FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[usee]

Off the subject, but does anybody know why Lake Forest and Carroll left the conference? 

I don't know anything about Lake Forest but I believe Carroll decided they didn't want to fund the athletic programs to maintain the level of the CCIW. They felt like they could be more competitive in their current conference while managing costs.  That's what I heard back when it happened anyway.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Off the subject, but does anybody know why Lake Forest and Carroll left the conference? 

Jaybird,

This has been discussed at least once before on this board.  I'll search for the posts.

Until then, for Carroll I believe it was money.   The cost to travel to central Illinois for games against IWU, Augie and Millikin was significant.

I haven't searched for the earlier discussion, but I'll speculate as to at least part of the reason:

Carroll was almost NEVER competitive in basketball - their 187-364 record (.339) is by far the worst of any conference member, past or present (though what they did to Augie in the tourney in March suggests they've come a long way!).  In football, however, they seem to have held their own (though only 1 outright title, and 1 shared title) - I couldn't find a cumulative record (and didn't have the ambition to add up year-by-year!) but they seem to have been around .500.  But their last four years they finished t1, 3, 4, 5 - perhaps they downgraded and feared they would no longer be competitive?

Lake Forest was so-so in basketball - their 85-112 (.432) record leaves them percentagewise ahead of Carthage, NCC, and Elmhurst, but they won no titles; they were strong in football in the 40s and early 50s (though only 2 title ties and no outright championships), but they tailed off badly at the end: 1960, 1-3-1; 1961, 0-6; 1962, 0-7.  Whatever other factors there may have been, I'd speculate that again it may have been a feeling that they couldn't compete well in the CCIW.

I've just now checked the posts by Mugsy and usee since I started typing - seem to be on the same track. 

[Mr. Ypsi]

Though in terms of travel costs, Mugsy: Monmouth, Knox, and (especially) Grinnell are farther from Waukesha than Bloomington, Decatur, and Rock Island!  Though their overall travel in the MWC MAY be less than if they had stayed in the CCIW (but not the case for Lake Forest).

[Gregory Sager]

developing a program requires building relationships. wheaton did this  and now NPU is doing it. you make no sense other than to provide sweeping generalities that "history matters" and "NPU and Wheaton are not parallel institutions".

I've provided more than sweeping generalities. I've outlined at length NPU's situational woes with regard to limited capital, space constraints, and the decline of urban high school football. I've explained why history matters, inasmuch as North Park recruits football players locally and the school has had such a poor reputation for so long in terms of the football student-athlete experience that many local high school coaches are wary of sending their players there.

I have no idea what you are talking about. maybe you are just making excuses for why NPU will fail again?

That's complete nonsense. In fact, I've been the one who has repeatedly taken the optimistic tack that the upgrading of football-specific facilities and the hiring of a head coach last spring who really appears to have the bead on what it takes to move the Vikings forward means that NPU has improved its chances of success.

the formula for building a winning college football team is the same at every level and every setting. the environment, circumstances, and traditions all vary but the formula for success is the same. You need good players and good coaches. to get that you have to have a consistent, committed staff that can recruit. If you get that you can win. That's all we are talking about.

That formula only works if you can get the good coaches in the first place. In other words, you're focusing upon the second step to success. The first step is to produce an institutional environment that allows you to hire the good coaches. That coaching carousel that NPU has endured for much of the last four decades has not existed in a vacuum, you know. I have had several people affiliated with North Park's athletic department tell me that they have not always been happy with the candidate pool when the head coaching position has been open in the past. And the coaches that have been hired have griped about the working conditions as much as the administration has griped about their losing and their poor retention rates.

The football situation is changing at North Park, and very much for the better. And it has started with the progress of the institution in making it easier for the coaches in all of the school's fifteen sports to succeed.

[WLCALUM83]

Heard about some Wisconsin prep players headed CCIW's direction:

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=603775

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=606363

[matblake]

Heard about some Wisconsin prep players headed CCIW's direction:
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=603775

Here are Steve Brusky's stats from last year according to JSOnline.  According to the link in the quote, he's headed to North Park.  http://www2.jsonline.com/sports/prep/stats/player.asp?id=18892

I think that his last name is funny, considering he went school in Milwaukee.

[matblake]

Heard about some Wisconsin prep players headed CCIW's direction:
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=606363

Here is the stats from last year for Jo Jo Meier, according to JSOnline, who according to the link above is headed to Carthage.  http://www2.jsonline.com/sports/prep/stats/player.asp?id=20585

[NCC_alum62]

Titanwatcher-- No biggy and all is well.  By no means am I a political or religious "combatant"   

The Jays and Augustana will be leaving for Europe here shortly.  Does anybody have an overall record of CCIW members vs. European Teams?

This is the first Euro trip for Elmhurst and I think this is a good venture by Tom Journell & Co.  I think this is a step in the right direction for a team that needs a step to look at the "big picture".

Off the subject, but does anybody know why Lake Forest and Carroll left the conference? 

I believe CCIW schools have run the table against European teams the past several years that they've been making the trips.  (I don't have exact historical analysis) But for the majority these teams have some size and a bit of speed but are not nearly as well coached or disciplined.

I think most of the last five years games have been pretty one sided affairs among the CCIW schools.  NCC won big in Italy, Auggie won big and IWU won big the last time those schools traveled abroad.

[79jaybird]

Hopefully Elmhurst & Augie can continue the tradition this year in Europe. 

Thank you to those responding to the Carroll/Lake Forest issue. 

[Mugsy]

Ok... Coach Swider's state of the union letter has been mailed, so I'm comfortable sharing the news:

1. Wheaton is returning 25 seniors, of which 6 are 5th year seniors.

2. In the offseason players participated in mission trips to Romania, Senegal and South Africa, which "provides our players with an experience that radically affects their lives, broadens their vision, and gives them an opportunity to serve."

3. Speed and strength records continue to fall each year.  This year Andy Studebaker broke his own power clean record with a lift of 400lbs - even more incredible when you consider that he is 6' 5".  The overall team record for power index was broken.  Alex Pokorny broke the 40 yd dash record with a time of 4.34 seconds.

4. Wheaton will be bringing in 26 new players for the 2007 season - 24 freshmen and 2 transfers.  15 different states are represented - 4 from Illinois and 3 from Texas.

I have info. on other changes as well, but I'm not comfortable sharing it at this point.  That's it for now.

Look for a huge 2007!

[New Tradition]

Titanwatcher-- No biggy and all is well.  By no means am I a political or religious "combatant"   

The Jays and Augustana will be leaving for Europe here shortly.  Does anybody have an overall record of CCIW members vs. European Teams?

This is the first Euro trip for Elmhurst and I think this is a good venture by Tom Journell & Co.  I think this is a step in the right direction for a team that needs a step to look at the "big picture".

Off the subject, but does anybody know why Lake Forest and Carroll left the conference? 

I believe CCIW schools have run the table against European teams the past several years that they've been making the trips.  (I don't have exact historical analysis) But for the majority these teams have some size and a bit of speed but are not nearly as well coached or disciplined.

I think most of the last five years games have been pretty one sided affairs among the CCIW schools.  NCC won big in Italy, Auggie won big and IWU won big the last time those schools traveled abroad.

We had a funny feeling that we were going to win in Italy when every member of the opposing team lit up a cigarette as they tied on their cleats and chugged a beer at halftime!   

[Mugsy]

Titanwatcher-- No biggy and all is well.  By no means am I a political or religious "combatant"   

The Jays and Augustana will be leaving for Europe here shortly.  Does anybody have an overall record of CCIW members vs. European Teams?

This is the first Euro trip for Elmhurst and I think this is a good venture by Tom Journell & Co.  I think this is a step in the right direction for a team that needs a step to look at the "big picture".

Off the subject, but does anybody know why Lake Forest and Carroll left the conference? 

I believe CCIW schools have run the table against European teams the past several years that they've been making the trips.  (I don't have exact historical analysis) But for the majority these teams have some size and a bit of speed but are not nearly as well coached or disciplined.

I think most of the last five years games have been pretty one sided affairs among the CCIW schools.  NCC won big in Italy, Auggie won big and IWU won big the last time those schools traveled abroad.

We had a funny feeling that we were going to win in Italy when every member of the opposing team lit up a cigarette as they tied on their cleats and chugged a beer at halftime!   

Recreational sports has a different mentality over in Europe.  It's not nearly as intense or competitive as in the states.

The team I was part of as a player/coach in Oxford, England beat a team from Cambridge 14-7 in a hard fought game. 

2 weeks later we lost to the exact same team 77-0!!!!   Upon entering the team bus, with a smile on his face one of the players said "Unlucky lads..."  UNLUCKY!?!?? Unlucky... you just got pasted 77-0 and you state that is was a lack of luck. 

77 points is perhaps the combined points for all games I participated in and lost from junior high through college.  And we did it in 2 hours!  The other Americans on the team and I were devastated and had a hard time dealing with such a huge loss.  To the Brits, it was no different than a 1 point loss.  A much different perspective on sports...

Now professional football (soccer), rugby and cricket... well that is a completely different story.  They are at the complete opposite end of the spectrum - as fanatical about there teams as can be.  They mourn and grieve any loss.

[Mugsy]

We had a funny feeling that we were going to win in Italy when every member of the opposing team lit up a cigarette as they tied on their cleats and chugged a beer at halftime!   

One other experience this reminds me of... and I'm not making any of this up.

My freshman year at Wheaton, we had a JV game against Joliet Correctional.  That's right, you read it correctly.  We played a JV football game IN PRISON!!!   Not quite like "The Longest Yard", but there were some similarities.

Anyway... we are warming up for the game and when prison team comes out.  They were massive and intimidating to say the least (other than their uniforms - red helmets, purple jersey and gray pants).  Clearly these guys did nothing all day other than lift weights.   We were already on edge having entered the prison through a myriad of gates and armed guards, along with walking through a build where all the prisoners were whistling, whooping it up and screaming "We got you now! We got you now!"

I was thinking, we're gonna die.  That was of course until they took 2 warm up laps around the field at a very slow jog, followed by half the team bent over breathing hard and the other half asking "where are our smokes".  Needless to say conditioning wasn't any where on their radar.

While they were clearly physical and there were some massive hits, they were on their best behavior.  Anything cheap or unsportsmanlike and I'm sure they would lose their privilege to play.  The game ended up a complete white wash.  I think we ended up winning 40 something to 6.

Couple of other interesting notes:
1. One of the endzones was only 6 yards deep as it butt right up to the prison wall.  The goal posts where painted onto the wall.  During the first extra point our kicker launched the ball over the prison wall, at which point one of the prison players exclaimed... "I'll get that!"  A good laugh for every one.

2. The fullback for the prison team was 6' 3", 260lbs and his body fat % was probably less than 7 or 8%.  He was put together.  He knocked out 2 of our defensive players - one with a concussion, one with a dislocated finger.  The player with a dislocated finger??  None only than Coach Swider.  At least half of the Wheaton coaches suited up for the game as well.  I remember Coach Swider getting on us to "get your head across on the tackle", "wrap up" and "put your face on his chest" when attempting to tackle the behemoth fullback.  To his credit (especially since he was a QB at Wheaton in his playing days), Coach Swider comes in as a DB and promptly applies a near perfect form tackle on the FB.  Perfect in form, but the result... he got completely run over, at which point he dislocated his finger.  As if he didn't already have the respect of everyone, that cement it... though we teased him about it.

[NCC_alum62]

We had a funny feeling that we were going to win in Italy when every member of the opposing team lit up a cigarette as they tied on their cleats and chugged a beer at halftime!   

One other experience this reminds me of... and I'm not making any of this up.

My freshman year at Wheaton, we had a JV game against Joliet Correctional.  That's right, you read it correctly.  We played a JV football game IN PRISON!!!   Not quite like "The Longest Yard", but there were some similarities.

Anyway... we are warming up for the game and when prison team comes out.  They were massive and intimidating to say the least (other than their uniforms - red helmets, purple jersey and gray pants).  Clearly these guys did nothing all day other than lift weights.   We were already on edge having entered the prison through a myriad of gates and armed guards, along with walking through a build where all the prisoners were whistling, whooting it up and screaming "We got you now! We got you now!"

I was thinking, we're gonna die.  That was of course until they took 2 warm up laps around the field at a very slow jog, followed by half the team bent over breathing hard and the other half asking "where are our smokes".  Needless to say conditioning wasn't any where on their radar.

While they were clearly physical and there were some massive hits, they were on their best behavior.  Anything cheap or unsportsmanlike and I'm sure they would lose their privilege to play.  The game ended up a complete white wash.  I think we ended up winning 40 something to 6.

Couple of other interesting notes:
1. One of the endzones was only 6 yards deep as it butt right up to the prison wall.  The goal posts where painted onto the wall.  During the first extra point our kicker launched the ball over the prison wall, at which point one of the prison players exclaimed... "I'll get that!"  A good laugh for every one.

2. The fullback for the prison team was 6' 3", 260lbs and his body fat % was probably less than 7 or 8%.  He was put together.  He knocked out 2 of our defensive players - one with a concussion, one with a dislocated finger.  The player with a dislocated finger??  None only than Coach Swider.  At least half of the Wheaton coaches suited up for the game as well.  I remember Coach Swider getting on us to "get your head across on the tackle", "wrap up" and "put your face on his chest" when attempting to tackle the behemoth fullback.  To his credit (especially since he was a QB at Wheaton in his playing days), Coach Swider comes in as a DB and promptly applies a near perfect form tackle on the FB.  Perfect in form, but the result... he got completely run over, at which point he dislocated his finger.  As if he didn't already have the respect of everyone, that cement it... though we teased him about it.

NOW THAT IS A FREAKIN STORY...

HAHAHA Amazing...

I had that thought about teams going to CPS schools, we played some bad looking kids sometimes. Marching bands that had du-rags as part of the band uniform and a team that lined up the three biggest RB's I'd ever seen in a backfield easily they had to all have been 6'1 to 6'3 240-260 lbs.  We ended up winning, but they were bruisers.

[lakeshore]

Heard about some Wisconsin prep players headed CCIW's direction:
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=603775

Here are Steve Brusky's stats from last year according to JSOnline.  According to the link in the quote, he's headed to North Park.  http://www2.jsonline.com/sports/prep/stats/player.asp?id=18892

I think that his last name is funny, considering he went school in Milwaukee.

I believe NPU has recruited Brusky to play on the defensive side of the ball.  OLB or SS