FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Mugsy]

The fact is that Wenger was injured during the first game of the season, not last week. His replacement has been outstanding. Injuries are part of the game and good teams find ways to overcome them, not lean on the "what could have beens". Why would fans want to play the "what if.." game? The high expectations this team had from day one could be over with the loss on Saturday. It is now time to prepare for the next two weeks (and beyond). What if's, what could have beens and any other "excuses" you want to discuss are pointless. They don't have those guys that are injured. The players that are  #2's have a chance to show what they're made of and get a leg up on some positions for 2010. I'm sure none of them playing would blame their two losses on the loss of any one player. I'm lookiing forward to seeing all the injured return and play a full, healthy season next year. I'm sure this is not the way they saw their senior season play out.

I would, but I hate seeing the same post 20 times before the new one. By the way, could I at least be a -10(round numbers are nice)?

Wow... apparently I don't speak english or newcardfan doesn't understand it.  

I have yet to contradict most of the core points of your post.  Yes... injuries are part of the game.  Yes... all teams need to move on without them.  No... you can't use them as excuses for outcomes of the games.  Yes... NCC backups have filled in very well.  Yes... the coaches and players can not focus on "what might have been...", but rather what they are going to do to succeed without them.   HOW MANY TIMES DO I NEED TO SAY THIS TO YOU?

You still haven't answer my questions... do you honestly feel having Fanthorpe on the field in the 4th quarter or overtime would not have factored into the outcome in anyway?  

Your previous post mentioned injuries did NOT factor into the outcome. While we can't know for sure if NCC would have won the game if Fanthrope (or any of the other missing starters) was available, I don't think you can just dismiss the impact of losing such significant players.

BTW:  A key component of these boards is people talking about "what if scenarios" both forward focused (guess as to what will happen in future games) and looking back at what might have happened.  You know... expressing supported opinions based on the information we have.  You can pontificate all you want about how fan's should not focus on the "what if's", but that is your opinion.  Personaly I believe that is the focus coaches and players need to have.  Fan's shouldn't dwell on the "what-if's", but what is the harm in discussing opinions?   

Just look at a majority of the boards here... an overwhelm majority of the discussion is on what is going to happen?  How is a team going to adjust to this?  What might have happened if the coaching staff made this adjustment?  Without this discussion, these boards would be quite boring indeed.  It is your opinion that we shouldn't discuss "what-if's".  You've made your point.   But don't tell us what we should or shouldn't talk about.

And... if you don't want to make it clear what topic or post you are responding to, fine... don't use the Quote feature. It was a simple request to make it easier for us to get the context to what you are responding too.  By my count, you'd be about the only one here not following that process.

[NCF]

Wow.. I get it and it is pointless to argue with some people. Go Cards-hopefully you'll get it done with a little help from your "friends". 

[Mr. Ypsi]

It is good to not use injuries as an 'excuse'.  It is also good to recognize reality.

I yield to no one in having 'green-tinted glasses'.  At the same time, I doubt IWU could have stayed within 2-3 TDs of a fully healthy NCC, and am somewhat dubious we could have won Saturday if Fanthorpe was still in.  (Just as, 2 years ago when IWU knocked Wheaton out of the playoffs and won a share of the title, the Thunder team that began the season probably would have won by 3 TDs.)

As to the 'gentle treatment' of Stanek - for a freshman qb to suddenly have to face the best defense (statistically, at least) in the CCIW in a crucial game, I thought he played remarkably well.  For him to not play like Kniss or Fanthorpe is hardly a fair standard to use, IMO.

[Mugsy]

Wow.. I get it and it is pointless to argue with some people.

I  agree... particularly when people can not respond to direct questions and instead resort to using a simple terse responses to move on to the next topic.  In this case "it is pointless to argue" because you won't respond to any counterpoints.  You won't answer the inquiries to pull out exact what you mean.  So basically it is left to if you don't agree with me, you're wrong.  I can't discuss anything with you because you simple regurgitate the same post again and again as if saying the same thing 15 times will make it right and win over all opposing viewpoints.  

You are correct.  It is "pointless to argue" with you because you won't respond with anything new or as follow up.  The amazing thing is... I COMPLETELY agree with your view as it relates to players and coaches.  I completely disagree that fans can not even for a moment consider the impact of events (injuries), specific plays, bounces of the ball, whatever... that may have played a key role in the outcome of a game.

Don't worry... I won't be spending anymore of my time attempting to understand your viewpoint and providing a counter point since it is fruitless to do so as nothing comes back in return.  

I am wrong as often as I am right (probably more often than I'm right) and I appreciate the alternative viewpoints presented by others on this board, but only if it has some substance behind it.

[NCF]

Yes, you are the king of this domain. How dare anyone disagree with your almighty viewpoint.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Yes, you are the king of this domain. How dare anyone disagree with your almighty viewpoint.

That got you the first 'smite' from me.  Mugsy has never claimed to be 'king' of the site, but has earned respect.  You have earned diddly-squat, and your attitude has probably earned you a one-way ticket to oblivion.

Grow up or get lost.

[usee]

Newcardfan- I won't give up that title so easily. To quote one of my favorite movie lines "you called down the Thunder well now you got it".

NCC was playing without their 4 senior Captains and the 4 best players at their respective positions in the cciw las saturday. While I think what they have done with their backups is admirable the 4 backups to those plays aren't the best players in the conference at their positions. Lest you forget the wheaton/ncc game was 7-7 at half and Fanthorpe went on to earn player of the week honors with his 2nd half performance (which also secured the game). I think its pretty simple....if Fanthorpe plays in the second half last saturday NCC wins that game easily. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delirious.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Newcardfan- I won't give up that title so easily. To quote one of my favorite movie lines "you called down the Thunder well now you got it".

NCC was playing without their 4 senior Captains and the 4 best players at their respective positions in the cciw las saturday. While I think what they have done with their backups is admirable the 4 backups to those plays aren't the best players in the conference at their positions. Lest you forget the wheaton/ncc game was 7-7 at half and Fanthorpe went on to earn player of the week honors with his 2nd half performance (which also secured the game). I think its pretty simple....if Fanthorpe plays in the second half last saturday NCC wins that game easily. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delirious.

Well, I've been called worse than 'delirious'!

As I posted, a fully healthy NCC would have given IWU no chance.  With a healthy Fanthorpe I was 'dubious' the Titans would win, but I thought Stanek played well enough that 'wins that game easily' is going way too far.  Let's give the Titan defense some credit - they might have made Fanthorpe look like Stanek in the second half!

[usee]

I think IWU has the best defense in the conference but I don't think Wheatons and NCC's are too far behind. I've watched Fanthorpe dismantle every CCIW team over the last 2 yrs so you can think what you want but there is no way IWU wins with Fanthorpe playing 4 Quarters

[oldnuthin]

Newcardfan- I won't give up that title so easily. To quote one of my favorite movie lines "you called down the Thunder well now you got it".

NCC was playing without their 4 senior Captains and the 4 best players at their respective positions in the cciw las saturday. While I think what they have done with their backups is admirable the 4 backups to those plays aren't the best players in the conference at their positions. Lest you forget the wheaton/ncc game was 7-7 at half and Fanthorpe went on to earn player of the week honors with his 2nd half performance (which also secured the game). I think its pretty simple....if Fanthorpe plays in the second half last saturday NCC wins that game easily. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delirious.

Tombstone, nice, Val Kilmer, I find " I'm your huckleberry" to be right on par with the Kurt Russel line...maybe better.

[Wags]

I think IWU has the best defense in the conference but I don't think Wheatons and NCC's are too far behind. I've watched Fanthorpe dismantle every CCIW team over the last 2 yrs so you can think what you want but there is no way IWU wins with Fanthorpe playing 4 Quarters

My sentiments exactly! 

[ncc58]

I think IWU has the best defense in the conference but I don't think Wheatons and NCC's are too far behind. I've watched Fanthorpe dismantle every CCIW team over the last 2 yrs so you can think what you want but there is no way IWU wins with Fanthorpe playing 4 Quarters

USee! Good to see you posting here again! Missed your always welcome insight.

[ncc58]

Yes, you are the king of this domain. How dare anyone disagree with your almighty viewpoint.

NCF, both you and Mugsy are expressing personal opinions. Neither is almighty.

As far as I know, the Almighty doesn't post here.  (I hope noone takes that the wrong way or is offended.)

[Mugsy]

Yes, you are the king of this domain. How dare anyone disagree with your almighty viewpoint.

Hmm... to whom is this directed?  "You" could mean virtually anyone who posts here.  There is no quoted post to refer to, no explicit identification of who "you" is.  

Such a predictable response.    

Where do I say no one can disagree with my viewpoint?  There are numerous posters here who do not agree with me, but they at least take the time to say why and to back up what they say.  Where do I say my views are flawless?  In fact, did I not say in my recent post that more times than not "I'm wrong"?

You try to turn the table and label me as arrogant, and yet again you do not exhibit a single case where I say I'm always right.  I'm taking the time to "make an argument" or attempt to backup what I say and question your lack of understanding of what I'm saying.  I ask you a simple question which you still have not answered.  Your response... the post above. CLASSIC!  Guess you got me pegged.

Vizzini: I can't compete with you physically, and you're no match for my brains.
Man in Black: You're that smart?
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.

[Mugsy]

I think IWU has the best defense in the conference but I don't think Wheatons and NCC's are too far behind. I've watched Fanthorpe dismantle every CCIW team over the last 2 yrs so you can think what you want but there is no way IWU wins with Fanthorpe playing 4 Quarters

USee! Good to see you posting here again! Missed your always welcome insight.

Wow... a smite from Mr. Ypsi and a USee sighting (other than for Pick-Ems).  Didn't realize I was part of stiring up such controversy... 

For those regular posters here, I'm done with this whole thread.  Sorry for the interruption.  Back to the important topics... this weeks slate.