FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[thundermike11]

Congratulations to the Thunder on a great season. I really wish at least one of the playoff games would have been at home, but oh well. This team never quit and played unbelievable the last few weeks. You made this school proud.

[thunderdog]

... am I the only one that believes we should petition Dr. Litfin and get the Wheaton colors changed from orange-and-blue to

orange-and-blue-and-PURPLE???

[thunderdog]

I know that technically the 6 at-large playoff bids are handed out on a year-by year basis, but don't you think that Wheaton's performance this year just might do a little bit more than "just help" the CCIW get 2 teams into the playoffs more often than not?

Maybe the CCIW can start to approach the WIAC and OAC in this respect...

[lakeshore]

congrats to the Wheaties...I think Norris is a very underated QB.

[burly]

WHEATON PLAYED SO BAD THEY DON'T DESERVE TO BE ON ESPN. 

Screaming in all caps that Wheaton doesn't deserve something?

YEAH... I'VE BEEN UPSET WITH REDMAN04 FOR MORE THAN A YEAR ABOUT MY TAG NAME!  

It was a great year for the Thunder.  It's been said before, but they were left for dead after a dismal performance at Elmhurst, responded against the charter school in Kenosha and made it to the playoffs.  Then, as Mugsy noted, they beat Trine, Wabash, Franklin and lost to the best team in the country.  So be it - life goes on.  And although we're not there yet, we'll get there, you can count on it.  Regardless, those guys carried the torch for Wheaton, it's former and future players, and represented the CCIW well.

Now, I'm ready to change Redman04's tag name, so I'll throw it out to the board.  Any ideas from Mr. Redman04?  Personally, I like something that includes Maverick and McCain, but I'm sure we can think of something better.  Thoughts?

[Augie6]

I know that technically the 6 at-large playoff bids are handed out on a year-by year basis, but don't you think that Wheaton's performance this year just might do a little bit more than "just help" the CCIW get 2 teams into the playoffs more often than not?

Maybe the CCIW can start to approach the WIAC and OAC in this respect...

Not really sure what you're getting at here.  I think what Wheaton's performance did was solidify people's perceptions that the CCIW is one of the better conferences in D3 and justifies the conference getting 2 teams in the playoffs 4 of the past 5 years.  I don't think it really "helps" anything from that perspective.  IMO, anytime the CCIW has two teams with no more than one loss on the season, they stand a very good chance of getting both teams in the playoffs.  The fact that Wheaton got in with two losses this year, says to me that the selection committee already had a healthy respect for the quality of football played in the CCIW.  If you're hinting that Wheaton's run will somehow lead to a guarantee of two CCIW teams in the playoffs every year, that will only be the case if non AQ team earns it on the field by posting a better resume than other Pool C candidates.

[usee]

Agreed Augie6. The selection process is pretty defined. A CCIW team will never get in the playoffs with 2 losses over a team with only 1 loss. This year the CCIW's reputation allowed them to get in even though Wooster was ranked ahead of them in the region the week prior. Wheaton was obviously able to jump Wooster in the final rankings and get the table early as one of the 2-loss teams. Without that, Wooster may have gotten in even though they lost to Wabash and Case Western.

[Son of Tailgater]

What would be the circumstances that a team would move up divisions? With MUC dominating year after year you would have the think those ideas have been floating around.

[jaypeter]

Yes, the ideas have been floating around about Mount Union for a long time...being floated by everybody that is not associated with Mount Union.  If you want to see why it won't work or won't happen, look through the archives of the OAC board.  Very old story.

[Kira & Jaxon's Dad]

What would be the circumstances that a team would move up divisions? With MUC dominating year after year you would have the think those ideas have been floating around.

So tired of this discussion...

[seventiesraider]

Move Whitewater up, their 5 times bigger than most of the rest of us.

[SaintsFAN]

What would be the circumstances that a team would move up divisions? With MUC dominating year after year you would have the think those ideas have been floating around.

Only in the minds of people that forget these colleges (MUC included) have mission statements that fits with the rest of Division 3.  You can't pick one sport to move up... what about Kenyon Swimming?  They are MUCH more impressive with their streak (no offense Mount fans). 

So I guess your answer would be.... if the entire school is looking to move up a division... like Northern Kentucky University is doing now.  They are in the beginning phases... because it will fit philosophically with where they are trying to go.  If you want proof.. look at pictures of their new basketball arena (for now they are D2)... google Bank of Kentucky Arena.

[Drez]

What would be the circumstances that a team would move up divisions? With MUC dominating year after year you would have the think those ideas have been floating around.

I wondered how long it would take this topic to come up this week. I look forward to rehashing it again in January.

[New Tradition]

What would be the circumstances that a team would move up divisions? With MUC dominating year after year you would have the think those ideas have been floating around.

Whoa, guys...I know you get sick of hearing it, but I don't think SOT is saying that MUC needs to move up like the other chuckle heads that post stuff like that on your board.  He's just curious about what that would entail.  And also the fact that he's asking this question means he hasn't been on the OAC boards at all.  But he's a good guy.  SOT, here are some quotes from the OAC board that I think would answer your question nicely (the topic is brought up pretty often in the OAC room and they get pretty upset about having to talk about it over and over again, just for future reference):

Here is the letter that Raiderpa is referring to:

Sound Off: Mount Union has outgrown the OAC

Garbage.  That guy might be an Otterbein grad but he shows he has about as much knowledge on the situation at the other idiots that spout off about moving MUC to DI or DII. 

"The coaches should feel shame for continuing to stay on the field just to run up the score in order to set school records."

Give me a break.  If anyone thinks MUC's objective is to run scores up solely for the purpose of breaking records, they're clueless.  When a team is playing third stringers at the half, they're trying to keep the scoring down.  Apparently he'd feel better if the coaches left the sidelines for some reason.

"At least five colleges have left the OAC since 1952 — Hiram, Wittenberg, Kenyon, Wooster and Ohio Wesleyan..."

I'm wondering if 1952 isn't when this guy graduated from old OC.  Seems like an odd year to set as a benchmark.  Not to mention that the OAC had as members in 1952: Wooster, OWU, Denison, Hiram, Akron, Kenyon, Oberlin and Wittenberg; all of whom have left the OAC.  Saying five schools have left the OAC is like saying there are at least 5 people in the state of Ohio.  Yeah it's true, but to prove what point.  Is he insinuating that they left because of MUC?  Because if that's the case, then why not just say Findlay, Bowling Green, Case, Toledo, Dayton and Kent State all left the OAC at some point too.  I wonder if singling out the five he did is a sign that he doesn't really know that much about the OAC in the first place or if the omission of other noteworthy schools was merely an oversight.  Either way, it seems odd to point to 1952 and reference a team that left after 1999 (Hiram). 


Real competitors want to beat the best.  They don't duck.  They don't run.  They step up to the challenge.  If you can't beat the best, you know you gave your best trying and you gained something for it.  If you don't subscribe to that philosophy, then you can a.) skip the box scores in the paper that week, b.) settle to take your beating year after year or c.) apply for membership in the NCAC

rc,
It's an ignorant emotional rant by someone who obviously hasn't looked at the whole picture.  If Mount Union were dominating all or most sports in the OAC, he might have a point, but even then other things would outweigh Mount Union leaving D3.
Good thing his Cardinals don't compete against Kenyon in swimming!  Otterbein is only about 20 miles from Kenyon and twice the size of Kenyon.  Just because Otterbein couldn't outswim Kenyon in a bath tub isn't anymore reason for Kenyon to leave D3 than it would be for Mount Union.
All I see is sour grapes.

I did not find the letter funny - I found it sad. It is a statement of what is wrong with this country. The WWII generation did not cry, whine and moan - they picked themselves up, dusted off their butt and forged ahead. Ever since it has been a downward slide into mediocrity. It has become acceptable to not get better, tougher, faster, stronger - instead we wait for the top dog to move somewhere else while we stay the same and claim to be better than before after they are gone. My high school moved conferences from the NOL to the NCC (no contact conference). They claimed they could not compete in the NOL and everyone bought it. The problem is the school still has ZERO titles to show and can't even beat the best team in the conference (0 for 10). So let's say Mount goes away - will OTT suddenly become better? They had their chance to shine in the playoffs this year.............what happened? I hate to tell Mr. Myers where to seek advice from but...........oh well.....I will anyway. Bambord posted the link to lawpundit a few days ago. Advice for all OAC teams comes from the legend himself. LK is quoted as saying:
"I always try to get the assistant coaches who work with me to understand that if there's no learning by the kids, there's no teaching.... I've tried hard to get the coaches to accept that as the only measure of performance, and there are just no excuses accepted. If there's no learning, there's no teaching....."  That is a start. Teach the kids how to play better, how to be better.
Hey here is another one and this one really speaks volumes:
When he [Kehres] thinks back to the start of the run that began Mount Union's dominance, Kehres remembers a meeting held among the team's staff in the early '80s when he was an assistant. "We just decided to quit pouting about what we didn't have and concentrate on improving the players we had", Kehres said.

Now back to the playoffs! Go Raiders!!

And finally:

Welcome to the New America.  There can be no really great teams, and no really bad teams.  Everyone must have their ups and downs.  There can be no really great businesses, and no really bad businesses, all businesses must work together to ensure that everyone is equal at all times.

Does this sound like Atlas Shrugged to anyone else?  For the last time, it's not as simple as moving a football team.  It may come as a surprise to many, but Mount Union offers athletic programs all year round for both men and women!

Also, most of these quotes are from people who support OTHER OAC schools.  I tried to get a pretty good cross section of the opinions of the OAC as a whole.  Almost nobody over there thinks Mount should go (nor can they, really) and they have to deal with the Purple Raiders every year.

[redman04]

NT agreed... SOT wasn't saying they should... just asking is it something they would do. I know that you are probably sick of hearing it, but we are not in touch with MUC's mission statement.  It has happened before.  Look at hobart Lacrosse.
Personally, I don't care what MUC does. They are a great team and are great for D3 football.

70's I agree with what you are saying.  UWW has 10,000 students.  I have never understood how they are d3