FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Mr. Ypsi]

Thanks, newcardfan.

While I think it is a longshot, good luck on a Pool C bid.  I kinda doubt any 2-loss team is gonna make it in Pool C this year (and figure ONU would probably be ahead of you), but it is NOT impossible until the committee says so! 8)

And curses to Millikin!   Not only do they keep IWU from a #2 seed (and, possibly, a #1 and keep UWW from joining our region), they also kept me from #2 in the pickems by 'upsetting' Elmhurst.  Back in the late 60s IWU/Millikin was an intense rivalry (I sense it has cooled considerably since then), but they keep this up, they're gonna make me hate 'em like an undergrad!

[NCF]

And my son is so disappointed about that!! It has to be tough for the seniors knowing that this Saturday could be the end of their playing careers.

[iwu4ever]

Details on the IWU vs. Wheaton penalties emailed to me from someone at the game.  Shows how costly some miscues can be in a critical game and also brings in to question how IWU could not have a single penalty the entire game.  Note: #1 and #2 ultimately had little effect on the score due to an INT and blocked FG, but did result in Wheaton's defense remaining on the field longer.

Some interesting observations on the penalties from Saturday:

IWU has averaged 5.6 penalties per game for the season but not penalized 1x? strange in my book.

The 5 Wheaton penalties were all very costly:

1-Wheaton sacks Rooney and he fumbles at the IWU 20 where wheaton recovers (would have been at least a FG??)--offsides on the cornerback playing bump and run!!?? Rooney drives to the wheaton 5 and is INT by Lutes.

2-Norris has a 55+ yd punt before half negated because the gunner is in motion. next punt blocked to set up a potential FG (blocked by Wheaton)

3. IWU throws an inc pass on 1st down at their own 35--roughing the passer on Langs. +15 yds moves it to midfield. NExt play is TD pass where the Wheaton DB caught Scalcucci at the 2 but he fell into the endzone. those 15 yds keeps him from scoring??

4. Wheaton throws TD pass on 3rd down to Doorman on a play action pass from the IWU 2 yd line and an OLineman is blocking his guy into the endzone. Wheaton kicks a FG for 3 pts instead of 7.

5. 3rd and 2 w 2min left wheaton is called for 12 men after a timeout ending the game.

WOW...sorry had to jump in on this. We get the replay of the game on our local cable station, so we can see the plays where the penalties were called.
1. Flag came out immediately as the corner jumps across LOS 10 feet in front of official.
2.Gunner clearly in motion as ball is snapped (Wheaton coaches yelling at the guy for mistake).
3.so the completion is to the 15 without the penalty???...possibly could have still resulted in a TD?!?!?! Not a good replay of the late hit. You make the call.
4.the offensive lineman was standing in the middle of the endzone looking around...was not "blocking his guy into the endzone"  - I think a lineman running downfield is a "key" for LBs to play "run" not "pass" and the penalty did not result in a change of possesion...the INT did.
5.Officials fault that 12 guys came onto the field after a timeout?!?!?!

All were very obvious calls...were there some no-calls - ALWAYS IN EVERY GAME. Hope we don't require a quota for officials to throw x number of flags on each team.

[Mugsy]

Q, your list here just brought back the sick feeling I had Saturday evening.    Yes... this is why I was so frustrated.  If Wheaton executes and eliminates just a few of these, the outcome could have been very different.

The section of your last post that I highlighted was my first response to the question about penalties in the game that I included in an earlier post.  I much prefer the officials letting the players decide the outcome of the game, provided they catch the obvious infractions.

Just think of all the NCC fans that have that same sick feeling. On second thought, that might just make you smile (a little)

lol... I ever so briefly, yes.

[oldnuthin]

Congratulations to Luke Hockaday on being named  CCIW O player of the week. 33-49 for 332 to lead the Big Blue to an awesome comeback. Big ups for playing  hurt in the overtime.

[Mugsy]

Details on the IWU vs. Wheaton penalties emailed to me from someone at the game.  Shows how costly some miscues can be in a critical game and also brings in to question how IWU could not have a single penalty the entire game.  Note: #1 and #2 ultimately had little effect on the score due to an INT and blocked FG, but did result in Wheaton's defense remaining on the field longer.

Some interesting observations on the penalties from Saturday:

IWU has averaged 5.6 penalties per game for the season but not penalized 1x? strange in my book.

The 5 Wheaton penalties were all very costly:

1-Wheaton sacks Rooney and he fumbles at the IWU 20 where wheaton recovers (would have been at least a FG??)--offsides on the cornerback playing bump and run!!?? Rooney drives to the wheaton 5 and is INT by Lutes.

2-Norris has a 55+ yd punt before half negated because the gunner is in motion. next punt blocked to set up a potential FG (blocked by Wheaton)

3. IWU throws an inc pass on 1st down at their own 35--roughing the passer on Langs. +15 yds moves it to midfield. NExt play is TD pass where the Wheaton DB caught Scalcucci at the 2 but he fell into the endzone. those 15 yds keeps him from scoring??

4. Wheaton throws TD pass on 3rd down to Doorman on a play action pass from the IWU 2 yd line and an OLineman is blocking his guy into the endzone. Wheaton kicks a FG for 3 pts instead of 7.

5. 3rd and 2 w 2min left wheaton is called for 12 men after a timeout ending the game.

WOW...sorry had to jump in on this. We get the replay of the game on our local cable station, so we can see the plays where the penalties were called.
1. Flag came out immediately as the corner jumps across LOS 10 feet in front of official.
2.Gunner clearly in motion as ball is snapped (Wheaton coaches yelling at the guy for mistake).
3.so the completion is to the 15 without the penalty???...possibly could have still resulted in a TD?!?!?! Not a good replay of the late hit. You make the call.
4.the offensive lineman was standing in the middle of the endzone looking around...was not "blocking his guy into the endzone"  - I think a lineman running downfield is a "key" for LBs to play "run" not "pass" and the penalty did not result in a change of possesion...the INT did.
5.Officials fault that 12 guys came onto the field after a timeout?!?!?!

All were very obvious calls...were there some no-calls - ALWAYS IN EVERY GAME. Hope we don't require a quota for officials to throw x number of flags on each team.

This is getting REALLY, REALLY tiresome.  If people are not going to take the time to read the post completely, I'm done.  I'm sick of having to respond 10 times to something because someone responds and takes everything completely out of context.

Did you read the previous posts to the one you quoted?

Was I at the game?  No.
Did I see the game?  No. (I listened to it).
Did I in any of my posts say that Wheaton was robbed, or that the officials cost Wheaton the game?  No.

Did I say (or even IMPLY) it was "the officials fault that 12 guys came out onto the field after the timeout?  NO WAY!  How many times do I need to state that Wheaton (NOTE: WHEATON) that made some serious miscues on Saturday that cost them the game.

Honestly... I bet I underlined that thought 3 times since Saturday.  But iwu4ever, you're going to read what you want and take everything out of context, aren't you.  All I need from you is the lame "watch the film" comment... that trumps everything automatically.  Nothing anyone can say once the "watch the film" angle is presented.  It is infallible.

All I did post a few comments from someone I respect (who many on this board know), who is genuinely objective who had some views on a few of the plays, and suddenly I'm making excuses for Wheaton's loss or I'm blaming the officiating for everyone.

If people aren't going to read posts for what they are or reply with follow up questions ("do you really mean that <blah>...) and instead twist comments or take out of context, I'm done for 09'.   I don't mind defending a view that is contrary to another, but I'm sick to death of defending a complete misread or misinterpretation of what I said.

[iwu4ever]

Take it easy!! My response was to the "someone at the game".  I can read that these were not your observations, and that you were not blaming the officials.  Just countering with an opposing view.

[Mugsy]

Take it easy!! My response was to the "someone at the game".  I can read that these were not your observations, and that you were not blaming the officials.  Just countering with an opposing view.

Then say so...

[usee]

I'll jump in here since it was my pm to Mugsy that started all this. Mugsy is right--there was no intent to say the officials were wrong or dispute the calls. To the contrary, I was expressing my frustration to Mugsy that the 5 penalties wheaton committed all came with a heavy price that  affected their chances to win the game. I don't dispute any of the calls and neither did Mugsy. They were boneheaded mistakes that, along with the list Q provided, cost Wheaton a CCIW championship opportunity.


Congrats to the Titans--they deserved to win the game. Brien Rooney was the best player on the field Saturday.

[wheels81]

Ok more frustration on my part expressed earlier, definitely not "sour grapes",  not only at the penalty mistakes highlighted above, (I apologize for my knee jerk reaction to the zebras actions), but also the turnovers in the redzone.  Those were huge!

Good luck to the Bloomington Spartans as they enter the playoffs.

Also I think the Naperville redbirds have a good chance of scoring a berth if they can finish w/only 2 in region losses (both on road)

[ncc58]

I didn't read anything in any posts by Mugsy or other Wheaties where they were blaming the referees. They were commenting that the mistakes were not what you normally see from a Wheaton team. Mugsy has gotten a lot of criticism the last couple of weeks for things he hasn't posted. Mugsy has always been fair and honest here, and has exhibited knowledge and integrity. Lighten up, iwu4ever.

And, NCC has no chance of getting a Pool C bid. Losing to ONU and then playing two weak non-conference doesn't build a strong case. If a two loss team gets in, it will come from the OAC not the CCIW.

[Son of Tailgater]

Ok more frustration on my part expressed earlier, definitely not "sour grapes",  not only at the penalty mistakes highlighted above, (I apologize for my knee jerk reaction to the zebras actions), but also the turnovers in the redzone.  Those were huge!

Good luck to the Bloomington Spartans as they enter the playoffs.

Also I think the Naperville redbirds have a good chance of scoring a berth if they can finish w/only 2 in region losses (both on road)

Thank you for the response but no need to apologize. I just had to defend the offensive line for IWU since the team as a whole committed 0 penalties. I do understand the frustration though.

[Mugsy]

I'll jump in here since it was my pm to Mugsy that started all this. Mugsy is right--there was no intent to say the officials were wrong or dispute the calls. To the contrary, I was expressing my frustration to Mugsy that the 5 penalties wheaton committed all came with a heavy price that  affected their chances to win the game. I don't dispute any of the calls and neither did Mugsy. They were boneheaded mistakes that, along with the list Q provided, cost Wheaton a CCIW championship opportunity.


Congrats to the Titans--they deserved to win the game. Brien Rooney was the best player on the field Saturday.

USee... sorry to have pulled you into this.     Next time I'll keep the personal email private, but I thought you provided a simple list documenting the 5 Wheaton penalties in the context where they occurred and then indicated how costly these Wheaton mistakes were - not necessarily poor officiating.  Somehow that was misconstrued by iwu4ever that we blame the officials for the Wheaton loss.   

As a result I need to "Take it easy" because the following quotes from 4 separate posts over the past few days apparently failed to make my stance clear.

Yeah... it is somewhat questionable when a team goes an entire game without a single infraction.  But it is not as if Wheaton was penalized significantly more, 5 penalties for 35 yards.  1 of those penalities was roughing the passer for 15 yards.

If Wheaton had 7-9 penalties, then it would seem a bit more questionable.  The officials seemed to let the teams play, which I find much more appealing that having everything called.  This is NOT why Wheaton lost.

Wheaton lost because of some very costly mistakes and then the inability to stop the IWU run in the 2nd half, primarly Rooney's scrambling.  I can't remember how many 3rd and longs IWU converted for first downs - back breakers.  Norris' INT in the IWU endzone has huge, along with other "gift" turnovers in the 2nd half (the first play of the 3rd quarter). 

While I don't think it would have changed the result at all, it is indicative of the miscues Wheaton made on Saturday which will cost you a game of this magnitude.  3rd and 2 with less than 2 minutes to play and IWU with the ball.  Your only chance it for a stop and hold IWU to 3 points, or more than likely hold IWU on 4th down since their placekicker was having issues. You call a timeout to figure out what your gonna do for the stop.  Instead you get an illegal participation by having 12 men on the field to give IWU a 1st down and the game.  AFTER A TIMEOUT... 

Details on the IWU vs. Wheaton penalties emailed to me from someone at the game.  Shows how costly some miscues can be in a critical game and also brings in to question how IWU could not have a single penalty the entire game.

For me it is to show that while IWU did not have a single penalty (which honestly is disconcerting, though I do not view as why Wheaton lost), the few penalties that Wheaton had are the types of miscues than can cost the game.  The listing of Wheaton penalties is not to imply they were necessarily bogus.  More to show how they impacted the game.  Please don't read more into it than that.

Q, your list here just brought back the sick feeling I had Saturday evening.     Yes... this is why I was so frustrated.  If Wheaton executes and eliminates just a few of these, the outcome could have been very different.

The section of your last post that I highlighted was my first response to the question about penalties in the game that I included in an earlier post.  I much prefer the officials letting the players decide the outcome of the game, provided they catch the obvious infractions.

2 weeks in a row where I've had to explain myself again and again.  Sorry for the apparent over reaction, but it is quite frustrating and really not worth all the hassle.  Since Wheaton is out of it for 09, I'll back off and let the IWU and NCC posters have at it.

[Mugsy]

Yeah I know I said I would yield, but one more post.

Some really interesting thoughts being posted on the General Football/Pool C - 2009 board.  Check it out.

[washdupcard]

Well, Well, Well...I take a football season off and randomly come back to check up on the CCIW and its fricken chaos.  I wonder about my Cardinals if they didn't have all the injuries...shocked by IWU rising from the ashes...and wondering if Wheaton is starting or in the midst of a decline.