FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[FormerCard]

The CCIW All Conference football team


http://cciw.org/fall_football/09_fballconf.htm

[oldnuthin]

Nobody from IWU on first team offense that is a little surprising. Plenty on D though. I thought for sure that chase gruening would make first team for Millikin.

[Dennis_Prikkel]

my congratulations to all the all-conference selections, including the two from North Park.

My apologies for my annual North Park rant - and my erroenous regurgitation of North Park's sacks allowed.

but any way you slice the North Park football program - as long as the school is satisfied with having a lousy football program it will stay that way - and all of us alums who wish to contribute in many ways to make a change are all told a polite "We're not interested" by the school.

I now depart, back into the oblivion of the basketball board, where North Park is about to embark on another hopeless basketball campaign.

[Gregory Sager]

Is there any talk at North Park about discontinuing the football program?  It just seems like there is no light at the end of the tunnel.  Is it worth it to keep fielding teams that are this uncompetitive?

With the amount of time they have fielded a team, would a transfer to a less competitive conference help? the UMAC perhaps?

Discontinuing NPU's football program, or moving it to another conference or to independent status while keeping the rest of the school's teams in the CCIW -- a la the arrangement that Macalester worked out with the MIAC -- are not options. As long as NPU wishes to remain a member of the CCIW, it must field a football team that participates in the league's annual round robin. These are the two relevant sections from Article III of the CCIW constitution:

Section 2:   Core Sports. In the men's program, every member of the Conference must play every
   other Conference member in football, basketball and baseball and must participate
   in the Conference (meet) program of at least five other sports. In the women's program,
   every member of the Conference must play every other Conference member in volleyball,
   basketball and softball and must participate in the Conference (meet) program of at least
   five other sports.
Section 3:   Core Sports – Exception. A member institution may appeal for exception from this
   requirement. Automatic exceptions shall not exceed one round robin sport and one
   Conference meet sport per program per school. Football, women's volleyball and men's
   and women's basketball are excluded from automatic exceptions.

Given the dismal history of North Park football -- the school is currently in the throes of an epic conference losing streak that's approaching an entire decade's worth of games, and the Vikings have not enjoyed a winning season (either overall or in CCIW play) in 41 years -- it stands to reason that football would've been either abandoned or downgraded to a lesser league or independent status a long time ago if it were possible. It isn't.

[oldnuthin]

Is there any talk at North Park about discontinuing the football program?  It just seems like there is no light at the end of the tunnel.  Is it worth it to keep fielding teams that are this uncompetitive?

With the amount of time they have fielded a team, would a transfer to a less competitive conference help? the UMAC perhaps?

Discontinuing NPU's football program, or moving it to another conference or to independent status while keeping the rest of the school's teams in the CCIW -- a la the arrangement that Macalester worked out with the MIAC -- are not options. As long as NPU wishes to remain a member of the CCIW, it must field a football team that participates in the league's annual round robin. These are the two relevant sections from Article III of the CCIW constitution:

Section 2:   Core Sports. In the men's program, every member of the Conference must play every
   other Conference member in football, basketball and baseball and must participate
   in the Conference (meet) program of at least five other sports. In the women's program,
   every member of the Conference must play every other Conference member in volleyball,
   basketball and softball and must participate in the Conference (meet) program of at least
   five other sports.
Section 3:   Core Sports – Exception. A member institution may appeal for exception from this
   requirement. Automatic exceptions shall not exceed one round robin sport and one
   Conference meet sport per program per school. Football, women's volleyball and men's
   and women's basketball are excluded from automatic exceptions.

Given the dismal history of North Park football -- the school is currently in the throes of an epic conference losing streak that's approaching an entire decade's worth of games, and the Vikings have not enjoyed a winning season (either overall or in CCIW play) in 41 years -- it stands to reason that football would've been either abandoned or downgraded to a lesser league or independent status a long time ago if it were possible. It isn't.

sorry nobody hipped me to that dude. thanks for knowledge

[FormerCard]

The CCIW All Conference football team


http://cciw.org/fall_football/09_fballconf.htm

I was somewhat surprised that NCC leading tackler Willie Hayes didn't make either the 1st or 2nd team.  He seemed to make alot of plays and led the Conference with 3 fumble recoveries..

That being said, NCC had a great showing on both sides of the ball and with 6 First team all conference players (plus Wenger and Sulo) returning next year, I am excited for yet another season of Cardinal Football.

[Gregory Sager]

Is there any talk at North Park about discontinuing the football program?  It just seems like there is no light at the end of the tunnel.  Is it worth it to keep fielding teams that are this uncompetitive?

With the amount of time they have fielded a team, would a transfer to a less competitive conference help? the UMAC perhaps?

Discontinuing NPU's football program, or moving it to another conference or to independent status while keeping the rest of the school's teams in the CCIW -- a la the arrangement that Macalester worked out with the MIAC -- are not options. As long as NPU wishes to remain a member of the CCIW, it must field a football team that participates in the league's annual round robin. These are the two relevant sections from Article III of the CCIW constitution:

Section 2:   Core Sports. In the men's program, every member of the Conference must play every
   other Conference member in football, basketball and baseball and must participate
   in the Conference (meet) program of at least five other sports. In the women's program,
   every member of the Conference must play every other Conference member in volleyball,
   basketball and softball and must participate in the Conference (meet) program of at least
   five other sports.
Section 3:   Core Sports – Exception. A member institution may appeal for exception from this
   requirement. Automatic exceptions shall not exceed one round robin sport and one
   Conference meet sport per program per school. Football, women's volleyball and men's
   and women's basketball are excluded from automatic exceptions.

Given the dismal history of North Park football -- the school is currently in the throes of an epic conference losing streak that's approaching an entire decade's worth of games, and the Vikings have not enjoyed a winning season (either overall or in CCIW play) in 41 years -- it stands to reason that football would've been either abandoned or downgraded to a lesser league or independent status a long time ago if it were possible. It isn't.

sorry nobody hipped me to that dude. thanks for knowledge

You're welcome. Questions occasionally arise as to what's required of CCIW members and what isn't. It's good to pull out the rules every now and then and post them in order to spread the info.

[Stagg Again!!]

To elaborate on the Jones v Fanthorpe debate here are the numbers:

PASSING AVG      Team Cl   G  Att   Cmp Int  Pct.  Yds  TD Avg/G
-------------------------------------------------------------
1. Jones, Evan.... CART JR 10 464 309  14  66.6 3554 32 355.4
3. Fanthorpe, A    NCC  SR 10 208 142   7  68.3 2096 28 209.6

TOTAL OFFENSE    Team Cl G  Rush Pass Plays Total Yds/G
---------------------------------------------------------
1. Jones, Evan.... CART JR 10  101 3554   524  3655 365.5
2. Fanthorpe, A    NCC  SR 10  330 2096   274  2426 242.6

PASS EFFICIENCY Tm   Cl  G   Att Cmp Int  Pct.   Yds   TD  Eff.
-------------------------------------------------------------
1. Fanthorpe, A  NCC  SR 10 208 142   7   68.3 2096 28 190.6
2. Jones, Evan...CART  JR 10 464 309  14  66.6 3554 32 147.7

I would argue that Evan Jones was as important or more to Carthage as Fanthorpe was to NCC. Without Fanthorpe NCC still got the game vs IWU to OT. Without Jones, Carthage certainly probably finishes with a losing record. (By the way, Jones had 7 more INT than Fanthorpe but he also threw the ball 256 more times  )

To say it another way, Evan Jones accounted for 79% of his teams' offensive production over the course of the whole season (3,655 yds/4,639 yds). Aaron Fanthorpe accounted for 50% of NCC's offense (2,426 yds/4,879) which is very good but Jone's numbers are ridiculous. To put it into perspective, Mt Union's Greg Micheli accounted for 53% of their offense through 15 games last year on their way to the National Championship. He was the Gagliardi award winner.

I couldn't agree more that Evan Jones' statistics are sick, and I'll reiterate what I said before -- the OPOY should be his to lose next year.  It is important to note that Fanthorpe did not play past half-time in the Benedictine, Olivet, MU, NPU, or IWU (due to an injury that may have cost NCC the conference title) games.  Additionally, he did not play in the fourth quarter against EC.  All told, he didn't play in almost 30% of the quarters that NCC played.  And, when he was in the the game he was supported by a strong running game (Sulo early on, and then Rossberg, Malek, Kukuc, etc.).  NCC rushed the ball 62.5% of the time for 6.2 yards/carry and passed only 37.5% of the time.

Meanwhile, Jones didn't play past half-time against NPU, past the third quarter in the MU game, and missed about 1/3 of the IWU game.  Thus, he only missed only about 10% of the quarters that CC played.  And, he was not supported by a strong running game.  CC rushed the ball only 35.5% of the time for 3.1 yards/carry and passed the ball 64.5% of the time.

[usee]

Bust-I am not sure what point you are making or its relevance to the comparison. I think the completion percentages and efficiency ratings stand for themselves no matter the playing time. I think the % of offense numbers are more impressive given the time they didn't play and you could certainly argue both sides of the coin as to whether a strong running game was good or bad for bot qb's.

[lakeshore]

North Park needs to clean house - NOW.

Have you seen the 2009 CCIW football statistics.  Here they are:

http://www.cciw.org/fall_football/2009_Stats/CCIWOnly/CONFLDRS.HTM

most compelling stats to me:
in seven games NPU was inside the opponents 20-yard line just 11 times
NPU allowed over 500 yards per game
NPU had only 14 sacks in 7 games, but allowed 135 sacks.

North Park had nearly 100 players out for football this year, how many will still be in school the second semester?

Time to back up the truck.

dgp

NPU admin needs to wake up and look for another conference for ALL sports!  They are competitive in one or two sports a year TOTAL for men and women.  Joining the North Con would be a great fit for them!  -6 yards of offense to finish the season?  Unreal.

[Frooper2]

Dennis, Greg, Mark, lakeshore, and other NPU Vikings:

In light of NPU's almost 50 year lack of competitive excellence in the CCIW, I have 3 questions:

1- WHAT: What will it take for NPU to become competitive in all sports in the CCIW?  What would that PLAN look like?

2- CAN: Can NPU become competitive in all sports?  For NPU to catch up, stay up and compete for CCIW championships, would NPU be capable of accomplishing that PLAN?

3- WILL: Does NPU have the will and desire to prioritize a highly competitive athletic program?  How does that vision fit with the current NPU culture, community and philosophy?

[formerd3db]

North Park needs to clean house - NOW.

Have you seen the 2009 CCIW football statistics.  Here they are:

http://www.cciw.org/fall_football/2009_Stats/CCIWOnly/CONFLDRS.HTM

most compelling stats to me:
in seven games NPU was inside the opponents 20-yard line just 11 times
NPU allowed over 500 yards per game
NPU had only 14 sacks in 7 games, but allowed 135 sacks.

North Park had nearly 100 players out for football this year, how many will still be in school the second semester?

Time to back up the truck.

dgp

NPU admin needs to wake up and look for another conference for ALL sports!  They are competitive in one or two sports a year TOTAL for men and women.  Joining the North Con would be a great fit for them!  -6 yards of offense to finish the season?  Unreal.

Is there any talk at North Park about discontinuing the football program?  It just seems like there is no light at the end of the tunnel.  Is it worth it to keep fielding teams that are this uncompetitive?

With the amount of time they have fielded a team, would a transfer to a less competitive conference help? the UMAC perhaps?

Discontinuing NPU's football program, or moving it to another conference or to independent status while keeping the rest of the school's teams in the CCIW -- a la the arrangement that Macalester worked out with the MIAC -- are not options. As long as NPU wishes to remain a member of the CCIW, it must field a football team that participates in the league's annual round robin. These are the two relevant sections from Article III of the CCIW constitution:

Section 2:   Core Sports. In the men’s program, every member of the Conference must play every
   other Conference member in football, basketball and baseball and must participate
   in the Conference (meet) program of at least five other sports. In the women’s program,
   every member of the Conference must play every other Conference member in volleyball,
   basketball and softball and must participate in the Conference (meet) program of at least
   five other sports.
Section 3:   Core Sports – Exception. A member institution may appeal for exception from this
   requirement. Automatic exceptions shall not exceed one round robin sport and one
   Conference meet sport per program per school. Football, women’s volleyball and men’s
   and women’s basketball are excluded from automatic exceptions.

Given the dismal history of North Park football -- the school is currently in the throes of an epic conference losing streak that's approaching an entire decade's worth of games, and the Vikings have not enjoyed a winning season (either overall or in CCIW play) in 41 years -- it stands to reason that football would've been either abandoned or downgraded to a lesser league or independent status a long time ago if it were possible. It isn't.

sorry nobody hipped me to that dude. thanks for knowledge

You're welcome. Questions occasionally arise as to what's required of CCIW members and what isn't. It's good to pull out the rules every now and then and post them in order to spread the info.

Is there any talk at North Park about discontinuing the football program?  It just seems like there is no light at the end of the tunnel.  Is it worth it to keep fielding teams that are this uncompetitive?

With the amount of time they have fielded a team, would a transfer to a less competitive conference help? the UMAC perhaps?

Discontinuing NPU's football program, or moving it to another conference or to independent status while keeping the rest of the school's teams in the CCIW -- a la the arrangement that Macalester worked out with the MIAC -- are not options. As long as NPU wishes to remain a member of the CCIW, it must field a football team that participates in the league's annual round robin. These are the two relevant sections from Article III of the CCIW constitution:

Section 2:   Core Sports. In the men’s program, every member of the Conference must play every
   other Conference member in football, basketball and baseball and must participate
   in the Conference (meet) program of at least five other sports. In the women’s program,
   every member of the Conference must play every other Conference member in volleyball,
   basketball and softball and must participate in the Conference (meet) program of at least
   five other sports.
Section 3:   Core Sports – Exception. A member institution may appeal for exception from this
   requirement. Automatic exceptions shall not exceed one round robin sport and one
   Conference meet sport per program per school. Football, women’s volleyball and men’s
   and women’s basketball are excluded from automatic exceptions.

Given the dismal history of North Park football -- the school is currently in the throes of an epic conference losing streak that's approaching an entire decade's worth of games, and the Vikings have not enjoyed a winning season (either overall or in CCIW play) in 41 years -- it stands to reason that football would've been either abandoned or downgraded to a lesser league or independent status a long time ago if it were possible. It isn't.

My point is a tournament with 32 teams isn't enough with over 230 DIII schools. Time to expand the field just a little bit. However, that change probably won't happen any time soon and in just four years I won't care anymore.

newcardfan - I kind of feel sorry for you if you are getting nothing out of this wonderful experience. I was excited about my sons' high school football team and to some extent, still am. I still go to a few of the ole high school games. They're fun! And I will continue to go to some NCC games. It's natural if you are a football fan and "buy into" the programs and support your son.  I feel that it is important for your son to know that you are as interested and involved as you can be. This displays your pride in the sacrifice and dedication he has made to the program.  If he is a true d3 football player, I'm sure NCC football will run through his veins for the rest of his life. After he is finished playing, wouldn't it be GREAT to experience a few games sitting in the stands with him?

Actually-NO.  It would be great to experience a lot of other things with him besides all of the sporting events we've been to over the years. If he decides to coach football and track like he is planning on doing right now, then I would go watch some of the games he coaches and hope he would talk things over with me like his older sister does now that she is a varsity coach.It is so much fun watching her develop her style while asking me for advice and finally understanding what made me become a coach and all the emotions and attachments a coach makes with his/her players.Besides all that, his younger sister will be in high school when he graduates and it will be time to support her at her events like we did with the other four kids.
Just a quick question for those in the know. Was reading a discussion on another message board about how much better NAIA is than NCAA Div III. Any thoughts,comments?

Well, I can see it is time for the annual discussion on the North Park football program (or Concordia-Chicago take your pick ).  "The Sage"(r)'s comments sum this up the best.  Going the route of the Swarthmore debacle from at the beginning of this decade (or for that matter Blackburn, Colorado College, etc.) is not the answer.  I will just re-mention some comments I've made in the past about this general topic.  People for years said the same thing about Northwestern in the Big Ten and Olivet College in our MIAA.  Those programs, as you all know, have had a dismal overall record for many years, until recent.  Some people for years called for them to discontinue football or get kicked out of their respective conferences.  Fortuanately, that was not done and eventually, they got the right people and administrative support and their programs markedly improved.  Granted, Olivet was winless this year (similar to Hope in having losing seasons the last two years, which is not characteristic of the "new era" of Hope football at all).  Moreover, neither Northwestern or Olivet will be powerhouses, however, they are competitive (Northwestern having a pretty good year so far at 6-4 with a game remaining).  The positives that a football program brings to a college, including at DIII has been discussed much on these boards; and, while no one likes losing all the time, I think that it is not impossible for NPU to have some eventual success with the program with their current coach, while being there the past three years now (is that correct?).  Obviously, I do not know the "inside" info on the program with regard to the relationship between the administration and the coaching staff, however, I would think it highly unlikely that NPU would drop the program, especially after all the recent $ put into the facilities (even if given, the lead gift that is, by Holmgren and his wife).  Heck, people were saying the same about Concordia-Chicago and they've done decent of recent.  Again, they won't ever be powerhouses, but discontinuance of the programs, IMO, is not the option.  Those administrators who would think otherwise, IMO, are simply misguided (can you read Swarthemore?? - and perhaps Colorado College??   Just my $0.02 worth.

[Mr. Ypsi]

While I am a fan of nearly all sports (and calculated a CCIW 'all-sports trophy' last year - in which NPU came in an embarassingly distant eighth place), I am first-and-foremost a basketball guy.  For those suggesting an NPU departure, please remember that they would be taking with them 5 of the 6 national titles the conference has won in men's basketball.

I would, however, be interested in hearing the response to Frooper2's questions - can (and will) NPU ever regain competitiveness in anything other than soccer?  (And soccer is my #2 sport, so certainly not discounting that lone area of competitiveness! )

[Stagg Again!!]

Bust-I am not sure what point you are making or its relevance to the comparison. I think the completion percentages and efficiency ratings stand for themselves no matter the playing time. I think the % of offense numbers are more impressive given the time they didn't play and you could certainly argue both sides of the coin as to whether a strong running game was good or bad for bot qb's.

Sorry about the confusion USee.  The point I was trying to make was that if you increased the percentage of pass plays (relative to total plays) that Fanthorpe had from the 37.5% that he did have to the 64.5% that Jones did have (as a percentage of his total plays), and allowed him to play two more full games worth of quarters against Benedictine, Olivet, MU, and NPU, his total numbers would have been at least as impressive as Jones'.  I am sure, though, that NCC would have lost another game or two (to your point -- a balanced attack keeps the defense off balance and makes it more difficult to prep for).  I certainly am not trying to take anything away from Jones performance, because he is very good (actually he reminds me a bit of Chad Rupp from Franklin).  I am merely trying to point out the fact that Fanthorpe could have put up even better passing numbers in a different scheme -- at a cost.

[Stagg Again!!]

I'd love to hear more about IWU v. Wabash.  Has anyone seen Wabash play this year?  Who are they similar to in the CCIW?  What is the status of their QB that was injured earlier this year?  What is Ladd's status?  This is IWU's moment!!  We will have all winter to talk about how great Evan Jones can be next year.