FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Son of Tailgater]

Any historians out there know what the best out-of conference record is in CCIW history?

season	W-L	win pct	teams that lost
2010	22-2	.917	Augustana & North Park
1980	8-1	.889	Carroll
1965	12-2	.857	Millikin & North Park
1983	9-2	.818	Illinois Wesleyan & Millikin
1978	7-2	.778	Carthage & North Park
1991	7-2	.778	Elmhurst & North Park

Keep in mind, though, that the 2010 season is still in progress. How the CCIW's representative(s) fare(s) in the postseason will affect these numbers.

Interesting thing about the 1983 season: Carroll did not play a non-conference game that year, for whatever reason. At that time, the format was that each team played nine games, eight in the CCIW round-robin plus one non-conference game. Carroll's lone non-conference game was apparently canceled, which was good news for the league because the Pioneers stunk. They went 0-8 for the season (and, thus, 0-8 in the CCIW) and in only two games did they hold down the final margin to single digits. The Pioneers lost by over 18 ppg that season. If they had played that non-conference game, chances are good that they would've lost it. Augustana won all three post-season games en route to the D3 national title that year; hence, the eleven total non-conference games played by the league in 1983.

In 1965 the CCIW was down to seven members: Augustana, Carroll, Carthage, Illinois Wesleyan, Millikin, North Central, and North Park. Each team played eight games, consisting of the six-game CCIW round-robin plus two non-conference games. Since no CCIW team made a postseason appearance that year (as also was the case in '78, '80, and '91), it added up to fourteen non-conference games played by the circuit as a whole.

Great insight GS! You are correct in saying that playoff games DO count. So we will have to wait and see if the winning percentage holds up. Having 3 teams in and having three losses even with wins could drop 2010 below 1980's record. Even two teams in and going 2-2 would hurt (.857 if we were 2-2).

Thank you Mugsy, Stagg or Bust, sflzman and Usee for the insight on those two games. I am hoping to make the Carthage/NCC game this week for my first D3 game this year. Coaching on Saturdays has been getting in the way but I will be here and there as I only have 3 weeks left. I will make the drive up from Bloomington after my game and hopefully get there before the game starts. Tailgater - save me a brat please 

[Gregory Sager]

22-2 for the non-conference schedule. To put this in perspective the CCIW's opponents for those games are a combined 23-47. Only 5 of the 19 different opponents have winning records and the CCIW is 3-2 against those schools. Good but not great.

This is only a meaningful statistic if other conferences that are touting their sparkling non-conference records have OWPs that are significantly better than the CCIW's .329. Otherwise, there's really no perspective to be had; it's all simply testimony to the truism that there are haves and have-nots, and the CCIW consists of a bunch of haves that beat up on the have-nots.

In other words, perspective requires some sort of a basis for comparison, and you really haven't provided that yet.

[Stagg Again!!]

So, which would you prefer a 22-2 record (.917 winning percentage) against teams with a .329 winning percentage (per Gregory Sager's calculations) or a 11-12 record (.478 winning percentage) against teams with a .571 winning percentage (my calculations) as is the case with the WIAC to date (through 9/25/10)?  

Collectively, the WIAC teams have played a number of Top 25 teams (Mt. Union, Central, St. Johns, NCC, Wheaton, Wilamette, Mary Hardin-Baylor, ONU, St. Thomas, Trine), but they have also played Adrian, Albion, Buena Vista, Dubuque, Eureka, East Texas Baptist, and a slew of NAIA teams with poor records this year.

Oh yes, I have one more point here.  The WIAC teams are 1-9 against the Top 25 teams that they have played this year.  Their only win was the UW-EC victory over St. Johns.  UW-O lost to Mt. Union and Central; UW-EC beat St. Johns and lost to NCC; UW-P lost to Wheaton; UW-SP lost to Wilamette; UW-L lost to Mary Hardin-Baylor; and UW-RF lost to ONU, St. Thomas, and Trine.

[usee]

22-2 for the non-conference schedule. To put this in perspective the CCIW's opponents for those games are a combined 23-47. Only 5 of the 19 different opponents have winning records and the CCIW is 3-2 against those schools. Good but not great.

GS, I believe my point is still valid. The perspective I provided is the fact that 22-2 was attained vs largely bad competition. Your point is entirely different than mine.

This is only a meaningful statistic if other conferences that are touting their sparkling non-conference records have OWPs that are significantly better than the CCIW's .329. Otherwise, there's really no perspective to be had; it's all simply testimony to the truism that there are haves and have-nots, and the CCIW consists of a bunch of haves that beat up on the have-nots.

In other words, perspective requires some sort of a basis for comparison, and you really haven't provided that yet.

[Pat Coleman]

Oh yes, I have one more point here.  The WIAC teams are 1-9 against the Top 25 teams that they have played this year.  Their only win was the UW-EC victory over St. Johns.  UW-O lost to Mt. Union and Central; UW-EC beat St. Johns and lost to NCC; UW-P lost to Wheaton; UW-SP lost to Wilamette; UW-L lost to Mary Hardin-Baylor; and UW-RF lost to ONU, St. Thomas, and Trine.

I think if you look at the rank of the teams involved, the WIAC team would be favored in one of those games.

[cardinaldad]

New poll is out:

NCC 10th
Wheaton 21
Illinois Wesleyan 22

     The Wheaton/Wesleyan matchup should be the game of the week according to the rankings. However, I have a gut feeling that it's not going to be close. Wheaton will win this one easily!

[cardinaldad]

I, too, thought the UWEC band was great and added a lot to the atmosphere of the game.  I was impressed not just by their sound but also by their behavior - they supported their team, applauded the NCC band and even sang along with the NCC band's first postgame tune.  

Great point ncc_fan. They really added to the atmosphere of the game with their singing when the NCC band played, etc. They even played for a long time after the game while the fans were on the field. They were so spirited, you would have thought their team won the game. Very classy!!

[oldnuthin]

Another schizophrenic game Millikin. It was obvious from the outset who was the better team, but once again the Millikin offense only responded when the they were forced to. Greenville has some very good athletes and broke a couple of long runs. Chase Gruening shot down their pass game early by pressuring or sacking the QB every time he dropped back. th defense was stout after giving up the long runs and held Greenville to 3 field goals. Their lone td came on a 52 yd run right up the gut. If memory serves, the O was inside the 20 2x and came away with no points, once due to a fumble. they really need to get a sense of urgency, which I hope conference play will bring, the O line looked good and Dion went for another 240. The tackles looked very good in their run blocking and the new right tackle, Moore I believe his name is, was a real treat to watch, good mobility with some killer blocks. Their Secondary is young and alot of fun to watch. 2 picks on the day with 2 others that were dropped. If this team can find consistency, they could surprise some people this year. Really looking forward to see the Augie match up.

[AndOne]

I, too, thought the UWEC band was great and added a lot to the atmosphere of the game.  I was impressed not just by their sound but also by their behavior - they supported their team, applauded the NCC band and even sang along with the NCC band's first postgame tune.  

Great point ncc_fan. They really added to the atmosphere of the game with their singing when the NCC band played, etc. They even played for a long time after the game while the fans were on the field. They were so spirited, you would have thought their team won the game. Very classy!!

Without a doubt, the best D3 band I've ever seen, and one that I'd bet could rival even some D1 bands. They played at appropriate times during the game, and even had organized cheers in support of their team. As previously indicated, they put on a great impromptu concert after the game while still occupying the visitors stands. Its unfortunate that most of the NCC crowd had departed by that time with only the NCC players, the cheerleaders, and their families on the field as usual after the game.
I talked with some of the UWEC band members as they boarded their buses, and found them to be a very classy group. Judging from the tunes they played after the game, I would have loved to have seen them on the field either before the game or in an extended halftime show. With the number of band members they brought and their skill and enthusiasm, I bet they would put on a heck of a show. I think I heard they have 230 kids in the band!

[matblake]

I was at the Olivet/Wheaton game.  Their set up there is very nice.  Good field, and all the staff/student help were on top of things.  I particularly liked that they had handicapped seating in both the home and visitor sections.   Granted, I haven't been at a CCIW stadium outside of Wheaton since 1997 so perhaps this is the norm now.

Unfortunately, I learned very little about what Wheaton might have this year.  Good time for the back ups though.  Some of them were extremely excited about getting some time on the field. 

Now the conference slate begins.  Honestly, I'm a bit concerned about Wheaton this week v IWU.  Both teams did what they were supposed to do in the non-conference portion.  Guess we'll all see what happens.  The Titans do seem to have had the Thunder's number recently. 

I think North Park's best chance at getting a conference win comes this week against Elmhurst.  Good luck to both teams.

[OC_SID]

I was at the Olivet/Wheaton game.  Their set up there is very nice.  Good field, and all the staff/student help were on top of things.  I particularly liked that they had handicapped seating in both the home and visitor sections.   Granted, I haven't been at a CCIW stadium outside of Wheaton since 1997 so perhaps this is the norm now.

Unfortunately, I learned very little about what Wheaton might have this year.  Good time for the back ups though.  Some of them were extremely excited about getting some time on the field. 

Glad that you had a great time during your visit to Olivet. Best of luck to Wheaton for the rest of the 2010 season.

[Gregory Sager]

GS, I believe my point is still valid. The perspective I provided is the fact that 22-2 was attained vs largely bad competition. Your point is entirely different than mine.

My issue with your post was with your concluding judgment, "Good, not great." That's where it becomes a perspective that requires external comparisons. Good, but not great, as compared to what?

[hornet]

Looking at the top 25 and the teams getting other votes.  CCIW has 6 teams WIAC has 5  OAC has 4  ,thats just a quick glance at it . I know things will change soon though.

[Gregory Sager]

I think North Park's best chance at getting a conference win comes this week against Elmhurst.

NPU agrees with you, as the relative vulnerability of Elmhurst in comparison to Augustana (the other CCIW team that will visit Hedstrand Field in October) is one of the reasons why this was chosen to be North Park's Homecoming Weekend. Nevertheless, the Park still has to be considered a distinct underdog in Saturday's game. How much of an underdog is something best left to those of you who participate in the pick'ems.

[79jaybird]

Keep in mind NPU had Elmhurst dead to rights a few years back and EC rallied to win that game.  Still not sure how but NPU had their opportunity.