FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[NCF]

Penn State should not have had to fire Paterno. Paterno should have quit the minute the story broke. Didn't anyone in his circle of friends have the sense to advise him to get out.

He's the head coach. He selects his staff and his assistants are his employees. Paterno is responsible for everything that occurred in the program.

There was a suggestion on a news show last night that the Pennsylvania media (and University) have been sitting on this story all year. They waited until after Paterno broke the record for career wins until the story was released. In that case, the media is also morally decrepit.

They don't know if McQueary will coach from the field or press box this weekend. That only keeps his name in the news. I would think he would want to just disappear.

I only hope that no bowl invites Penn State. Playing in a bowl game only prolongs the story.

But it punishes the players who had nothing to do with the scandal, especially the seniors who will be playing their final home game this Saturday.

[Titan Q]

On IWU's Ryan Jenkins...

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-11-09/sports/ct-spt-1110-prep-college-catchup-20111109_1_norm-eash-illinois-wesleyan-augustana

[emma17]

Gregory Sager- I respect your opinion on the subject and your passion for protecting the kids, it is of course our main responsibility as a society. 

I don't agree with your reply where you state "McQueary's character does not enter into the equation. If someone tells you that they have witnessed child molestation, you don't wait for someone else to contact the police. You contact the police yourself..." 
First, IMO, McQueary literally, literally witnessed (for those that haven't read it, it's detailed online) an adult man having sex (or whatever it's called) with a 10 year old boy- and he did NOTHING TO STOP IT.  Sorry, if a 28 year old man saw my daughter being raped (God forbid) and did nothing, I'd castrate both the rapist and the witness.

Second, this is an emotional issue obviously- have you put yourself in Paterno's shoes at the moment he hears McQueary's story?  We all like to confidently say what we would have done if in someone else's shoes.  However, I try to walk in another man's shoes first.  He has been a coach, friend and fellow coach with Sandusky for decades.  I think it's at least somewhat understandable that he'd prefer the Administration make the call to the police rather than him. 

Now, from the point he notified administration and nothing was done about it, I'm really disappointed in Coach Paterno.  Listening to those that know him and played for him, he is a wonderful man that made a bad decision. 

[Mr. Ypsi]

Yeah, the more I read up on this case, the madder I get.  McQueary did not even report the rape to Paterno until the next day!  McQueary was 28 freakin' years old (not the perhaps somewhat intimidated 22-year-old I first envisioned when they talked of 'graduate assistant') and is a BIG guy.  Why he did nothing to stop the rape is utterly beyond me (and totally inexcusable).

I am not a violent person (partly because I am not a very big person and do not like pain , but also just my nature).  But I am 99% confident that I would have attacked Sandusky then and there.  (One of my proudest moments growing up was the only real fight I've ever had in my life.  A neighborhood bully was picking on some younger kids far from adult supervision.  Since I was the second biggest kid around, I took him on.  He beat the crap out of me, d'oh!, but he also never picked on me or my friends again.  For that one time I can echo the immortal words of Sparky Anderson: Pain don't hurt! )

If McQueary continues to coach, PSU is dead to me.

[devildog29]

From everything I've read or heard in the sports radio world, there's two main theories as to why McQueary is still coaching.  I'm not saying I necessarily believe either of these, this is just what the wonks are saying.  First theory is the whistleblower law; that he has some kind of protected status for being the initial whistleblower.  This seems pretty unlikely though.  Second theory, is he is the key witness to the event, and they want to make sure he continues to cooperate in the investigation.  Again, not sure how reasonable this is either, being as he did testify to the grand jury already.  I guess there's a fear he could clam up and start pleading the fifth.  Both of these theories have serious holes, but that's what the talking heads are reporting.  Most likely, we still haven't heard everything to this story. 

[emma17]

Yeah, the more I read up on this case, the madder I get.  McQueary did not even report the rape to Paterno until the next day!  McQueary was 28 freakin' years old (not the perhaps somewhat intimidated 22-year-old I first envisioned when they talked of 'graduate assistant') and is a BIG guy.  Why he did nothing to stop the rape is utterly beyond me (and totally inexcusable).

I am not a violent person (partly because I am not a very big person and do not like pain , but also just my nature).  But I am 99% confident that I would have attacked Sandusky then and there.  (One of my proudest moments growing up was the only real fight I've ever had in my life.  A neighborhood bully was picking on some younger kids far from adult supervision.  Since I was the second biggest kid around, I took him on.  He beat the crap out of me, d'oh!, but he also never picked on me or my friends again.   For that one time I can echo the immortal words of Sparky Anderson: Pain don't hurt! )

If McQueary continues to coach, PSU is dead to me.

Mr. Ypsi, your story perfectly defines what it means to be tough. 

[Gregory Sager]

Gregory Sager- I respect your opinion on the subject and your passion for protecting the kids, it is of course our main responsibility as a society. 

I don't agree with your reply where you state "McQueary's character does not enter into the equation. If someone tells you that they have witnessed child molestation, you don't wait for someone else to contact the police. You contact the police yourself..." 
First, IMO, McQueary literally, literally witnessed (for those that haven't read it, it's detailed online) an adult man having sex (or whatever it's called) with a 10 year old boy- and he did NOTHING TO STOP IT.  Sorry, if a 28 year old man saw my daughter being raped (God forbid) and did nothing, I'd castrate both the rapist and the witness.

Why should this ameliorate Paterno's moral lapse? Yes, McQueary is as culpable as all-get-out. I've already said that in my last reply to you. McQueary should've been fired immediately, and the fact that he's still walking around as a free man, let alone as a Penn State coach, is probably only because, as devildog29 alluded, he has some sort of leverage over both the legal authorities and the Penn State administration. But McQueary's guilt does not let Paterno off the hook at all. Wrongdoing is not a zero-sum game. There's plenty of moral failure to go around in this case.

Second, this is an emotional issue obviously- have you put yourself in Paterno's shoes at the moment he hears McQueary's story?

No. You know whose shoes I put myself in? The kid's shoes. His shoes are the only ones that count here.

We all like to confidently say what we would have done if in someone else's shoes.  However, I try to walk in another man's shoes first.  He has been a coach, friend and fellow coach with McQueary for decades.  I think it's at least somewhat understandable that he'd prefer the Administration make the call to the police rather than him.

With all due respect, emma17, that's a load of crap. This is not about Joe Paterno catching Jerry Sandusky stepping out on his wife with another woman, or catching him taking an instructor aside and slipping him some booster money in order to get him to give the starting left defensive end a passing grade in Basket-Weaving 101. This is about Joe Paterno being confronted with an eyewitness's evidence that Jerry Sandusky sodomized a ten-year-old boy in the Penn State football locker room. This is beyond the pale. What Sandusky is accused of doing -- what Paterno was confronted with -- is an unspeakably hideous major felony, one that can destroy a kid's entire life. There is no way -- no way at all -- that you give a guy a pass for this by shunting off the responsibility for blowing the whistle on him to somebody else. You either do the right thing and call the cops, or you live with your moral failure for not doing so, and it seems to me in that his final statement last night Paterno -- a man who does at least appear to have some scintilla of a moral compass -- was admitting his moral failure by saying, "It is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more." Whether he's saying that because he actually believes it, or because he knows that this sort of contrition is what people want to hear from him right now, those are not the words of a man confident in and at peace with his decision to move the responsibility for the call to the cops upward through the administrative chain of command.

[emma17]

GS-It's hardly "with all due respect" to tell me my opinion is a load of crap. 
I agree entirely that Paterno was wrong in not following up.  I simply don't agree it's as black and white as you do in that he should have called the police upon hearing McQueary's story.

btw, I did edit my post as I mistakenly said Paterno had been with McQueary all those years, I meant Sandusky. 

[Schwami]

Not only did McQueary wait until the next day (a Saturday) to report what he saw to Paterno, but Paterno waited yet another day (Sunday) before reporting the incident up the ladder to Curley.  No profiles in courage here.  Disgusting.

[Gregory Sager]

GS-It's hardly "with all due respect" to tell me my opinion is a load of crap.

The due respect's for you. The load of crap's for your opinion.

I agree entirely that Paterno was wrong in not following up.  I simply don't agree it's as black and white as you do in that he should have called the police upon hearing McQueary's story.

Yes, it's pretty obvious that we are worlds apart on that.

Not only did McQueary wait until the next day (a Saturday) to report what he saw to Paterno, but Paterno waited yet another day (Sunday) before reporting the incident up the ladder to Curley.  No profiles in courage here.  Disgusting.

One of the scary things about this case is the fact that both McQueary and Paterno each waited a day to tell the next person up the ladder. Someone caught in flagrante delicto like that, you figure there's some good odds there that he's going to take it on the lam because he figures that the cops will be on him immediately. That should be one of the things that motivates you to pick up the phone and call the police.

[BoBo]

GS-It's hardly "with all due respect" to tell me my opinion is a load of crap.

The due respect's for you. The load of crap's for your opinion.

I agree entirely that Paterno was wrong in not following up.  I simply don't agree it's as black and white as you do in that he should have called the police upon hearing McQueary's story.

Yes, it's pretty obvious that we are worlds apart on that.

Not only did McQueary wait until the next day (a Saturday) to report what he saw to Paterno, but Paterno waited yet another day (Sunday) before reporting the incident up the ladder to Curley.  No profiles in courage here.  Disgusting.

One of the scary things about this case is the fact that both McQueary and Paterno each waited a day to tell the next person up the ladder. Someone caught in flagrante delicto like that, you figure there's some good odds there that he's going to take it on the lam because he figures that the cops will be on him immediately. That should be one of the things that motivates you to pick up the phone and call the police.

Something that no one has addressed here (I believe) is the case of McQueary's father. If Paterno was expected to call the police (or made sure that the authorities were contacted with the allegation) upon hearing the eye witness account from his GA, don't you feel that McQueary's father should've been the first one to do that (after McQueary himself)?  According to the GJ report, McQueary went to his father first and reported what he saw. His father told his son to report it to Paterno...which he did following the lapse of several hours the morning after he witnessed the shower scene? IMO, McQueary's father was the first link in the chain to fail to do what he should of done. How did anybody in the McQueary household sleep that night knowing what they knew? And doing nothing about it!!  There are so many monumental problems (questions?) with this case, human being failures and legal failures, that, unfortunately for the families suffering from the abuse, sorting things out is going to take some time.

[Gregory Sager]

Yep, McQuary's dad is culpable as well. Everyone who did not step up and do the right thing by immediately calling the police is culpable.

[sac]

Not to butt in.......but none of us really know what exactly McQuerry told Joe Paterno and the report isn't real clear either.  I think that is the most important part.

devils advocate I know but until McQuerry speaks (or rather testifies) we can't really know exactly what went down in those offices other that what has been in grand jury report.

As a matter of fact, one of the reasons Mr. Curley and Mr. Schultz were arraigned on criminal charges is because their answers to questions did not match McQuerry's.  They seemed to know more than Paterno was told and they were really the ones who should have contacted police.  (after reading the report, how on Earth Spanier could make the dumb comment about standing behind those two guys 100% is beyond me)

The whole report is here, it will make you disgusted, Victim #2 deals with McQuerry
http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/Presentment.pdf



As for the timing, its odd, but it was released during Penn State's bye week.  I'm sure PSU expected some fall out from this but the grand jury report was probably much more damaging than anyone could have anticipated.  It turned into a category 5 hurricane faster than anything I can recall.

I'm not familiar with how grand jury reports are released but I would assume they are usually released when they are finished.  I don't know


The Second Mile Charity is a pretty big deal, some of its directors are very famous ex-athletes and business people.  They have been very quiet to this point.

[Gregory Sager]

As a matter of fact, one of the reasons Mr. Curley and Mr. Schultz were arraigned on criminal charges is because their answers to questions did not match McQuerry's.  They seemed to know more than Paterno was told and they were really the ones who should have contacted police.

Sorry, sac, but you're just plain wrong about that. Anyone who has knowledge of a sexual assault should contact police -- especially when the victim is a child (i.e., someone who is not at personal liberty and who is highly unlikely to report the crime him- or herself).

[Mr. Ypsi]

As a matter of fact, one of the reasons Mr. Curley and Mr. Schultz were arraigned on criminal charges is because their answers to questions did not match McQuerry's.  They seemed to know more than Paterno was told and they were really the ones who should have contacted police.

Sorry, sac, but you're just plain wrong about that. Anyone who has knowledge of a sexual assault should contact police -- especially when the victim is a child (i.e., someone who is not at personal liberty and who is highly unlikely to report the crime him- or herself).

Basically, everyone here is at fault.

McQueary should have called the police (right after he beat the s**t out of Sandusky - how he could just witness the rape of a ten year old child by a 58 year old man is beyond my comprehension); instead he waited until the next day to even report to Paterno.

Paterno should have immediately called the police; instead he waited ANOTHER day before reporting to his 'superior' (ha, ha, ha).

All of JoePa's 'superiors' have now been dismissed (as has he); in 2002 NO ONE ever contacted the police.  (I'm not even a lawyer, but I'd bet I could get $4 million per defendant for the later victims from each of the 5-10 people who didn't stop Sandusky in 2002. )

How can McQueary still be employed by PSU?

In order of guilt, I would say:

Sandusky

[the coverup brouhaha has tended to give him almost a pass]

[nope, it's still Sandusky]

[gettin' close to witnesses who did nothing]

McQueary (and I'd like to know a lot more about those janitors in 1998 who said nothing)
Paterno
Curley
everyone else who knew