FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[oldnuthin]

Congratulations to Coach Easch for being voted Co-Coach of the region, along with Larry Kerhes from Mount Union. Another honor for the CCIW.

[ncc58]

As for taking away the chance to play football, I don't see it that way. If there are 20 guys who aren't playing at Wabash maybe they look at playing at Oberlin, or Kenyon, etc. Similar academic institutions tend to group themselves together

Ah, I used to think that way. However, I now believe that with roster limits you'll only see fewer Div III players. Those extra 100 players that aren't playing football at MUC aren't choosing other schools. They just won't play.

Limit Carthage to 100 and those other 60 players aren't going to Carroll or Ripon   or Augustana or Elmhurst. They just won't be college football players.

Schools like North Central, Augustana, and Carthage bring in 60-80 new players each year. However, Wheaton only brings in 30. They don't have 150 players, yet there are still one of the better Div III programs.

I suspect too that there isn't a coach or athletic director that wants to propose any rule changes that are aimed at MUC. They would be saying to their peers that we can't compete with MUC so let's get rid of them. Instead, the coaches will continue to say the politically correct things. We need to recruit better, practice better, prepare better, play better.

[Titan Q]

Andy Studebaker article from the Bloomington Pantagraph...

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/football/professional/nfl/article_e9d4105a-e061-11de-9f2e-001cc4c03286.html

[formerd3db]

At Wabash my freshman year we started with 52 freshmen football players and ended up senior year with like 15. Nearly all of those original 52 guys graduated. In an ideal world a school draws students who go to a school for academics that just happens to have a football team.

With regards to roster limits, and WIAC vs. OAC, the idea is that all those players who aren't seeing the field are still seeing the practice field. In MUC who won 3 of 4 vs. UWW, it should be even more important. MUC has 70-80 guys more they can have practicing and learning the system, building depth, and getting extra experience.

As for taking away the chance to play football, I don't see it that way. If there are 20 guys who aren't playing at Wabash maybe they look at playing at Oberlin, or Kenyon, etc. Similar academic institutions tend to group themselves together anyway. If it doesn't work out, but Wabash is their ideal school it shouldn't matter (see above). Also, to clear up the idea of keeping kids from going to MUC or St. Johns, I just meant, if football is something they really want to do and there is an 80 many roster limit, they will find a school to fit that as part of their need. Because saying you went to a college to play football first is a lot like saying athletics is more important than academics. I went to school to get a degree in Latin, football was just icing on the cake.

Football wise, how does D1 punish teams? They take away scholarships i.e. players. It is a huge part of why SMU sucked for a long time. And it is a great part of why Alabama struggled, and other programs as well. IF you have a pool of 200 players or a pool of 50 that matters.  

I am, however, willing to accept other opinions and proposals on this. I agree that shcolarship limits may not be the answer, but there has to be something. In the NFL they understood that if you wanted parity it meant concessions. At the very least, I think that any team with a losing record could use the 5 extra weeks of practice time. I also agree, beating UWW or MUC on the field is the key, we just haven't seen a lot of that in these last few years, and I wonder how many schools in D3 have the ability to do that on a regular basis ? And, for the record, I didn't start this whole thing. Roster limits were just my idea for closing the gap between the 4 or 5 elite teams and everyone else.

I  don't and probably never will think that d3 is as fair as we could make it. I am still a fan, I still respect every player that sets foot out there, I still enjoy watching games including MUC and UWW. And I accept and embrace things as we have them. I never made an excuse for Wabash. When we lost we lost to better teams. I accpet that. We don't play tee-ball, you accept the losses with the wins. I just didn't always feel like playing a 30 man Oberlin team or a 50 man Earlham squad when we had more o-linemen than that was always the most sporting. You make your bed you lay in it. So to UWW and MUC keep winning, just keep doing it. Let us hate and complain, but until you lose you're doing it right.

As for taking away the chance to play football, I don't see it that way. If there are 20 guys who aren't playing at Wabash maybe they look at playing at Oberlin, or Kenyon, etc. Similar academic institutions tend to group themselves together

Ah, I used to think that way. However, I now believe that with roster limits you'll only see fewer Div III players. Those extra 100 players that aren't playing football at MUC aren't choosing other schools. They just won't play.

Limit Carthage to 100 and those other 60 players aren't going to Carroll or Ripon   or Augustana or Elmhurst. They just won't be college football players.

Schools like North Central, Augustana, and Carthage bring in 60-80 new players each year. However, Wheaton only brings in 30. They don't have 150 players, yet there are still one of the better Div III programs.

I suspect too that there isn't a coach or athletic director that wants to propose any rule changes that are aimed at MUC. They would be saying to their peers that we can't compete with MUC so let's get rid of them. Instead, the coaches will continue to say the politically correct things. We need to recruit better, practice better, prepare better, play better.

You both make some excellent points.  I am not sure where I sit exactly on either side of this, other than I (personally) am not in favor of roster limits at the DIII level.  While I understand the reasoning behind that for some schools, it obviously being their prerogative in choosing to do so, on the other hand, I think that any young man who wants to play football/go out for football at this level (whether highly recruited or not) should have the opportunity to do so.  Whether he then sticks it out all four years or not, or transfers, depending on his own personal situation and experience is his decision.

I agree that having high numbers out for the team is a part of the puzzle for having a decent program.  It is extremely difficult, although not impossible, to get through a season with 40-50 man rosters at some of these schools.  However, the alternative i.e. dropping the program is not, IMO, the answer.  Indeed, we've all seen schools over the years that have had some tough segments in low numbers of players that have "stayed the course", make it through and eventually, through good recruiting, backing of a good administration and alumni, with new attitudes and upgrading facilities, have improved their programs, to at least be (somewhat ) competitive, although some may never be powerhouses or always in the top tier of their programs.  Again, though, each school is different and has to make their own policies and direction.

I also agree with you that bringing in high numbers in recruiting classes is an important factor.  We'll always see that attrition for the variety of reasons you mention, including student-athletes becoming disenchanted with non-playing time (although some will stick it out over the four years), perhaps finding that there are just other players better than they are, and/or simply not having the desire to play football anymore including, for some, just due to the extreme time commitment.  I'm excluding the academic side here, because we all agree that is the most important aspect of this, which the majority of players agree with i.e. the goal being graduation with their degree, although it can't be denied that for some players, playing football in college (wherever) is the factor that keeps them toward that goal -and...IMO, there is nothing wrong with that either.  You cite the example of your own recruiting class attrition - when I was at Hope, ours was similar in that they brought in 40 of us my freshman year and we ended up with 14 seniors who went the distance for all four years.

The Mount Union example is somewhat, although not entirely, puzzling to me as I often wonder (like some of you) as to why some of those players want to go there when they know that there is a very potential chance of not seeing much playing time and as you mention, many could be starting and/or key contributors at other schools right away and/or much earlier.  Yet, we all know that many players know they will just have to wait their turn, work up the ladder and are satisfied with finally making it for the final two years as starters or high playing time and/or key contributors.  Many examples of that at all the levels including DI level where a player is satisfied with just the enjoyment of being on the team and/or even a short moment of "glory" - again, though, each person has to make their own choices.  

Anyway, each school and/or conference makes their own decisions as well.  While I respect and understand such rules as those confences that have the roster limits, again, personally, I hope ours never goes to that (I doubt it will though).  Good discussion guys and valid points on both sides of the issue.  

[usee]

Congratulations to the CCIW players who get to extend their careers at least one more saturday by playing in the Mexico All-Star game on Dec 19th:

QB Aaron Fanthorpe, NCC
OL Josh Delancy, NCC
DL Tim Janecek, NCC
OL Blaine Westermeyer, Augie
LB Aaron Setchell, Augie
RB Jake Parke, Augie

Good luck to these guys and have fun.

[gryfalia]

Andy Studebaker article from the Bloomington Pantagraph...

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/football/professional/nfl/article_e9d4105a-e061-11de-9f2e-001cc4c03286.html

This being in the local paper was a surprise to me, but I guess it shouldn't be, since Eureka is so close to town.

Was a good article tho, and gave me a chance to throw out a good ole Wheaton 'Wooooha'...

[FormerCard]

Congratulations to the CCIW players who get to extend their careers at least one more saturday by playing in the Mexico All-Star game on Dec 19th:

QB Aaron Fanthorpe, NCC
OL Josh Delancy, NCC
DL Tim Janecek, NCC
OL Blaine Westermeyer, Augie
LB Aaron Setchell, Augie
RB Jake Parke, Augie

Good luck to these guys and have fun.

Also congrats to NCC coaches Brad Spencer and Rick Ponx who will be coaching in the game...

Any word on the All Star game today in Salem? 

[oldnuthin]

Congratulations to the 18 CCIW player who made the All Region Team. Nickolich. Westermeyer and Koeneman on the first team

[Stagg Again!!]

Congratulations to the 18 CCIW player who made the All Region Team. Nickolich. Westermeyer and Koeneman on the first team

It was great to see so many CCIW players on the All North Region Team, but I found it a bit odd that none of the players from the team with the #1 scoring offense in the entire UNITED STATES could crack into the All REGION team.  Hmmm....

[oldnuthin]

Congratulations to the 18 CCIW player who made the All Region Team. Nickolich. Westermeyer and Koeneman on the first team

It was great to see so many CCIW players on the All North Region Team, but I found it a bit odd that none of the players from the team with the #1 scoring offense in the entire UNITED STATES could crack into the All REGION team.  Hmmm....

You mean first team right?

[CardinalAlum]

Brian Kelly was asked specifically during his press conference about bringing former Millikin great, Chuck Martin, to ND with him to coach.  That would be an unbelievable opportunity for Chuck if it were to happen.  Here is Chuck's bio from the Grand Valley State site:

http://www.gvsulakers.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/martin_chuck00.html

[badgerwarhawk]

Congratulations to Augustana's  Blaine Westemeyer winner of the 2009 Gagliardi Trophy

[HScoach]

yup.  what he ^ said!

[skunks_sidekick]

Yup....what THEY said! 

I think it's about time a big boy won the award. 

[usee]

Wow. That's big news. I am more than a bit shocked. Congratulations to Blaine and the Augie program for bringing the 2nd Gagliardi award to the CCIW. It is a great honor to recieve the most prestigious D3 award in addition to being the first Lineman EVER. That is a serious accomplishment.