FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[oldnuthin]

IWU hs their recruit class up.

http://www.iwusports.com/sports/2009/3/31/WGOLF_0331092152.aspx?tab=titanclassof2013

[Gregory Sager]

Gregory Sager, I spent 4 years at Wheaton and have been a proud alum for 15+, and I can honestly say I had no idea that there was Wheaton resentment at North Park, or the perception of a rivalry.  Zip.  Zero.  None.  Coming from VA to Wheaton, I had never even heard of NP.  I think I was a Jr or Sr in college before I learned NP was Christian-affiliated in any way.  I guess that lends credence to your observation that "the Wheaties are barely aware of NPU's existence."  Or maybe I was just particularly clueless.  Since graduating I have found out from alums of other schools that there is institutional Wheaton resentment at Taylor, Gordon, Liberty U, Westmont, Cedarville, Covenant, Bethel, Calvin, Moody and a few others.  So I shouldn't be surprised at having to add North Park to the list. ;-)

It's not the same thing at all. Yeah, there is some resentment among Parkers that Wheaton gets all that national media attention, as there is at those other Christian schools you mentioned, but that's not even close to being the primary source of NPU's animosity towards Wheaton.

The one time I can recall Wheaton getting worked up for a football game vs. NP was in 1990, when Viking QB John Love was getting a lot of (deserved) national attention and putting up some gaudy stats.  The D got worked up into a frenzy wanting to stop Love and hold him below his averages, and from what I recall did a pretty good job of it.  The background music for the Wheaton vs. North Park portion of Wheaton's 1990 season highlight video is The Call's "Let the Day Begin" (prominently featuring the lyrics "Here's to you, my little [L]ove"), and shows every Wheaton sack and INT in the 50-10 win. 

Hmmm, maybe I can see where some of the resentment comes from after all.

Hmmm, maybe you can't.

As I said before, it's not a sports-based animosity at all. NPU loses so often to Wheaton in so many sports that (aside from soccer, and, vestigially, basketball) it doesn't sting all that much. It's certainly never caused any widespread and/or lingering resentment over the past thirty years to lose to Wheaton in football, a sport in which North Park has been so bad for so long that the student body is trained from Day One to be completely indifferent to it. I can guarantee that, aside from perhaps Dennis Prikkel, everyone at the game who supported North Park (aside from the football players and coaching staff) forgot about that 50-10 loss within a few hours after the game ended; meanwhile, the vast majority of the North Park campus community never even bothered to show up to watch the game in the first place, even if it was at Hedstrand Field. (If it was at McCully Field, I doubt that more than a handful of non-football-playing NPC students were even aware that the football team was playing Wheaton that week.)

It's an institutional thing, not an athletics thing. Trust me.

Naperville Covenant? That seems to be where a lot of NPC basketball alumni have ended up. Or do I remember you saying once that you attended Glen Ellyn Covenant?

I think Mugsy is at Glen Ellyn Covenant.  I actually attend Faith Covenant in Farmington Hills, MI.  Just the one basketball alumnus (to my knowledge anyway) but plenty of those Parkers to go around.

Ah, Lars Anderson ... captain of the '85 national championship team and one of only two players in North Park history to register a triple-double. Say hi to Lars and Rhonda for me, please!

I have yet to find an IWU alumnus, but one could understand why someone wouldn't be broadcasting that anyway.  

Well, that goes without saying, doesn't it?

Yup, I'm at Glen Ellyn Covenant Church.  You want to talk about a congregation with conflicted affliation between NPU and Wheaton.  For those who don't know, Glen Ellyn is one town over from Wheaton.  What probably draws the ire of NPU alum who attend the church is that there are probably more Wheaton alum in membership to the church than NPU and in recent years, far more kids of the church have been going to Wheaton than North Park - this despite continual programs encouraging the youth of the church to consider North Park.  In fact there have been 4 multi-year starters for Wheaton College from Glen Ellyn Covenant Church over the past 20 years and 0 to North Park.

Well, if you're talking about a high-school football player, it's really no contest if North Park and Wheaton are both recruiting you. Unless playing right away as a freshman is your primary motivation, Wheaton's gonna win that battle every time. As an NPU alumnus, I'm a lot more concerned with non-athlete high-schoolers from Glen Ellyn Covenant choosing the Dark Side over the Park.

I can certainly identify, though. My home church (Redeemer Covenant in Liverpool, NY) was dominated by Wheaties rather than Parkers, too, and since I made a visit to both schools when I was a senior in high school I was under a lot of pressure from the adults in my church to choose Wheaton over North Park.

While a former football player, coach and graduate of Wheaton, I do have a deep respect for North Park.  Don't get me wrong, I will always root for a Wheaton victory over the Park...  That said I can't pull myself to sign the checks for donations to North Park, and my wife makes me handle the checks to Wheaton.  I'm sure there will be some interesting conversations once our kids near their college years.

That's a judicious division of labor in order to keep marital peace, Mugsy. And "interesting" is probably a humorous understatement when it comes to those future college-choice conversations.

This made me laugh... I never thought of myself in a "mixed marriage".  My wife got a chuckle that she was indirectly involved in a posting on D3Football.com.

I had a North Park friend with whom I'd lost touch that I saw a few years ago at an NPU Homecoming football game. She informed me that she had gotten married in the interval and introduced me to her new husband ... who, as it turned out, was a Wheaton alumnus. I jokingly asked them how the mixed-marriage thing was working out for them and she said, "Well, we pray for each other a lot."

It was a very well-worded answer, and I got the feeling that I wasn't the first person she'd said it to.

A guy who has been a friend of mine since childhood, who happens to be a good Covie boy and a North Park alumnus and who is now a prof at Fuller Seminary in southern California, married a Wheaton alumna. When he introduced her to me he said (elbowing me in the ribs), "Ask her where she went to school."

When I asked, she said, "Wheaton." Before I could say another word, she added, "That's where I learned how to smoke, drink, and swear!"

An interesting side note is that there was hardly ripple of controversy when former and now returned coach Len VanDen Bos was a member of the coaching staff at North Park for 2 years.

True, but:

a) Van Den Bos was a Wheaton guy to begin with;
b) He wasn't a full-time employee at NPU, and Davis was;
c) He wasn't a coordinator and didn't have associate head coach status (i.e, Van Den Bos didn't have the high profile among both players and prospects that Davis had);
d) He didn't have Davis's public profile on campus; as I indicated, Davis was a notably colorful (and highly partisan) P.A. announcer for Vikings basketball games over the past couple of winters

[Gregory Sager]

This sure didn't take long. Here's NPU SID Kevin Shepke's newest press release:

* * *

CHICAGO, IL (May 7, 2009) – The North Park athletic department introduced Todd Winter as its new offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach this week.

Winter, the former head football coach at Class 5A Johnsburg High School, succeeds Joe Davis, who stepped down to accept the same position at CCIW rival Wheaton College.

Winter brings a solid background and depth of experience in coordinating offenses to the Viking football program. In addition to serving as head coach at Johnsburg High School for the past 3 years, he has also been the head football coach at Anderson High School in Anderson Indiana, Ritenour High School and Oakville High School, both in St. Louis, MO. What's more is that Todd's experience as an assistant coach at Washington University, St. Louis gives him an understanding of Division III college football at a very competitive school.

Not only is Coach Winter an accomplished teacher of the game, but he was solid player as well. As an undergraduate, Todd was a three-year letter winner at the University of Evansville and he earned a partial scholarship to play at Saint Joseph's College. And, because of his connections to the high school coaches in three different states, Todd has the ability to help us out tremendously on the recruiting front as well. He is a member of the Illinois High School Football Coaches Association and is a former member of the Indiana High School Football Coaches Association where he was the Director of Region 5 from 2005-'06. He has also served as a member the 5A IFCA Rating Board and as a member of 5A All-State Selection Committee.

In the 2008 campaign North Park Vikings football accomplished some successful statistics both academically and athletically. Ten different Vikings were named to the College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin Academic All-Conference team and one senior athlete was amongst only four student-athletes from the CCIW to be recognized as a member of the National Football Foundation National Honor Society.

Athletically, junior quarterback Shelby Wood set two different single season records for completions (181) and completion percentage (54%), while tying the single season record for touchdown passes (19). Defensively the Vikings ranked third against the pass and in special teams play they led the conference in point after touchdowns with a perfect 21-for-21.

* * *

The alacrity with which NPU hired a replacement for Davis leads me to believe that Joe's departure was in the offing for quite awhile.

Next time I see Kevin I'll have to high-five him for saying that Davis "stepped down to assume the same position at CCIW rival Wheaton College." Kevin may be relatively new to NPU, but he's beginning to figure out what his audience wants to hear.

[Mugsy]

An interesting side note is that there was hardly ripple of controversy when former and now returned coach Len VanDen Bos was a member of the coaching staff at North Park for 2 years.

True, but:

a) Van Den Bos was a Wheaton guy to begin with;
b) He wasn't a full-time employee at NPU, and Davis was;
c) He wasn't a coordinator and didn't have associate head coach status (i.e, Van Den Bos didn't have the high profile among both players and prospects that Davis had);
d) He didn't have Davis's public profile on campus; as I indicated, Davis was a notably colorful (and highly partisan) P.A. announcer for Vikings basketball games over the past couple of winters

GS, thanks for the context.  Yes, I was keenly aware of Van Den Bos' years at Wheaton prior to going to NPU.  I was on staff for some of those years.  I was not aware of the depth of responsibility and visibility that Davis held on the NPU campus.  That does make a considerable difference in the 2 cases.

[Mugsy]

Well, if you're talking about a high-school football player, it's really no contest if North Park and Wheaton are both recruiting you. Unless playing right away as a freshman is your primary motivation, Wheaton's gonna win that battle every time. As an NPU alumnus, I'm a lot more concerned with non-athlete high-schoolers from Glen Ellyn Covenant choosing the Dark Side over the Park.

I can certainly identify, though. My home church (Redeemer Covenant in Liverpool, NY) was dominated by Wheaties rather than Parkers, too, and since I made a visit to both schools when I was a senior in high school I was under a lot of pressure from the adults in my church to choose Wheaton over North Park.

Very true about recruiting focus.  As a life long "Covie" kid and Chicagoland high school footballer, I was contacted by then NP football coach, I think it was Liljegren.  I was promised a starting position at OLB as a freshman.  While I ended up playing at right around 200lbs by junior and senior year at Wheaton, I was about 165lbs as a freshman.  While it is possible I could have started at NP as a freshman (I did make the traveling squad at Wheaton), I would have been abused by the competition.

For years Swider has never, ever made promises to recruits that they would even see the field for the first few years, unless the game was a blowout or in the rare case where the freshman was an outstanding talent.

So... either start as a freshman in a program that has historically struggled vs. see much less playing time upfront (and no guarantee you'll be a starter down the road) on a contending CCIW team.  I chose the later and most I know did likewise.

Regarding the non-athlete high schoolers, it seems somewhat cyclical.  In the 80's, most kids from GEECC attended Wheaton.  In the 90's it swung back to North Park.  Since 2000 it has almost exclusively been Wheaton... for whatever reason.  I'd have to flip through kid by kid to see if this has anything to due with the parents and where they attended - I suspect that would be the case.

[matblake]

Ah, Lars Anderson ... captain of the '85 national championship team and one of only two players in North Park history to register a triple-double.

A fact I was not aware of.  Pretty impressive considering all the talent that has been through the Park. 

[Gregory Sager]

Well, if you're talking about a high-school football player, it's really no contest if North Park and Wheaton are both recruiting you. Unless playing right away as a freshman is your primary motivation, Wheaton's gonna win that battle every time. As an NPU alumnus, I'm a lot more concerned with non-athlete high-schoolers from Glen Ellyn Covenant choosing the Dark Side over the Park.

I can certainly identify, though. My home church (Redeemer Covenant in Liverpool, NY) was dominated by Wheaties rather than Parkers, too, and since I made a visit to both schools when I was a senior in high school I was under a lot of pressure from the adults in my church to choose Wheaton over North Park.

Very true about recruiting focus.  As a life long "Covie" kid and Chicagoland high school footballer, I was contacted by then NP football coach, I think it was Liljegren.  I was promised a starting position at OLB as a freshman.  While I ended up playing at right around 200lbs by junior and senior year at Wheaton, I was about 165lbs as a freshman.  While it is possible I could have started at NP as a freshman (I did make the traveling squad at Wheaton), I would have been abused by the competition.

For years Swider has never, ever made promises to recruits that they would even see the field for the first few years, unless the game was a blowout or in the rare case where the freshman was an outstanding talent.

So... either start as a freshman in a program that has historically struggled vs. see much less playing time upfront (and no guarantee you'll be a starter down the road) on a contending CCIW team.  I chose the later and most I know did likewise.

I tend to be wary of coaches in any sport who make varsity-playing-time promises to high schoolers in the recruiting process, because of the constant possibility for dishonesty or half-truths on the part of the coach. However, I've never had a problem with a North Park football coach making such a recruiting pitch, because I know that it's an honest one. The program has suffered so badly from attrition every year that the head coach knows by early January that he's going to lose a huge bunch of his current freshmen, and that he'll need to fill all those holes in the first and second squads of his depth chart with next year's freshmen. Of course, that in turn means an inexperienced and physically underdeveloped North Park team will take the field the next year as well and will get its lunch handed to it in CCIW play -- prompting another wave of disgruntled freshmen to leave the fold, and so the endless cycle continues.

(My fingers remain crossed that Scott Pethtel will arrest this perpetual cycle of attrition for the 2009 season. We shall see.)

It says something for football players, I think, that being a part of a winning program with no guarantee of playing time is so much more attractive a lure to most than being a part of a losing program with a virtual guarantee of playing time. I don't think that that's the case in every sport. Perhaps football players are just used to the idea that physical development (and, thus, delayed personal gratification) is so much more a part of their chosen sport than it is in other sports.

Speaking of NPU, does anyone have any knowledge of, or insight about, new Vikings offensive coordinator Todd Winter?

[CardinalAlum]

While a former football player, coach and graduate of Wheaton, I do have a deep respect for North Park.  Don't get me wrong, I will always root for a Wheaton victory over the Park...  That said I can't pull myself to sign the checks for donations to North Park, and my wife makes me handle the checks to Wheaton.  I'm sure there will be some interesting conversations once our kids near their college years.

Hey, aren't you forgetting the big check to your OTHER alma mater?   

[CardinalAlum]

Here's the most recent list of NCC recruits!  53 new incoming players is a nice haul!!

http://northcentralcardinals.com/sports/2009/4/1/FB_0401090930.aspx?path=football

[79jaybird]

I think the trend the last 5-7 years has been for the potential D-III athlete that is a senior in HS look more closely at the WC/NC/EC schools moreso than what the historic trend has been to look at AC/MU/IWU.  This is due to the recent success  the first 3 have been having recently.

53 recruits is good for NC. 

I know Elmhurst recruiting is going well too.  EC has received some committments from some quality HS athletes and I hope that transpires to the D-III realm.

[CCIWViking]

Augustana has some very good recruits coming in including All-State Quarterback Matt Rossi from Palatine High School, Running back Mike Gyetvay from Fremd High School, and 2 time MO all-state WR Sammy Santana from the St. Louis area

[Mugsy]

While it is still very, very early... my son made a verbal commitment to Wheaton last week.

Ok... so he'll only be 5 in June, it was a verbal commitment.   You should see him tackle.  He has absolutely no fear of contact.

And before CA chimes in... "unlike his father."   

[CardinalAlum]

And before CA chimes in... "unlike his father."   

Always stealing my "Thunder"!!

[CardinalAlum]

Augustana has some very good recruits coming in including All-State Quarterback Matt Rossi from Palatine High School, Running back Mike Gyetvay from Fremd High School, and 2 time MO all-state WR Sammy Santana from the St. Louis area

Thanks Mike!!  Don't toot your own horn too much!!   

[dansand]

Augustana has some very good recruits coming in including All-State Quarterback Matt Rossi from Palatine High School, Running back Mike Gyetvay from Fremd High School, and 2 time MO all-state WR Sammy Santana from the St. Louis area

Thanks Mike!!  Don't toot your own horn too much!!   

It might be his dad (I hope), who is also named Mike.