FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[02 Warhawk]

Also, unfortunately, SoS is not calculated only by non-conference games.  Overall, NCC .523; UWW .487.

You must have gotten let down by your 'weak' conference!

[And playing winless d3 teams is not better than playing NAIA teams.  NAIA games just don't count; winless d3 teams drag down your score.  That's why NCC had the lowest(?) SoS in the CCIW.]

I always assumed the fact that UWW only has 7 regional wins held them back...compared to STU's 10 wins in the west. Obviously both teams had a perfect record, but I thought those three extra regional wins gave STU a little edge (not counting their SOS, which is better).

[Mr. Ypsi]

Also, unfortunately, SoS is not calculated only by non-conference games.  Overall, NCC .523; UWW .487.

You must have gotten let down by your 'weak' conference!

[And playing winless d3 teams is not better than playing NAIA teams.  NAIA games just don't count; winless d3 teams drag down your score.  That's why NCC had the lowest(?) SoS in the CCIW.]

I always assumed the fact that UWW only has 7 regional wins held them back...compared to STU's 10 wins in the west. Obviously both teams had a perfect record, but I thought those three extra regional wins gave STU a little edge (not counting their SOS, which is better).

Yes.  I've expressed the opinion several times that I assume that is why St. Thomas was ahead (quite frankly, I was a bit surprised that Wartburg wasn't also ahead).

But in terms of SoS specifically, a winless in-region team is certainly worse than an out-of-region or NAIA team.

[bleedpurple]

Also, unfortunately, SoS is not calculated only by non-conference games.  Overall, NCC .523; UWW .487.

You must have gotten let down by your 'weak' conference!

[And playing winless d3 teams is not better than playing NAIA teams.  NAIA games just don't count; winless d3 teams drag down your score.  That's why NCC had the lowest(?) SoS in the CCIW.]

Well if UWW's NAIA wins could be counted it would help. Dakota State didn't win a game but Campbellsville was 7-4. That would have help boost the SOS for sure. Too bad the NCAA doesn't count ALL games for SOS.

None of it matters. The Committee and Mr. Y are both on record as stating that North Central is better than UW-W. If I am reading Mr. Y correctly, "clearly better" may be the way he would phrase it.  We will find out soon enough. 

I don't recall ever saying NCC was 'clearly better' (or even 'better') than UWW.  I pointed out that, despite a horrid non-con slate, they had a higher SoS.  Kindly do not put words in my mouth - it is unsanitary.

IF UWW and NCC meet, I will predict UWW the winner (though being in Naperville might even the odds a bit).

Just messing with ya, Y.  We know that you know... 

[bleedpurple]

Certainly mean no disrespect to NC or the CCIW in terms of the level of upset here in WIAC country today.  Congrats on a great season.  Would it be controversial to suggest that  maybe Mt Union should be a #2 instead of UWW?  I mean, if we're throwing out the past, let's go whole hog.

Since the second regional rankings for the North had #1 Wheaton, #2 NCC, #3 UMU, and NCC proceeded to dismantle Wheaton (28-6), followed by UMU jumping to #1, I daresay there are many who would agree!

I suspect essentially everyone here is shocked that UMU and UWW are not both #1 seeds.

BUT, by the published criteria (which don't include what you did last year), what argument can you really make that THIS year UWW deserves a #1 any MORE than 10-0 St. Thomas or 10-0 NCC?

[/b]

North Central's non-conference Schedule:

Cornell (0-10)
Olivet (0-10)
UW-Eau Claire (4-6)

If that isn't a strong enough "Strength of Schedule" to leapfrog the defending National Champions, I don't know what would be.  

Maybe the committee took previous years' accomplishments into consideration more than we thought.  After all, it was way back in 2007 that UW-W beat North Central by 31 points.  Since then, all these purple tinted glass wearing Warhawks backers seem to forget that NCC won a playoff game.  Yep, they beat Thomas More. And by 21 POINTS, too! Yep. Three touchdowns baby.  

The good news, is that the committee's opinion will be virtually meaningless when the teams take the field.  The most meaningful thing that comes to my mind at this point is October 2, 2004.

October 2, 2004: The date of the last Division 3 road game that UW-W lost in any city other than Salem, VA.

News Flash:

UWW hasnt lost on the road in 6 years and may never lose on the road again!   No need for the other team to show up!

That wouldn't make the committee very happy now would it? 

[Mugsy]

Did a quick dive to learn more on Coe and it looks like a strength on strength matchup - Coe's offense vs. Wheaton's defense.

Coe has a 1200 yard rusher and a QB who averages 270 yards a game, 64% completion rate, 23 TD's passes and only 5 INT's. Coe has 6 receivers with at least 15 receptions and 200 yards.

Key players on Coe offense:
PASSING  GP-GS  Effic  Cmp-Att-Int  Pct  Yards   TD  Long  Avg/G  
Brad Boyle   10-10  175.4  170-264-5  64.4  2704  23  84  270.4  

RUSHING  GP-GS  Att  Gain  Loss  Net  Avg   TD  Long  Avg/G  
Brendan Leiran   10-10  200  1194  15  1179  5.9  9  75  117.9  

Wheaton pass defense:
PASS DEF EFFICIENCY      G   Att  Cmp  Int  Pct.  Yds TD Effic
--------------------------------------------------------------
1. Wheaton.............      10   331  155   22  46.8 1945 12  94.9

Wheaton rush defense:
RUSHING DEFENSE          G  Rushes  Yards  Avg.  TD  Yds/G
----------------------------------------------------------
        Wheaton............. 10     335    995   3.0   7   99.5

[Stagg Again!!]

Gosh, with all the posts flying around this afternoon, I'm sorry that I didn't have time to join in the fray earlier.  Looks like we have been seeing the first two of the five stages of grief play out all afternoon though -- denial and anger.  I am sure that life will be good again once UWW has had a chance to extract its pound of flesh from FC and/or Trine (two interesting, if not tough, draws -- even for the Warhawks).  I must say, however, that, even though Pat Coleman cautioned me several times, I am still a bit surprised that the NCAA pulled the string and dropped UWW to a #2 seed -- seems silly, even to this second-stringer, that UWW is a #2 and UST is a #1.

Enough about the third round of the playoffs though -- I can't think that far ahead with so many posters telling me that WC and NCC won't even make it that far .  I am just thrilled that the CCIW has two strong representatives in the first round (and could have possibly had a third if IWU had won last Saturday).  As all of the regular posters on this board are aware, this is a strong conference -- even though one WIAC poster so kindly said that we all suck (thank you Warhawk 96).  After seeing many of the top teams in the North and West regions over the past twenty-plus years (and East if you count Mount Union ), I think that the conference's two representatives have a good chance to fair well in this year's playoffs.  Given my natural tendency to have tunnel-vision at this time of the year (I only think one week at a time), I would love to hear more about the first round match-ups (WC v. Coe and NCC v. St. Norbert).  Possibly some friendlier IIAC or MWC posters could share some insights about their favorite teams.  

[Mr. Ypsi]

Gosh, with all the posts flying around this afternoon, I'm sorry that I didn't have time to join in the fray earlier.  Looks like we have been seeing the first two of the five stages of grief play out all afternoon though -- denial and anger.  I am sure that life will be good again once UWW has had a chance to extract its pound of flesh from FC and/or Trine (two interesting, if not tough, draws -- even for the Warhawks).  I must say, however, that, even though Pat Coleman cautioned me several times, I am still a bit surprised that the NCAA pulled the string and dropped UWW to a #2 seed -- seems silly, even to this second-stringer, that UWW is a #2 and UST is a #1.

Enough about the third round of the playoffs though -- I can't think that far ahead with so many posters telling me that WC and NCC won't even make it that far .  I am just thrilled that the CCIW has two strong representatives in the first round (and could have possibly had a third if IWU had won last Saturday).  As all of the regular posters on this board are aware, this is a strong conference -- even though one WIAC poster so kindly said that we all suck (thank you Warhawk 96).  After seeing many of the top teams in the North and West regions over the past twenty-plus years (and East if you count Mount Union ), I think that the conference's two representatives have a good chance to fair well in this year's playoffs.  Given my natural tendency to have tunnel-vision at this time of the year (I only think one week at a time), I would love to hear more about the first round match-ups (WC v. Coe and NCC v. St. Norbert).  Possibly some friendlier IIAC or MWC posters could share some insights about their favorite teams.  

Both the IIAC and MWC boards are pretty welcoming (as long as a poster doesn't come with an attitude) if you want to go ask your questions there.

[coocooforcoekohawk]

Anyone have the number to the Warrenville Hyatt?

[HScoach]

Gosh, with all the posts flying around this afternoon, I'm sorry that I didn't have time to join in the fray earlier.  Looks like we have been seeing the first two of the five stages of grief play out all afternoon though -- denial and anger.  I am sure that life will be good again once UWW has had a chance to extract its pound of flesh from FC and/or Trine (two interesting, if not tough, draws -- even for the Warhawks).  I must say, however, that, even though Pat Coleman cautioned me several times, I am still a bit surprised that the NCAA pulled the string and dropped UWW to a #2 seed -- seems silly, even to this second-stringer, that UWW is a #2 and UST is a #1.

UWW by 30+ in both of those games.   And it won't be as close as the score would indicate.

[FormerCard]

Anyone have the number to the Warrenville Hyatt?

www.hyattplacechicagowarrenville.com - 27576 Maecliff Drive, Warrenville - (630) 836-9800

[Shark]

And this isn't a matter of "D3 is turning into ...", either. The NCAA has been using pre-established criteria in selecting and seeding its D3 tournaments for many years now.

Except UWW and Mount Union have never had the best SOS. Yet they've always been a No. 1 seed. Therein lies the tub.

Exactly Pat. That SOS criterion was not strictly applied in past years. Can we assume this is the new standard going forward? If so, UWW and UMU will be at a distinct disadvantage with the non-conference game (s) and difficulty finding quality opponent for that game.

[footballfan413]

Also, unfortunately, SoS is not calculated only by non-conference games.  Overall, NCC .523; UWW .487.

You must have gotten let down by your 'weak' conference!

[And playing winless d3 teams is not better than playing NAIA teams.  NAIA games just don't count; winless d3 teams drag down your score.  That's why NCC had the lowest(?) SoS in the CCIW.]

That is not what Mr. Sager said.  Which is is?  Does all games figure into the SOS, or just the Non-conference?   Thought I knew the answer but now you two have me confused...............    

But, inasmuch as the WIAC has a bunch of teams in it that have 4-3 and 3-4 records, that's immaterial. Every league in the nation has the wins and losses within its schedule add up to zero. It doesn't matter if you have four teams that are 4-3 and four teams that are 3-4, or a 7-0, 6-1, 5-2, 4-3, 3-4, 2-5, 1-6, 0-7 spread, it all comes out the same:  28 games played, 28 wins, 28 losses. Same as next year, same as last year, same as the year before.

It's your non-conference games, and those of your league opponents, that matter in terms of determining SOS.

Either way, it seems that the committee has decided, this season, that only using SOS means the Warhawks are SOL.   Like I said, look at how they ranked the brackets, forget about whose #1 and #2 in our bracket..........the North with the #1 and #5 team in the country, (according to national polls,)  is #4?    
  It is a set up, Gentlemen, clearly!  I'm just not sure why we were targeted and UMU was given a pass to the #1 seed in the North recently, despite NCC's win over the #1, and again moved to the weak East bracket.  But I guess, we are still considered the, "upstarts," to the Mount.  And before I hear again, that NCC deserved the #1 over UWW based on SOS, let me remind you that math told us that they also deserved it a week ago over UMU but didn't get it.      But the Hawks will take the games one at a time, play them wherever required and, hopefully, play again in Salem.  I am just sorry about 2 things, that this little farce pitted so many UWW fans against NCC fans.  The upper tier of the CCIW is top drawer,  Second and most importantly, I am pissed we miss out on the chance for 2 more times to tailgate at the Perk.  Win your games, Cards, we will try to win ours and then...............let's do this thing. 

By the way, NCC against St. Norberts?    You win by 30, and how ironic is it that NCC's only 4 wins by NC opponents came from a WIAC team.   

[footballfan413]

And this isn't a matter of "D3 is turning into ...", either. The NCAA has been using pre-established criteria in selecting and seeding its D3 tournaments for many years now.

Except UWW and Mount Union have never had the best SOS. Yet they've always been a No. 1 seed. Therein lies the tub.

Exactly Pat. That SOS criterion was not strictly applied in past years. Can we assume this is the new standard going forward? If so, UWW and UMU will be at a distinct disadvantage with the 1 non-conference game and difficulty finding quality opponent for that game.

Who knows, Shark.  Apparently the committee likes to mix it up..........
  And if it does become the standard, seems they figured out a way to try and change the look of the Stagg Bowl, eventually anyway.   

[robertgoulet]

I can't help to wonder if I would have rather had the #2 seed in this region instead of the #1.

I consider 2nd round matchup between ONU/Witt winner much more difficult than what UWW will face (DePauw/Trine).


Maybe we can offer to swap seeds with UWW as a show of good faith 

[robertgoulet]

Also, I would like to toot my own horn for my CCIW Pick-Ems performance. After a DNP in week 2 I came with-in 2 points of the lead.

Thank you. Thank you.