FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[iwu4ever]

I think IWU has the best defense in the conference but I don't think Wheatons and NCC's are too far behind. I've watched Fanthorpe dismantle every CCIW team over the last 2 yrs so you can think what you want but there is no way IWU wins with Fanthorpe playing 4 Quarters

My sentiments exactly! 

"no way IWU wins w/ Fanthorpe playing 4 qtrs"?
couldn't let this one go...1st half w/ Fanthorpe QBing 17 passes called - 3 sacks, 4 scrambles (net 0 yards on 10 rushes) and 8-10. 1 TD after a fumble on IWU's 19 (1 play drive).
Stanek 22 passes called  - NO sacks (3 throw aways to avoid sacks), 2 kills to stop clock, 1 Hail Mary, and numerous drops, thus 8-22.  Led NCC on 2 long scoring drives...QB play did not effect the outcome of the game...it was the OL and WRs and they played the whole game. The young kid did a superior job and the "savior" would not have made a difference on this Saturday.

IWU4Ever-
Thanks for your first post. I think you are making 2 points. 1-IWU harassed Fanthorpe and made it tough to operate in the first half. In fact this pressure resulted in him not finishing the game. 2-Stanek wasn't sacked (i.e. better protection) in the 2nd half.

First, let's clarify a couple of facts. In the first half NCC had 25 rushes and 13 passes ( Fanthorpe carried the ball 7 times as a runner for a net of +22 yds. He was 8-10 passing for 125 yds, 1 TD, and was sacked 3 times for -22 yds (thus your net 0 yds).

Next, I'll make the point that vs Wheaton the score was 7-7 at half (just like NCC) and Fanthorpe was 10-19 passing was sacked once and had run the ball three times for 19 yds. In the second half he was 6-9 passing and ran the ball 9 times for 69 yds. He was named player of the week based on his second half performance.

I will also point out that Sean Norris for Wheaton was sacked 4 times against Bethel and hit a number of other times but drove his team for the winning score, throwing a TD pass on the last play of the game to win. Against Augie Norris was sacked 5 times and hit a dozen other times and threw a TD pass with 19 seconds left to win the game.

I think it's fair to assume based on Fanthorpe's 1st half performance, his statistics per game over this season (67% completions, 186 efficiency) and his history of winning games in the second half as a POY player that he may have fared a little better than the freshman Stanek in the 2nd half given that Stanek wasn't sacked. I think it is also clear that just because someone is sacked it doesn't affect their ability to have an impact in a close game.

Credit IWU for knocking Fanthorpe out of the game. That is why they won in my opinion.

"may have fared better" vs "no way iwu wins" is a better way to comment on a forever unknown...however Stanek "wasn't sacked" because of what Stanek did... not because of any difference in pressure and protection...he scrambled and threw the ball away instead of taking a sack, and he led his team to a TD & 2pt conversion to tie the game pretty "good" QB play if you ask me. 

[usee]

So you think Stanek is better than Fanthorpe? Is it that big a stretch to assume Fanthorpe would have played better than Stanek?

Look at what Ladd did:

1st half: 10-22-102 yds 1TD (45% completion rate), 4 rushes 25 yds
2nd half: 13-26-238 yds 2 TD(50% completion rate), 9 rushes 47 yds 1 TD

player of the week in the CCIW based on his winning the game.

I stand by my statement, If Fanthorpe plays NCC wins. IWU knocked him out and won. That's football.

[Mugsy]

So you think Stanek is better than Fanthorpe? Is it that big a stretch to assume Fanthorpe would have played better than Stanek?

Look at what Ladd did:

1st half: 10-22-102 yds 1TD (45% completion rate), 4 rushes 25 yds
2nd half: 13-26-238 yds 2 TD(50% completion rate), 9 rushes 47 yds 1 TD

player of the week in the CCIW based on his winning the game.

I stand by my statement, If Fanthorpe plays NCC wins. IWU knocked him out and won. That's football.

iwu4ever,

I didn't see the game, but from your account Stanek avoided the rush better.  But he only completed 36% of his passes.  Fanthorpe is completing nearly 70% of his passes for the year, is a 3 year starter, potential All-American candidate and proven winner.

I'm sure Stanek could be a very solid QB in the future, but I'd take Fanthorpe anyday, even if he does get sacked a few extra times.

[Son of Tailgater]

I don't think anyone has covered this, but if you remember a few years ago, North Central had to put up a certain amount of points against Augie if I remember right to win the AQ for the CCIW...are we setting this same scenario up this year?

No, there would have to be a three way tie to go to the points differential (against the tied teams) and that is almost impossible.

There can be  only two teams with one conference loss.

Either Wheaton or IWU will have two conference losses after this weekend. The two one loss teams would be the winner of WC-IWU and NCC (if they win out).

The wildest scenario would result in four two loss teams (NCC, WC, IWU, AC). The tiebreaker in that case is a jamboree.  

(Actually, IWU is the AQ if there is a four way tie.)

So if NCC wins out, and Weslayen wins out, IWU gets the AQ, and North Central would be looking for a Pool C.  If NCC wins out and Wheaton wina out, then North Central gets the AQ and Wheaton looks for a Pool C with a 9-1 record.

Our best chance of getting two CCIW teams in is if North Central takes care of business and Wheaton is able to beat IWU and win out.  

I know the Titans arent hoping for this scenario, but most NCC and Wheaton Fans probably are.

P.S.   Stewie has retired and it is now Johnny Drama's world.

Finish Strong North Central.

From a different perspective I would still like to see 7 of the 8 teams in the CCIW finish above .500. According to D3football.com this has not happened since the site started. This would reflect very highly on our conference as a competitive and strong conference overall even if we only had one representative in the playoffs.

Which means that Elmhurst needs to beat Millikin this week since they are playing NCC in the final game.

[Mugsy]

From a different perspective I would still like to see 7 of the 8 teams in the CCIW finish above .500. According to D3football.com this has not happened since the site started. This would reflect very highly on our conference as a competitive and strong conference overall even if we only had one representative in the playoffs.

Which means that Elmhurst needs to beat Millikin this week since they are playing NCC in the final game.

Interesting bit of info.  This along with 3 teams in the top 25 shows just how competitive the conference is.  Unfortunately I don't see all 3 teams remaining in the top 25 since either Wheaton or IWU could drop out with another loss.

[Titan Q]

Is it that big a stretch to assume Fanthorpe would have played better than Stanek?

Obviously it is not a stretch, but what you said was a bit over-the-top...


"...there is no way IWU wins with Fanthorpe playing 4 Quarters"


I mean, "no way"?  Just because Fanthorpe did it the week before vs a completely different team (Wheaton)?  Obviously I root the guys in green, but that comment seems to me like a pretty big slap in the face to IWU's defense, which has been tremendous in CCIW play so far.

[Son of Tailgater]

So you think Stanek is better than Fanthorpe? Is it that big a stretch to assume Fanthorpe would have played better than Stanek?

Look at what Ladd did:

1st half: 10-22-102 yds 1TD (45% completion rate), 4 rushes 25 yds
2nd half: 13-26-238 yds 2 TD(50% completion rate), 9 rushes 47 yds 1 TD

player of the week in the CCIW based on his winning the game.

I stand by my statement, If Fanthorpe plays NCC wins. IWU knocked him out and won. That's football.

iwu4ever,

I didn't see the game, but from your account Stanek avoided the rush better.  But he only completed 36% of his passes.  Fanthorpe is completing nearly 70% of his passes for the year, is a 3 year starter, potential All-American candidate and proven winner.

I'm sure Stanek could be a very solid QB in the future, but I'd take Fanthorpe anyday, even if he does get sacked a few extra times.

I also think that Stanek has a very solid offensive line. While he might have had less sacks because he was throwing the ball away or had better scramble ability.

I would also say that he also might have not been taking the same risks that Fanthorpe would have taken with staying in the pocket, waiting for a WR to get open, ect. IWU might have also been pressing the WR's with the an inexperience QB in the game instead of applying heavy blitz packages.

All factors that are "what ifs" but just wanted to lay out some reasoning as to why the sacks decreased when Fanthorpe left.

[Son of Tailgater]

From a different perspective I would still like to see 7 of the 8 teams in the CCIW finish above .500. According to D3football.com this has not happened since the site started. This would reflect very highly on our conference as a competitive and strong conference overall even if we only had one representative in the playoffs.

Which means that Elmhurst needs to beat Millikin this week since they are playing NCC in the final game.

Interesting bit of info.  This along with 3 teams in the top 25 shows just how competitive the conference is.  Unfortunately I don't see all 3 teams remaining in the top 25 since either Wheaton or IWU could drop out with another loss.

I believe that if IWU beats Wheaton this week and beats North Park they will be ranked in the top 10.

If Wheaton loses to IWU and then beats Carthage I think they are still ranked in the low 20's even with two losses to two ranked teams.

If NCC beats Augie and Elmhurst I could see them in the top 15 as well.

Overall unless Wheaton loses both of their final games against IWU and Carthage I would still figure that they would be ranked.

If IWU loses to Wheaton this week I could see them being dropped but still receiving votes but not getting back in with the North Park game being their last game.

If NCC loses to either Augie or Elmhurst then I think they are dropped out of the top 25. They need to win out to hold their top 20 rank.

Once again, a lot of what if's and my opinion non-the-less.

[usee]

Is it that big a stretch to assume Fanthorpe would have played better than Stanek?

Obviously it is not a stretch, but what you said was a bit over-the-top...


"...there is no way IWU wins with Fanthorpe playing 4 Quarters"


I mean, "no way"?  Just because Fanthorpe did it the week before vs a completely different team (Wheaton)?  Obviously I root the guys in green, but that comment seems to me like a pretty big slap in the face to IWU's defense, which has been tremendous in CCIW play so far.

Fair enough. "no way" is obviously just my opinion and I stand by it. It is certainly not a slap in the face of the IWU defense who I have repeatedly said is the best in the conference. I also stated that the IWU defense knocked Fanthorpe out of the game which no one else has done. That is why they won. Not sure how that is a slap in the face.

I think its a reasonable assumption to think a POY who is completing 70% of his passes, had completed 80% of his passes already, was going to impact (in my opinion win)the second half of an OT game considering the fact he did the same thing the week before (and many other times in his career), his sub was a freshman who completed 36% and still almost won, AND IWU's qb (who is very good and was playing against a very good defense) won the game for his team with a great 2nd half performance.

[Mugsy]

From a different perspective I would still like to see 7 of the 8 teams in the CCIW finish above .500. According to D3football.com this has not happened since the site started. This would reflect very highly on our conference as a competitive and strong conference overall even if we only had one representative in the playoffs.

Which means that Elmhurst needs to beat Millikin this week since they are playing NCC in the final game.

Interesting bit of info.  This along with 3 teams in the top 25 shows just how competitive the conference is.  Unfortunately I don't see all 3 teams remaining in the top 25 since either Wheaton or IWU could drop out with another loss.

I believe that if IWU beats Wheaton this week and beats North Park they will be ranked in the top 10.

If Wheaton loses to IWU and then beats Carthage I think they are still ranked in the low 20's even with two losses to two ranked teams.

If NCC beats Augie and Elmhurst I could see them in the top 15 as well.

Overall unless Wheaton loses both of their final games against IWU and Carthage I would still figure that they would be ranked.

If IWU loses to Wheaton this week I could see them being dropped but still receiving votes but not getting back in with the North Park game being their last game.

If NCC loses to either Augie or Elmhurst then I think they are dropped out of the top 25. They need to win out to hold their top 20 rank.

Once again, a lot of what if's and my opinion non-the-less.

SOT, thanks for spelling it out further than I.  I couldn't take the time at work to go through all the scenarios, other than to say it isn't a guarantee that 3 teams will still be in the top 25 by seasons end depending out how things play out - especially with Wheaton and IWU going head-to-head on Saturday.

[ncc58]

So, Fanthorpe was sacked three times but completed 80% of his passes. Stanek was not sacked but only completed 36% of his passes.

Here's a different theory. Fanthorpe is more confident on his ability as a QB and passer, and has more experience with his WRs, that he hangs in there longer. He'll get sacked more but has a greater potential for making plays downfield.

Stanek, with his inexperience at the college level, gives up the play earlier when pressure comes and just throws the ball away. The potential for big plays downfield is less.

Had Fanthorpe played the second half, he would have put more pressure on the IWU defense. Don't know what the outcome would have been, but the mindset of the IWU defense would have been completely different.

[Son of Tailgater]

So, Fanthorpe was sacked three times but completed 80% of his passes. Stanek was not sacked but only completed 36% of his passes.

Here's a different theory. Fanthorpe is more confident on his ability as a QB and passer, and has more experience with his WRs, that he hangs in there longer. He'll get sacked more but has a greater potential for making plays downfield.

Stanek, with his inexperience at the college level, gives up the play earlier when pressure comes and just throws the ball away. The potential for big plays downfield is less.

Had Fanthorpe played the second half, he would have put more pressure on the IWU defense. Don't know what the outcome would have been, but the mindset of the IWU defense would have been completely different.

I think our theories are pretty similar but you explained it a lot better than I did. 

[Mugsy]

So, Fanthorpe was sacked three times but completed 80% of his passes. Stanek was not sacked but only completed 36% of his passes.

Here's a different theory. Fanthorpe is more confident on his ability as a QB and passer, and has more experience with his WRs, that he hangs in there longer. He'll get sacked more but has a greater potential for making plays downfield.

Stanek, with his inexperience at the college level, gives up the play earlier when pressure comes and just throws the ball away. The potential for big plays downfield is less.

Had Fanthorpe played the second half, he would have put more pressure on the IWU defense. Don't know what the outcome would have been, but the mindset of the IWU defense would have been completely different.

What is most humorous about this whole discussion is the implication that it is more beneficial to have Stanek in the game INSTEAD of Fanthrope (if it were an option).   Incidently this thread topic kinda originated from a IWU fan... so of course that would be the more desired option at QB.  Heck... I would have loved to have seen Stanek at QB instead of Fanthrope on Oct. 24th.  

While we're at it... how about start all 2nd teamers for NCC against Augie this week?   That would be awesome!

I think Rooney is better than Ladd.  Wheaton requests playing against Rooney instead of Ladd.  

[iwu4ever]

my original response was to help people look between the lines at the stats and see that there was NOT a 80% to 36% difference between Fanthorpe and Stanek.

This is not a post suggesting that Fanthorpe is not clearly more experienced, accomplished, and historically successful. but to simply suggest that Stanek did not lose the game for NCC and that Fanthorpe somehow could not have lost it. 

Someone who did not see the game doesn't know that if Fanthorpe had avoided 3 sacks by throwing the ball away, he would have been 8-13 and not lost 22 yards, and if Stanek had taken 3 sacks, not killed the clock twice, not thrown the Hail Mary, he would have been he would have been 8-16.

Is he better than Fanthorpe, obviosly NOT, but he played very well and heady.

[clemac]

Anyone that was at the game would know that IWU controlled the game in the first half. Just because Fanthorpe rallied his team against Wheaton in the second half doesn't mean it's an automatic that he will do it against IWU.