FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[usee]

From the Jacksonvilled Jaguars website:

Three undrafted players were attention-grabbers: San Diego State linebacker Russell Allen, UConn defensive end Julius Williams and Wheaton cornerback Pete Ittersagen. Wheaton is Division Three but Ittersagen never appeared overwhelmed. He has quick feet and coverage smarts and has the look of a guy who could play safety, too.

[usee]

And indeed it's true....Joe Davis is the new Wheaton Offensive Coordinator.

http://athletics.wheaton.edu/news/2009/5/4/FB_joedavishire.aspx?path=football

[Gregory Sager]

Actually, the NPU hire is accurate.

I didn't say it wasn't -- I haven't been on campus lately, and it's been several weeks since I spoke with Coach Pethtel, so I had no info on whether or not Wheaton was pursuing Joe Davis. My comment to USee was aimed more at Zorba's using the rumor of Davis going from NPU to Wheaton as a pretext to get in his annual dig at the Vikings.

I like Joe. I don't know whether he'll fit in at Wheaton or not, but he's certainly a hard worker. And if Wheaton needs a basketball P.A. announcer next season, Joe's certainly the most colorful candidate that Tony Ladd will ever be able to find for the job.

[orsky]

Greg,

I wasn't commenting on your statement.  I was commenting on Usee's.  He used the term "don't know about the accuracy"  and I simple stated that it was in fact accurate.

I hope it works out well and know that the players are excited.

[Gregory Sager]

OK, thanks, Orsky.

(I'll bet that the players at NPU are none too thrilled by this development, though. It's one thing for a coach to leave the Park to work at another school. But when that other school is Wheaton ...)

[usee]

Its also tough timing.losing such a key position in may is hard.I wonder if Joe contacted Wheaton or visa versa.

[Gregory Sager]

Dunno, but I've already received a secondhand report from an NPU athletics insider that there's a lot of grumbling among the players about Davis's departure. I can't deduce from the report whether the ill will is because of the timing, or because of the fact that Wheaton, of all schools, is the program for which he abandoned ship. Both are entirely logical explanations for that anger, of course.

[CardinalAlum]

I can't deduce from the report whether the ill will is because of the timing, or because of the fact that Wheaton, of all schools, is the program for which he abandoned ship. Both are entirely logical explanations for that anger, of course.

Never realized there was such "bad" blood between the schools, for lack of a better word. 

[Gregory Sager]

I can't deduce from the report whether the ill will is because of the timing, or because of the fact that Wheaton, of all schools, is the program for which he abandoned ship. Both are entirely logical explanations for that anger, of course.

Never realized there was such "bad" blood between the schools, for lack of a better word. 

The Wheaties are barely aware of NPU's existence, CA, but Wheaton is far and away the bete noire of North Park. It's inescapable -- NPU students are reminded early and often during their sojourn on campus that they are not supposed to have any warm feelings whatsoever towards Wheaton College. Wheaton jokes are a staple of Homecoming plays and other student-written productions on the NPU campus. April Lee tells the story of how she was traumatized when she came to speak at a class at NPU for some academic reason or other; when she replied, "Wheaton," when asked what school she attended, the entire class apparently burst into laughter. A few years ago on the first day of New Student Orientation a large sign was posted on the NPU campus's footbridge across the Chicago River that said, "Thank you for not choosing Wheaton!" And the most famous April Fool's Day issue in the history of North Park's student newspaper (the April 1, 1971 issue) consisted of a huge picture of a Nazi rally that took up the entire front page above the fold, with a headline below it that said, "Homecoming at Wheaton College".

Indeed, sometimes it even seems as though a hearty dislike of Wheaton is the one thing that all Parkers have in common. And turncoat behavior like that of Joe Davis draws out the ire more than anything. A couple of decades ago, when it was publicly disclosed that North Park religion professor Gary Burge was resigning in order to teach at Wheaton, he make a public statement that he was going to "be an advocate for North Park on the Wheaton campus," and the joke at the time was that he said it so that he wouldn't get lynched and strung up from the branches of the big tree out in front of Old Main.

The frowny-face sentiment that Parkers have towards Wheaton is mostly just in fun, but there are some genuine issues regarding Wheaton (and a certain degree of misunderstanding as well) underlying those feelings that give that animosity some teeth at times. This dislike is not based upon athletics, either (although the ire of Parkers towards Wheaton comes out the most when a Vikings team plays Wheaton); Wheaton usually stomps NPU in just about every sport, and when North Park was the school doing the stomping it was typically in a sport or during an era in which Wheaton didn't really care one way or the other. You and your fellow Cardinals gridders have an instilled dislike of Wheaton because of your Little Brass Bell rivalry, but it's not really a school-wide thing for NCC. Well, NPU's disdain of Wheaton involves lots and lots of people who don't give a fig about athletics at all. It's institutionally-based, not sports-based ... and, as the 1971 school newspaper showed, it's an ancient grudge among Parkers.

NPU's animosity towards Wheaton is definitely directed towards the institution of Wheaton College itself rather than it being a personal thing, though, as a large percentage of Parkers have friends who are Wheaties. Evangelical kids tend to travel in a lot of the same circles, which is why so many peers split between the two schools, and as alumni they tend to congregate (literally) together as well. I have an aversion to that orange-colored school in DuPage County that takes a backseat to no one among Parkers, and yet I probably have as many Wheaton alumni friends as I do of any school apart from North Park itself. There is even documented evidence of -- gasp -- mixed marriages between the two sets of alumni. I can think of a regular in this room who can attest to it firsthand.

[matblake]

I can't deduce from the report whether the ill will is because of the timing, or because of the fact that Wheaton, of all schools, is the program for which he abandoned ship. Both are entirely logical explanations for that anger, of course.

Never realized there was such "bad" blood between the schools, for lack of a better word. 

Wheaton's more recent domination on the scoreboard (wasn't always that way) has tended to make the rivalry run more one way as of late.  However, recently there have been some hotly contested debates with regards to the soccer teams.  If you asked a generic Wheaton student which CCIW school they disliked the most (assuming you got one that knew Wheaton played sports or who the conference opponents are   ) I would say that it would be Augustana or possibly North Central, if they were closer to the football program.  

While I was typing, Sager brought out a heavy duty Sagerian post.  But, he is right on point.  Sager will be happy that the tables are turned every time I attend church.  A member of one of the National Championship basketball teams attends as well as a plethora of other NP alums.  Sometimes their disdain for me is palpable.   

[Gregory Sager]

Wheaton's more recent domination on the scoreboard (wasn't always that way) has tended to make the rivalry run more one way as of late.  However, recently there have been some hotly contested debates with regards to the soccer teams.

Agreed. Soccer seems to be the one aspect of Wheaton athletics in which NPU has gotten onto WC's rivalry radar. Of course, as I said Wheaton folks tend to have a pretty benign view of North Park, and MB is exactly right when he says that some of the reason why Wheaties don't reciprocate NPU's animosity is because an awful lot of them don't pay any attention at all to Wheaton sports. That indifference to the school's sports teams is increasingly becoming the case at North Park, too -- alas, for all the wrong reasons.

While I was typing, Sager brought out a heavy duty Sagerian post.  But, he is right on point.  Sager will be happy that the tables are turned every time I attend church.  A member of one of the National Championship basketball teams attends as well as a plethora of other NP alums.  Sometimes their disdain for me is palpable.   

Naperville Covenant? That seems to be where a lot of NPC basketball alumni have ended up. Or do I remember you saying once that you attended Glen Ellyn Covenant? Yeah, I can see where a congregation filled with Parkers in which you're the lone son of the orange and blue would be a vexing problem for you -- although I would imagine that among the basketball alumni it would be an Illinois Wesleyan alumnus in the pews who would prove to be the sternest test of their devotion to Christian brotherhood.

[DIIIinVA]

Gregory Sager, I spent 4 years at Wheaton and have been a proud alum for 15+, and I can honestly say I had no idea that there was Wheaton resentment at North Park, or the perception of a rivalry.  Zip.  Zero.  None.  Coming from VA to Wheaton, I had never even heard of NP.  I think I was a Jr or Sr in college before I learned NP was Christian-affiliated in any way.  I guess that lends credence to your observation that "the Wheaties are barely aware of NPU's existence."  Or maybe I was just particularly clueless.  Since graduating I have found out from alums of other schools that there is institutional Wheaton resentment at Taylor, Gordon, Liberty U, Westmont, Cedarville, Covenant, Bethel, Calvin, Moody and a few others.  So I shouldn't be surprised at having to add North Park to the list. ;-)

The one time I can recall Wheaton getting worked up for a football game vs. NP was in 1990, when Viking QB John Love was getting a lot of (deserved) national attention and putting up some gaudy stats.  The D got worked up into a frenzy wanting to stop Love and hold him below his averages, and from what I recall did a pretty good job of it.  The background music for the Wheaton vs. North Park portion of Wheaton's 1990 season highlight video is The Call's "Let the Day Begin" (prominently featuring the lyrics "Here's to you, my little [L]ove"), and shows every Wheaton sack and INT in the 50-10 win. 

Hmmm, maybe I can see where some of the resentment comes from after all.

[matblake]

Naperville Covenant? That seems to be where a lot of NPC basketball alumni have ended up. Or do I remember you saying once that you attended Glen Ellyn Covenant?

I think Mugsy is at Glen Ellyn Covenant.  I actually attend Faith Covenant in Farmington Hills, MI.  Just the one basketball alumnus (to my knowledge anyway) but plenty of those Parkers to go around.  I have yet to find an IWU alumnus, but one could understand why someone wouldn't be broadcasting that anyway.   

[Mugsy]

Naperville Covenant? That seems to be where a lot of NPC basketball alumni have ended up. Or do I remember you saying once that you attended Glen Ellyn Covenant?

I think Mugsy is at Glen Ellyn Covenant.  I actually attend Faith Covenant in Farmington Hills, MI.  Just the one basketball alumnus (to my knowledge anyway) but plenty of those Parkers to go around.  I have yet to find an IWU alumnus, but one could understand why someone wouldn't be broadcasting that anyway.   

Yup, I'm at Glen Ellyn Covenant Church.  You want to talk about a congregation with conflicted affliation between NPU and Wheaton.  For those who don't know, Glen Ellyn is one town over from Wheaton.  What probably draws the ire of NPU alum who attend the church is that there are probably more Wheaton alum in membership to the church than NPU and in recent years, far more kids of the church have been going to Wheaton than North Park - this despite continual programs encouraging the youth of the church to consider North Park.  In fact there have been 4 multi-year starters for Wheaton College from Glen Ellyn Covenant Church over the past 20 years and 0 to North Park.

While a former football player, coach and graduate of Wheaton, I do have a deep respect for North Park.  Don't get me wrong, I will always root for a Wheaton victory over the Park...  That said I can't pull myself to sign the checks for donations to North Park, and my wife makes me handle the checks to Wheaton.  I'm sure there will be some interesting conversations once our kids near their college years.

With regards to DIIIVa's comments about the 1990 game and John Love, yes, that game had heighten intensity as he was an amazing QB.  I was a coach that year and Bishop & Swider often reflected on how good Wheaton would have been with him leading the offense.

Via Sager:

I have an aversion to that orange-colored school in DuPage County that takes a backseat to no one among Parkers, and yet I probably have as many Wheaton alumni friends as I do of any school apart from North Park itself. There is even documented evidence of -- gasp -- mixed marriages between the two sets of alumni. I can think of a regular in this room who can attest to it firsthand.

This made me laugh... I never thought of myself in a "mixed marriage".  My wife got a chuckle that she was indirectly involved in a posting on D3Football.com.

[Mugsy]

An interesting side note is that there was hardly ripple of controversy when former and now returned coach Len VanDen Bos was a member of the coaching staff at North Park for 2 years.