber,  you run the risk of turning this into the IBC board  Can't we all just get along?

I can only be considered "evangelical" if you use the simple biblical definition of one who spreads "the good news". I make no claim to any other social or political platform attributable to such a term. 8) 8)

The term Evangelical was taken from  the term the press calls Rev Graham. No social or political platform was intended., Geez when a football board becomes PC, I have lost all hope. By the way, sorry to hear about Gerry Falwell

[79jaybird]

Whoa Titanwatcher,  I am not being "chippy" or instigating anything.  When I used the word jabber- I meant "chat"  and not throwing sticks,stones, etc.  at each other.  I think you took this the wrong way.  I was using "jabber" in the context as "to sum it up",  And in no way, shape, or form am I comparing religions here.  I don't know where that came from.

My point is just that there are many factors and pieces of a puzzle that have to come together, to have a program gain success. 

[Titanwatcher]

Whoa Titanwatcher,  I am not being "chippy" or instigating anything.  When I used the word jabber- I meant "chat"  and not throwing sticks,stones, etc.  at each other.  I think you took this the wrong way.  I was using "jabber" in the context as "to sum it up",  And in no way, shape, or form am I comparing religions here.  I don't know where that came from.

My point is just that there are many factors and pieces of a puzzle that have to come together, to have a program gain success. 

The meaning of jabber, as you can see, can only be taken as a negative.
From dictionary.com unabridged:  to talk or utter rapidly, indistinctly, incoherently, or nonsensically; chatter. 
–noun
I never said that you were comparing religions, I did that in a humerous context based on the    and the  . Lighten up, have some fun, i still love ya

[usee]

The last two pages of jabber? It is awfully early to start getting chippy with other conference schools, Bird.  understand your concern over the Evangelicals and the Covenants fighting, but to slander all posters with the word jabber,  you run the risk of turning this into the IBC board  Can't we all just get along?

I can only be considered "evangelical" if you use the simple biblical definition of one who spreads "the good news". I make no claim to any other social or political platform attributable to such a term. 8) 8)

The term Evangelical was taken from  the term the press calls Rev Graham. No social or political platform was intended., Geez when a football board becomes PC, I have lost all hope. By the way, sorry to hear about Gerry Falwell

Actually the term comes from the Koine Greek in the New Testament of the bible and it literally means "good news".

Reverend Graham was later labeled as such just as you describe and in modern times it has a host of other meanings and implied beliefs.

[Titanwatcher]

The last two pages of jabber? It is awfully early to start getting chippy with other conference schools, Bird.  understand your concern over the Evangelicals and the Covenants fighting, but to slander all posters with the word jabber,  you run the risk of turning this into the IBC board  Can't we all just get along?

I can only be considered "evangelical" if you use the simple biblical definition of one who spreads "the good news". I make no claim to any other social or political platform attributable to such a term. 8) 8)

The term Evangelical was taken from  the term the press calls Rev Graham. No social or political platform was intended., Geez when a football board becomes PC, I have lost all hope. By the way, sorry to hear about Gerry Falwell

Actually the term comes from the Koine Greek in the New Testament of the bible and it literally means "good news".

Reverend Graham was later labeled as such just as you describe and in modern times it has a host of other meanings and implied beliefs.

You have to love a good liberal arts education. Thanks for the info

[79jaybird]

Titanwatcher-- No biggy and all is well.  By no means am I a political or religious "combatant"   

The Jays and Augustana will be leaving for Europe here shortly.  Does anybody have an overall record of CCIW members vs. European Teams?

This is the first Euro trip for Elmhurst and I think this is a good venture by Tom Journell & Co.  I think this is a step in the right direction for a team that needs a step to look at the "big picture".

Off the subject, but does anybody know why Lake Forest and Carroll left the conference? 

[Mugsy]

Off the subject, but does anybody know why Lake Forest and Carroll left the conference? 

Jaybird,

I believe this has been discussed before somewhere on this board.  I'll search for the posts.

Until then, for Carroll I believe it was money.   The cost to travel to central Illinois for games against IWU, Augie and Millikin was significant.

[Mugsy]

Perhaps not... though I did find this.

Your conference has had the same teams except for 2 since the early 1940's. 

You're wrong on that score as well, ptownhero. The CCIW has had three schools permanently drop out over the years (Illinois College, Lake Forest, and Carroll), three schools drop out in the 1950s and then come back into the fold a decade later (Carthage, Wheaton, and Elmhurst), and added another team in the early 1960s that has been a part of the league ever since (North Park).

The only schools that have been continuous members since the league was founded in 1946 are Augustana, Illinois Wesleyan, Millikin, and North Central.

[79jaybird]

Thank you Mugsy.  While I understand that Waukesha to (AC/IWU/MU) is a long trip,  Waukesha is not THAT far away from Kenosha and still could be done in 1 day.  I was just looking at some of the history of CC and Lake Forest and they had some pretty good games against the (current) CCIW members. 

EC and IWU both have Olivet again this year.  IWU away and EC has the Comets at home.  I think this is going to be a difficult game for both teams.  Olivet is a fast team with a lot of talent returning.  I wouldn't be surprised if they win the MIAA this year.