FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Gregory Sager]

As for Joe Pa- I will wait until all info is out. However, I will ask, how many people out there would directly call the police on a 20+ year friend?

If there was evidence that he had raped a child, I wouldn't be able to get my cell phone out of my pocket fast enough to call the cops on my 20+ year friend.

[CardinalAlum]

As for Joe Pa- I will wait until all info is out. However, I will ask, how many people out there would directly call the police on a 20+ year friend?

If there was evidence that he had raped a child, I wouldn't be able to get my cell phone out of my pocket fast enough to call the cops on my 20+ year friend.

Completely agree with GS!!

[Always.A.Titan]

I strongly agree with Cardinal on the PSU situation.  There is much more to come out and Penn State is going to be dealing with the reputational and legal fall-out of this case for many years to come.  Sad to see JoPa not go out in a honorable way, given the many good things he's done for his players, program and his university, but he surely missed the moral call on this one bigtime.

An important lesson, the university (the overall educational and institutional mission and interest) is always bigger than any athletic program or personage.  Seems the Penn State President and senior administrators in this case didn't adher to this truth for many years.  Now a heavy price to be paid by all involved, including sadly the otherwise good name of Penn State University. 

IWU70

I think they will eventually clean out the entire house. I am confused as to why Paterno was ousted, but McQueary is still on the coaching staff? That one doesn't add up to me. It also bugs me that they fired JoePa by handing him an envelope which gave him a phone number to call to tell him that he was fired. I was also unimpressed by the press conference last night and by Surma's explanations. It bothered me that they couldn't explain their process of deliberation which caused them to fire JoePa late last night as opposed to the afternoon or the day before. JoePa has been used as a bit of a scapegoat. Obviously, it appears he missed the moral train on this one, but I am going to give it time to see all of the details first. This is really taking the focus away from Sandusky though.

[oldnuthin]

All of these non-CCIW posters here. Goodness. It must be near playoff time.

As far as the NCC being a top 2 in the nation. I believe purple remains the color of royalty and you can only get yourself some of that in Salem.

On a more important note, what does everyone here think of the situation at PSU? There are a lot of opinions out there and the situation has become bigger than almost any story in NCAA athletic history?

You can get some of that royalty before Stagg- all it takes is a playoff victory against one of them.

As for Joe Pa- I will wait until all info is out. However, I will ask, how many people out there would directly call the police on a 20+ year friend?

Me

[emma17]

As for Joe Pa- I will wait until all info is out. However, I will ask, how many people out there would directly call the police on a 20+ year friend?

If there was evidence that he had raped a child, I wouldn't be able to get my cell phone out of my pocket fast enough to call the cops on my 20+ year friend.

When you say evidence, do you mean what the high charactered McQueary (the one who reportedly saw a child being raped and walked out of the room doing nothing) told Paterno?
Don't get me wrong, in no way do I excuse Paterno for not following up (if it turns out he did not).  However, from the limited information we all have, I see this as two actionable moments for Paterno.  The first is, upon hearing the story from McQueary, Paterno has to decide if HE should directly contact the police.  He did not, but he did contact administration.  I have no problem at all with his decision at this point.  The problem is the second actionable moment, and that is when he realizes no action has been taken by the administration.  Unless others have information that I haven't heard, this is the story that needs to be told.  What did he do ONCE he saw the administration did not take action?

Based only on the information that I've heard to this point, McQueary should have been the first one fired. 

[Gregory Sager]

I think they will eventually clean out the entire house. I am confused as to why Paterno was ousted, but McQueary is still on the coaching staff? That one doesn't add up to me.

Agreed,

It also bugs me that they fired JoePa by handing him an envelope which gave him a phone number to call to tell him that he was fired.

The method was odd, but the decision was sound. Paterno had to be fired, and fired immediately. Yesterday he publicly offered to retire after the season was over, but that was completely unacceptable. How would it have looked if he had been allowed to take a final victory lap, Big Ten title game and bowl game and all, while Sandusky's young victims continued to languish in a hell not of their own choosing, a hell which Paterno did not do what he should've done to try to prevent? Bad enough that the 10,000 Penn State students who took to the streets last night and overturned automobiles have complete moral myopia as regards Joe Paterno; at least the PSU board of trustees doesn't.

I was also unimpressed by the press conference last night and by Surma's explanations. It bothered me that they couldn't explain their process of deliberation which caused them to fire JoePa late last night as opposed to the afternoon or the day before.

Again, I'm less concerned with the hour-to-hour timing and the process of dismissal than I am with the big picture, which is that Paterno needed to go.

JoePa has been used as a bit of a scapegoat.

Scapegoat for whom? The AD to whom Paterno supposedly answered* is out of a job. The vice-president to whom the AD answered is also out of a job. And the president to whom they all answered is out of a job, too. The whole point of a scapegoat is that it allows someone else to avoid the blame. But none of Paterno's superiors have avoided anything. They've all met the same fate.

Obviously, it appears he missed the moral train on this one, but I am going to give it time to see all of the details first. This is really taking the focus away from Sandusky though.

True, but, more importantly, it's taking the focus away from the victims. The media is wringing its hands over the fate of the living-legend coach as well as the massive black eye suffered by a major state university, and is busily sifting through the detritus of what has turned out to be a huge cover-up ... and far too many people have taken their eyes off of what is the real story here, which is that a significant number of young men have been scarred for life by a horrific series of crimes.

I frequently disagree with Tribune columnist David Haugh's thoughts on, well, just about everything sports-related, but he absolutely nailed the truth of the matter in his "In the Wake of the News" column today.

* I say "supposedly answered" because I think we all know who called the shots in Happy Valley over the past 35 years. It's just a sidelight to what ought to be, as I said, a story about some nasty crimes that were perpetrated upon innocent children, but this is also one of those classic cases of how the tail wags the dog at a major D1 university as far as a big-time athletic program is concerned.

[USee]

How about what JoePa did 5 years later when Sandusky is still around with 10 year old boys? To me, Paterno's liability is MUCH greater when he let Sandusky continue to operate with his program as a home years later. I cannot imagine not know the outcome from 1 incident in 2002 when I saw the same guy with kids 5 years later. That's why he should have been fired in my view.

[CCIWFAN6]

I strongly agree with Cardinal on the PSU situation.  There is much more to come out and Penn State is going to be dealing with the reputational and legal fall-out of this case for many years to come.  Sad to see JoPa not go out in a honorable way, given the many good things he's done for his players, program and his university, but he surely missed the moral call on this one bigtime.

An important lesson, the university (the overall educational and institutional mission and interest) is always bigger than any athletic program or personage.  Seems the Penn State President and senior administrators in this case didn't adher to this truth for many years.  Now a heavy price to be paid by all involved, including sadly the otherwise good name of Penn State University. 

IWU70

I think they will eventually clean out the entire house. I am confused as to why Paterno was ousted, but McQueary is still on the coaching staff? That one doesn't add up to me. It also bugs me that they fired JoePa by handing him an envelope which gave him a phone number to call to tell him that he was fired. I was also unimpressed by the press conference last night and by Surma's explanations. It bothered me that they couldn't explain their process of deliberation which caused them to fire JoePa late last night as opposed to the afternoon or the day before. JoePa has been used as a bit of a scapegoat. Obviously, it appears he missed the moral train on this one, but I am going to give it time to see all of the details first. This is really taking the focus away from Sandusky though.

I would tell you to read the grand jury testimony and see what your opinions are after that.  It is disgusting what went on at that institution and the blatant disregard for the safety of children. 

The fact that these individuals merely lost their jobs and are not being escorted to jail, they should feel lucky.

[ncc58]

A nice article from the Naperville Sun on the non football side of the North Central football program................

http://napervillesun.suntimes.com/sports/8622606-419/faith-and-family-part-of-football-life-at-ncc.html

Very intersting article, looking forward to part two and more about the FCA side of the program. Can't say enough about FCA and the impact it has on the player's lives.

What happened to FCA at NCC? When I was a student/athlete, participation was pretty close to what it is now.

[robertgoulet]

I strongly agree with Cardinal on the PSU situation.  There is much more to come out and Penn State is going to be dealing with the reputational and legal fall-out of this case for many years to come.  Sad to see JoPa not go out in a honorable way, given the many good things he's done for his players, program and his university, but he surely missed the moral call on this one bigtime.

An important lesson, the university (the overall educational and institutional mission and interest) is always bigger than any athletic program or personage.  Seems the Penn State President and senior administrators in this case didn't adher to this truth for many years.  Now a heavy price to be paid by all involved, including sadly the otherwise good name of Penn State University. 

IWU70

I think they will eventually clean out the entire house. I am confused as to why Paterno was ousted, but McQueary is still on the coaching staff? That one doesn't add up to me. It also bugs me that they fired JoePa by handing him an envelope which gave him a phone number to call to tell him that he was fired. I was also unimpressed by the press conference last night and by Surma's explanations. It bothered me that they couldn't explain their process of deliberation which caused them to fire JoePa late last night as opposed to the afternoon or the day before. JoePa has been used as a bit of a scapegoat. Obviously, it appears he missed the moral train on this one, but I am going to give it time to see all of the details first. This is really taking the focus away from Sandusky though.

I would tell you to read the grand jury testimony and see what your opinions are after that. It is disgusting what went on at that institution and the blatant disregard for the safety of children. 

The fact that these individuals merely lost their jobs and are not being escorted to jail, they should feel lucky.

This.

I have yet to hear someone say anything other than at least "fire them all, send them to jail" (normally much worse than that) after reading the grand jury testimony. It's just sick. All involved need to be sent to jail (including JoePa).

[Gregory Sager]

As for Joe Pa- I will wait until all info is out. However, I will ask, how many people out there would directly call the police on a 20+ year friend?

If there was evidence that he had raped a child, I wouldn't be able to get my cell phone out of my pocket fast enough to call the cops on my 20+ year friend.

When you say evidence, do you mean what the high charactered McQueary (the one who reportedly saw a child being raped and walked out of the room doing nothing) told Paterno?

McQueary's character does not enter into the equation. If someone tells you that they have witnessed child molestation, you don't wait for someone else to contact the police. You contact the police yourself. This is a no-brainer. Let the police investigate the matter; it's what they're trained to do, and it's what they're paid to do. If the accusation turns out to be false, then the person who initiated the accusation -- which is not you, the person who tipped off the cops, but rather the person who claimed to be the eyewitness -- will pay the price for it.

Don't get me wrong, in no way do I excuse Paterno for not following up (if it turns out he did not).

Not only did Paterno not follow up, which is inexcusable, he allowed Sandusky to retain an office on campus and to have free rein of the athletic department and its facilities. Nor did he say a peep when Sandusky later moved his football camp for kids to another Penn State campus, PSU-Behrend. The one thing that was put off-limits to Sandusky by the PSU football program is telling: He was not allowed to bring kids into the Penn State athletic facilities anymore. That's pretty damning circumstantial evidence that Paterno and his associates knew that something was wrong with Sandusky, but that they simply didn't want to have him doing anything on their turf that could potentially compromise their positions.

However, from the limited information we all have, I see this as two actionable moments for Paterno.  The first is, upon hearing the story from McQueary, Paterno has to decide if HE should directly contact the police.  He did not, but he did contact administration.  I have no problem at all with his decision at this point.

I have an enormous problem with his decision at this point. First of all, he has been presented with information that a crime against a child has been committed ... and he did not alert the police. Second, this happened in his locker room, and was reported by one of his assistant coaches about one of his former assistants. How does this not affect him? How is this something that he can simply hand off to a higher-up and then consider, in true Pontius Pilate fashion, that he has washed his hands of the whole thing? Third, Sandusky was one of his oldest and closest friends and his right-hand man at his place of business. I find it exceedingly unlikely that Paterno and the other members of the PSU football staff had no inkling whatsoever of Sandusky's pedophilic behavior. Lastly, one of the things that makes child molestation so heinous a crime is the fact that, unlike homicide, it's usually neither an isolated incident nor an unpremeditated one. It's a crime committed by a predator who plans the means and method by which to ensnare his victim, and it's almost never a stand-alone crime. The fact that Sandusky has 40 indictment counts against him is hardly unusual; there are pedophiles who've been charged with hundreds of sex crimes. By not bringing the matter straight to the police, Paterno put more kids at risk.

The problem is the second actionable moment, and that is when he realizes no action has been taken by the administration.  Unless others have information that I haven't heard, this is the story that needs to be told.  What did he do ONCE he saw the administration did not take action?

Nothing, which makes it worse. But in effect, we're talking about a horse that's already left the barn as far as Paterno's moral culpability is concerned.

Based only on the information that I've heard to this point, McQueary should have been the first one fired.

I'll agree with that. But it doesn't let Paterno off the hook. His dismissal by the PSU board of trustees was the right thing to do.

[Schwami]

How about what JoePa did 5 years later when Sandusky is still around with 10 year old boys? To me, Paterno's liability is MUCH greater when he let Sandusky continue to operate with his program as a home years later. I cannot imagine not know the outcome from 1 incident in 2002 when I saw the same guy with kids 5 years later. That's why he should have been fired in my view.

One of the real questions is what JoePa knew in 1998.  It is inconceivable that his knowledge was limited to the one event in 2002.  I am posting a link to an April 2011 article that raises even more disturbing questions.  You can be sure that the civil litigation that is about to hit Penn State will be all over this.

http://www.timesonline.com/columnists/sports/mark_madden/madden-sandusky-a-state-secret/article_863d3c82-5e6f-11e0-9ae5-001a4bcf6878.html

[NCF]

A nice article from the Naperville Sun on the non football side of the North Central football program................

http://napervillesun.suntimes.com/sports/8622606-419/faith-and-family-part-of-football-life-at-ncc.html

Very intersting article, looking forward to part two and more about the FCA side of the program. Can't say enough about FCA and the impact it has on the player's lives.

What happened to FCA at NCC? When I was a student/athlete, participation was pretty close to what it is now.

The past few seasons the group has been small. This year there has been a "mini revival" of sorts. I think the highest attendance they have had at one meeting is 37 and the format has changed slightly. There are student leaders now (most coming from the recent habitat participants) so the small group feeling remains.

[Mr. Ypsi]

When I first saw reports of 'graduate assistant' witnessing the child rape, I pictured an intimidated 22-year-old who did what he could by reporting it to Paterno.  I have since learned that McQueary was 28, and from the pictures I've seen, he is HUGE for a former QB.  Since Sandusky was, what, 58 at the time, besides not immediately calling the cops himself, why didn't he put an immediate stop to the behavior?  How many later victims would have been spared if Sandusky had both been beaten up and arrested in 2002?

As far as prosecution, both McQueary and Paterno seem off the hook, since they did (minimally) what the law required.  But I suspect they are in for some MASSIVE civil suits.

[ncc58]

Penn State should not have had to fire Paterno. Paterno should have quit the minute the story broke. Didn't anyone in his circle of friends have the sense to advise him to get out.

He's the head coach. He selects his staff and his assistants are his employees. Paterno is responsible for everything that occurred in the program.

There was a suggestion on a news show last night that the Pennsylvania media (and University) have been sitting on this story all year. They waited until after Paterno broke the record for career wins until the story was released. In that case, the media is also morally decrepit.

They don't know if McQueary will coach from the field or press box this weekend. That only keeps his name in the news. I would think he would want to just disappear.

I only hope that no bowl invites Penn State. Playing in a bowl game only prolongs the story.