FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[NCF]

RG,

I did say that NCC could compete with UWW and UMU this year, however, I don't consider them to be in the "tier 1" of D3 because they played UWW tough.  If that were the case, Trine would have to be in the discussion as well, because they went on the road and were tied with UWW going into the 4th before losing.  Until we don't have the annual match-up between those two in the Stagg Bowl, there is UWW and UMU and everyone else.

I certainly understand the excitement of the NCC faithful based on how the program has progressed since Thorne arrived.  The program has grown tremendously, but I'm not ready to annoit them as the next UWW or UMU.  I do think there is potential for this to happen, but they are not there yet.  I can't forget that they were heavy favorites to win the CCIW last year and highly nationally ranked, and then didn't make the playoffs.  I know there were injuries, but championship teams overcome them as UWW did with losing their starting QB this year in the playoffs.  IMO, talk of being the next UWW or UMU is a bit pre-mature when the best showing ever for the program on the national stage is a quarterfinal loss.

Hope you don't take this as me being critical of the NCC program.  I have nothing but respect/admiration (and a little bit of envy) for what has happened there over the past several years.  I just can't justify talking about the program in the same breath as UWW or UMU yet.

If I didn't explain well enough, I apologize, but that's what I was getting at. NCC may have been on the cusp of Tier 1 this year (the one point we do disagree on), but they have to prove that they can reload at that level, that's a whole different animal and we won't know that answer until next year.

Honestly, and I don't think NCC my fellow NCC backers will like this, I kind of think NCC may have missed their best shot at the title. You had a year where both UWW and Mt Union had injuries to key players late in the playoffs, NCC was healthy, we had Wenger back for his final year, home field advantage into the semi's.

I do hope I am wrong and NCC reloads. I didn't think we would when Lenny left in 05, but we plugged in Wenger and he turned out to be better than Lenny. I generally don't like being wrong, but in this case I will gladly accept it 

First, I'd like to wish everyone a Merry Christmas and get in one last post before I leave school for break. I never watched North Central play before the season opener last year. I knew where they were ranked and how they were expected to do, but they sure didn't show it on the field. I think that last year was an eye-opener for the staff between the injuries and the fact that they did not play up to expectations. If you get a chance to read some of the articles, interviews or watch any of the Red Zone programs, you will understand that the ultimate goal of the TEAM is to get to the National Championship. The team will not rely on just the stars to get them to that goal. It has to be a team effort and they need to develop players that can roll right into a spot that becomes open due to injury or ineffectiveness. I'm pretty sure that 2009 proved to be a valuable lesson that helped NC get to the quarters this year.
However, next season will be a pretty good indicator if the new philosophy of rotating players, getting starters more breaks during a game and developing players for the future has paid off. 

[New Tradition]

I didn't think we would when Lenny left in 05, but we plugged in Wenger and he turned out to be better than Lenny.

I'm not so sure about that...

[usee]

About what?

[robertgoulet]

I didn't think we would when Lenny left in 05, but we plugged in Wenger and he turned out to be better than Lenny.

I'm not so sure about that...

Surely you can't be serious.

[usee]

RG,

I agree. Lenny Radtke was  a great LB at NCC and in the CCIW, but I can name about 10 other LB's I would put with him. The list Wenger is on is about 2 deep. Radke can't run anywhere near as fast as Wenger and simply wasn't as explosive. Radtke was like Rusty VanWetzinga from Augie in the 90's, Chip Parrish from Wheaton, Justin Knapp from Wheaton, or even Randy Wright even this year at Elmhurst. Wenger type guys?? I would say Jon Munch from IWU and maybe Chad Thorsen from Wheaton are the only two who are even close. Both those guys had NFL careers (in multiple camps but never made a team). Munch was an outside LB and was just as fast as Wenger but a taller, more athletic body type. Thorson was bigger, more physical (6'1" 245) but could run very well. Munch, Thorson, and Wenger were multi year POY's and the 1st two were in NFL camps. Thorson actually played in the Senior Bowl. Munch nearly made the Patriots team after one of their Super Bowl runs.

Radtke was good but he was a step below those guys in my opinion.

[emma17]

Three great names for linebackers- Thorsen, Munch and Wenger- I sure hope Wenger makes an NFL team.

Congrats to NCC, I was glad to see them ranked third in the fan poll- and not forth (and with at least some discussion at #2).   
 

[New Tradition]

I didn't think we would when Lenny left in 05, but we plugged in Wenger and he turned out to be better than Lenny.

I'm not so sure about that...

Surely you can't be serious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A5t5_O8hdA

Lenny had 466 tackles to Wenger's 422.  Wenger also played 7.5 more games than Lenny between playoffs and the half a game he played his first senior year at Ohio Northern.  That means Lenny averaged 11.4 tackles per game to Wenger's 8.7.  And, as a whole, Wenger had a much better d-line to keep the offensive linemen off of him than Lenny did.  Was Wenger more explosive?  Certainly.  He was impressive because he really made contact with an exclamation point.  But I think that Lenny had a better nose for the ball and the numbers show it.

[WarhawkDad]

I didn't think we would when Lenny left in 05, but we plugged in Wenger and he turned out to be better than Lenny.

I'm not so sure about that...

Surely you can't be serious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A5t5_O8hdA

Lenny had 466 tackles to Wenger's 422.  Wenger also played 7.5 more games than Lenny between playoffs and the half a game he played his first senior year at Ohio Northern.  That means Lenny averaged 11.4 tackles per game to Wenger's 8.7.  And, as a whole, Wenger had a much better d-line to keep the offensive linemen off of him than Lenny did.  Was Wenger more explosive?  Certainly.  He was impressive because he really made contact with an exclamation point.  But I think that Lenny had a better nose for the ball and the numbers show it.

I do not want to comment about which player might be better, but I would like to make an observation about statistics being misleading.  An excellent defensive player on an average team will have outstanding statisctics because they are often the one ending up having to make tackles.  The same player on a very good defense will still be an excellent player, but other players step up and make plays.

Without trying to promote UWW too much, I would like to use them as an example.  Not one defensive player on the D3football All American First or Second team, yet the defense as a unit was darn good. 

Just food for thought.  It may apply to your conversation. They actually could be very similar talent.

Happy Holidays

[CardinalAlum]

I didn't think we would when Lenny left in 05, but we plugged in Wenger and he turned out to be better than Lenny.

I'm not so sure about that...

Surely you can't be serious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A5t5_O8hdA

Lenny had 466 tackles to Wenger's 422.  Wenger also played 7.5 more games than Lenny between playoffs and the half a game he played his first senior year at Ohio Northern.  That means Lenny averaged 11.4 tackles per game to Wenger's 8.7.  And, as a whole, Wenger had a much better d-line to keep the offensive linemen off of him than Lenny did.  Was Wenger more explosive?  Certainly.  He was impressive because he really made contact with an exclamation point.  But I think that Lenny had a better nose for the ball and the numbers show it.

Sorry, NT, this isn't close.  Radtke was an outstanding LB, but Wenger was at a whole higher level. 

[Mugsy]

I didn't think we would when Lenny left in 05, but we plugged in Wenger and he turned out to be better than Lenny.

I'm not so sure about that...

Surely you can't be serious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A5t5_O8hdA

Lenny had 466 tackles to Wenger's 422.  Wenger also played 7.5 more games than Lenny between playoffs and the half a game he played his first senior year at Ohio Northern.  That means Lenny averaged 11.4 tackles per game to Wenger's 8.7.  And, as a whole, Wenger had a much better d-line to keep the offensive linemen off of him than Lenny did.  Was Wenger more explosive?  Certainly.  He was impressive because he really made contact with an exclamation point.  But I think that Lenny had a better nose for the ball and the numbers show it.

Sorry, NT, this isn't close.  Radtke was an outstanding LB, but Wenger was at a whole higher level. 

I'm in agreement as well.  As good as Radtke was, Wenger was better. I don't care if Radtke had 40 something more tackles.  Tackles are not the only measure of an LB's effectiveness.

[Mugsy]

Great article from the Titans website on the nature of being a practice squad player in the NFL.

http://www.titansonline.com/news/article-1/Practice-Squad-Players-Patiently-Wait-for-Opportunity/95fe4b73-76e3-480b-8fb6-d06b914c6c22

[usee]

mugsy,

Could you please refer to them as the Tennessee Titans. Otherwise some may think you have gone to the dark side! 

[Mr. Ypsi]

mugsy,

Could you please refer to them as the Tennessee Titans. Otherwise some may think you have gone to the dark side! 

I assume you mean UW-Oshkosh .

Or are you THAT scared of MY Titans?

[CardinalAlum]

mugsy,

Could you please refer to them as the Tennessee Titans. Otherwise some may think you have gone to the dark side! 

That was the first thing that popped into my head as well!!   

Here's hoping for a wonderful Holiday for all of you!  It's been another great year of CCIW play (well, better for some of us!).

[footballfan413]

Happy Holidays to the CCIW crew!  Hope it is filled with lots of  love, friends and family and that 2011 is one of hope, peace and prosperity for all!  It's almost next year!