FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Mugsy]

Mugsy gets my vote for CCIW SPOY, which of course stands for Sagerian Post of the Year.  Holy dissertation Batman!

Yeah... I guess I kinda got carried away.   

There was a lot of ground to cover in Ghost's post and I didn't want to throw out my opinion without something behind it to support my view.

Sorry all.  But I did include a "disclaimer" that was notarized and approved by WashedupCard.   

[oldnuthin]

Mugsy gets my vote for CCIW SPOY, which of course stands for Sagerian Post of the Year.  Holy dissertation Batman!

Yeah... I guess I kinda got carried away.   

There was a lot of ground to cover in Ghost's post and I didn't want to throw out my opinion without something behind it to support my view.

Sorry all.  But I did include a "disclaimer" that was notarized and approved by WashedupCard.   

As an impartial observer i saw them both and I was blown away with some the passes Meador thru. He dropped a 50 yd bomb in the receivers hands between 2 Millikin defenders on one play and did the same for about the same distance just over a single defender on another. it was a treat tot watch. Williams great, Meador better.

[Pat Coleman]

Also, this is a nice time to mention that the first 2 pictures you see on D3football are of Ryan Jenkins (though the picture is from 09) and the NCC defense. Defense wins championships?

That's what IWU had to send. I know he didn't play last year so I guess there wasn't anything suitable from 2011?

[Langhorst_Ghost]

Glad to have sparked some lively, well-informed conversation on the board!

Mugsy - your rebuttal is well-received and i do appreciate you taking the time to support your angle and give my original post a respectful and appropriate cross-examination.  Well done and very intelligent approach.  And thanks to New Tradition for the kind words.

To counter, i would offer these points...

One other stat to consider before digging into the points made:
Meador accounted for 57% of Wheaton's scoring (19 TD passes, 2 TD runs)
Williams accounted for 26% of Elmhurt's scoring (8 TD's rushing, 1 TD receiving)

The issue of % of a team's offense/scoring as a method of quantifying the value an individual's accomplishment is one that can be spun to support either side of the argument, but in practice, really needs to judged in context.  By this measure, i would consider Matt Holmes of Millikin to be a more qualified candidate...good player, means a heckuva lot to his team, but not the OPOY on which i think we can agree.  Quarterbacks have the ball in their hand on every play from scrimmage and will generally finish with more opportunities than RBs accumulate carries in modern offenses - and across the board, at every level, will contribute to the majority of scoring plays more often than not.

Since Meador didn't "share the load" means his stats don't carry as much weight or mean as much?

Yes...my point exactly.  And at all levels, this rationale has always held up.  At the D1 level, Texas Tech quarterbacks have never been considered realistic Heisman contenders because of the inflated system.  Throwing the ball all over the yard will inevitably saturate your stats.  To achieve record-setting numbers in an offense that practices balance is, too me, more impressive than piling up stats in a one-dimensional game plan.

Since Wheaton was so inept at running the ball, that means opposing defenses could key/focus on stopping Meador.  Being able to pass for 300 yards per game when teams knew Wheaton had to pass makes his success even more amazing.  65% completions while defensive game plans were geared to stop the pass.

(A balanced attack would "seem" to make it even more difficult for a defense to focus on stopping Williams only - IMO.)

In theory, this point seems logical, but schematically, there's no way to realistically "key" on a QB.  In terms of X's and O's, there are only so many options on defense.  Taking away a WR or TE - you have choices (rolled coverage, bracket coverage, press coverage).  Limiting the run game (rolling down 8 defenders in the box, DLine gap stunts, LB keys) can be done within a game plan and with regular personnel (in fact Scottie ran through 8 man boxes often).  In the pass game - pressure vs. coverage, 4 down vs. 3 down, regular personnel vs. nickel package...any way you decide to approach a game plan defensively, you must remain sound in terms of gap control and run fits.  You can substitute based on offensive personnel packages on the field, down and distance tendencies, formation - but you simply cannot commit to coverage exclusively at the expense of playing a sound scheme.  Scrap your philosophy and roll nickel or dime all day...i would think your typical 2nd or 3rd team defensive back at this level is probably not an every-down type of player.  Either way, operating a game plan that is "geared to stop the pass" sounds like a perfectly reasonable plan of action, but in practice, pass-happy teams can still pass their way through pass-mindful defenses (see Carthage of 2009).

If one were to use that same argument, then I'd say that Nick Kukuc of North Central is even more deserving of the OPOY award than Williams.   

This is actually a really good point.  But i would think it tough to argue that if you removed Kucoc from the Cardinal offense, NCC wouldn't still be as potent an offense as they are.  No way that could be said for Williams or Meador - both were the most impactful contributors on their respective units.  Stats DO matter to some extent, but always in context.

All this being said - Meador had one heckuva year, no doubt about it (one of the 10 best at the position in CCIW history), but Scottie had a better year comparatively and historically.  It was mentioned in another post that Meador was the best player on team that beat EC and finished higher in the standings, thus worthy.  I suppose this logic would then disqualify any CCIW players in the last half decade not taking college credits in Naperville from consideration.

Good back and forth, Mugsy.  Agree to disagree i am sure.  Glad to have some healthy, respectful banter.

[79jaybird]

Williams vs. Meador-  my 2 cents,  I think I would have given the vote to Meador also.  Dont' get me wrong, Scotty is a great rusher and a great offensive tool, however I would have voted for Meador. 

Off subject-  Prior to the season there were some newbie Elmhurst fans (seemed to be folks of the players) who thought and had high hopes that EC was going to make some noise this year.  I refrained at the time from jumping on the bandwagon or (as USee would say) start drinking the blue kool-aid again,  for the simple reason that I didn't think EC was a top tier team.  I still don't think they are a 1-3 team yet.  They are missing some key components (Hey I can sell you some electrical ones if you need  ) but in all seriousness, there are still some gaps that are in the system. 

[Mugsy]

Good back and forth, Mugsy.  Agree to disagree i am sure.  Glad to have some healthy, respectful banter.

Agreed. 

Now I just need to figure out how to debate in a less verbose way.   

[iwu70]

Mugsy clearly wins the Golden Batman award for this board.

Good luck to NCC and IWU tomorrow in their playoff games.  I'm hoping my Titans are able to slow down and ground Air Monmouth.  We'll see if D wins championships for sure.

Excellent work, Mugsy!

IWU70 

[HoosierRedMan]

I just want to wish good luck to our 2 playoff teams; NCC and IW.

Make all of the CCIW fans pround.

[Mugsy]

North Central vs. Dubuque game capsule

Records:
   North Central:  9-1
   Dubuque:        9-1

Statistical Category	North Central	Dubuque	Comment
Offense Scoring	43.7	44.4
Defense Scoring	10.9	21.6
Off Pass Completion %	53.5	74.5
Off Pass YPG	187.6	330.1
Off Pass TD's	19	44
Off INT's	4	7
Def Pass Completion %	47.3	55.0
Def Pass YPG	145.9	207.4
Pass TD's Allowed	5	10
Def INT's	21	13
Kick Return Ave	19.6	17.5
Punt Return Ave	13.9	7.5
Punting	38.3	36.4	NCC 21, Dub 17
Off Rush YPG	276.4	177.8
Off Yards Per Carry	6.7	4.9
Off Rush TD's	29	17
Def Rush YPG	108.5	146.2
Def Yards Per Carry	3.1	3.7
Def Rush TD's Allowed	8	19
Total Offense	464.0	507.9
Total Defense	254.4	353.6
Sacks By	28	21
Sacks Allowed	12	13	NCC: 228 pass attempts, Dub: 329
1st Downs	212	255
1st Downs Allowed	149	189
Penalty YPG	71.3	48.5
Red Zone Offense	77.0	84.0	NCC 32 TDs, 8 FG's : Dub 41 TDs, 2 FG's
Red Zone Defense	67.0	77.0
Off 3rd Down Conv %	35.0	56.0
Opp 3rd Down Conv %	25.0	37.0
Field Goals	12 of 18	2 of 4
PAT's	53 of 57	50 of 59
Time of Pos	29:52	31:22

Notable Players:
RUSHING           Team  G  Att  Yds Avg TD Long Yds/G
-----------------------------------------------------------
J. Spaulding        Dub  10 195 1260  6.5 13   57   126.0
Kyle Acker          Dub  10  93   432  4.6   3   26    43.2
Kukuc, Nick        NCC  10 109   957  8.8   8   69    95.7
Tassio, Jordan     NCC 10 120   682  5.7   6   80    68.2
Boettcher, Mike   NCC 10   61   477  7.8   6   48    47.7
Crackel, Brad      NCC   8   35   244  7.0   1   55    30.5
Kent, Ryan         NCC   4   25   233  9.3   4   75    58.2

QB Comparison:
PASSING AVG/GAME   Team G Cmp  Att Int Pct.  Yds    TD  Avg/G
-------------------------------------------------------------
Wyatt Hanus          Dub 10  239  321  7  74.5 3229   42  322.9
Dicken, Tyler         NCC 10   76  147  2  51.7 1294   10  129.4
Crackel, Brad         NCC   8   41   73  2  56.2   469     6   58.6
Tassio, Jordan         NCC 10     5     6  0  83.3   113     3   11.3


Top Receivers:
RECEIVE YDS/GAME   Team  G  Rec Yds    Avg/C TD Long Yds/G
------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Zweifel         Dub   10 127  1780   14.0  24   74   178.0
Demacus Fleming       Dub   10   59   959   16.3    8   67    95.9
Miles Hookstead         Dub   10   27   294   10.9    5   27    29.4
Fiedorowicz, Kyle       NCC    9   22    339   15.4   7   49    37.7
Antonacci, Joe          NCC   10   17   172   10.1   1   21     17.2
Hicks, Nick                NCC     9   13   189   14.5   0   28     21.0
Haan, Alex                NCC     9   11   185   16.8   5   86     20.6
Slezak, Nick              NCC     8   10   111   11.1   0   19     13.9
Kabba, Bai                NCC     6     9   304   33.8   3   68    50.7
Tassio, Jordan           NCC    10    9   100   11.1   0   21     10.0
Stolzenburg, Jeff        NCC     9     8   190   23.8   1   40     21.1
Rezac, Ryne              NCC    10    8    101   12.6   0  18     10.1

[Stagg Again!!]

Mugsy, thank you for posting the NCC and UofD statistics.  Let me add one more -- NCC SOS ranking #28 and UofD SOS ranking #189.  NCC's NCAA-calculated SOS does not, of course, cover the team's win over Bethel (TN) which is 8-2 and ranked #13 in NAIA.  Perhaps SOS may speak to some of the differences in the statistics for the two teams?!

[Mugsy]

IWU vs. Monmouth game capsule

Records:
   IWU:           9-1
   Monmouth:   9-1

Statistical Category	Illinois Wesleyan	Monmouth	Comment
Offense Scoring	24.5	49.3
Defense Scoring	11.3	21.8
Off Pass Completion %	63.3	72.9
Off Pass YPG	231.8	342.2
Off Pass TD's	16	35
Off INT's	11	7
Def Pass Completion %	51.0	58.1
Def Pass YPG	161.1	225.1
Pass TD's Allowed	4	12
Def INT's	8	16
Kick Return Ave	19.6	22.0
Punt Return Ave	9.6	9.2
Punting	37.5	39.8	IWU 42, Dub 20
Off Rush YPG	112.4	214.5
Off Yards Per Carry	3.2	5.6
Off Rush TD's	17	31
Def Rush YPG	123.4	141.8
Def Yards Per Carry	3.3	3.3
Def Rush TD's Allowed	7	18
Total Offense	344.2	556.7
Total Defense	284.5	366.9
Sacks By	18	24
Sacks Allowed	14	13	IWU: 294 pass attempts, Mon: 328
1st Downs	196	258
1st Downs Allowed	164	209
Penalty YPG	52.4	80.3
Red Zone Offense	69.0	83.0	IWU 26 TDs, 3 FG's : Mon 43 TDs, 6 FG's
Red Zone Defense	68.0	68.0
Off 3rd Down Conv %	46.0	60.0
Opp 3rd Down Conv %	28.0	38.0
Field Goals	3 of 9	6 of 12
PAT's	30 of 33	57 of 61
Time of Pos	29:44	25:50

Notable Players:
RUSHING                   Team   GP  Att    Net  Avg  TD  Long    Avg/G
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Trey Yocum                Mon    10  181  1320   7.3  20   73     132.0
Nick Law                    Mon    10   57    312    5.5   5   22       31.2
James Lauber              Mon      8   38    223   5.9   1    23      27.9
Stefan Flynn               Mon    10   36     130   3.6   1   14       13.0
Michael Buehne            Mon     6   13     109   8.4   2   47       18.2
Brik Wedekind              Mon    10   20      98    4.9  2   17         9.8
Blossom, Cameron         IWU     9  113    337    3.0  3   16        37.4
Stinde, T.J.                  IWU     3   55    254    4.6  2    44        84.7
Conley, Sean                IWU    10   64    242   3.8   7    15        24.2
Allen, Cameron              IWU    10   30    153   5.1   0    42        15.3


QB Comparison:
PASSING              Team   GP   Cmp-Att-Int   Pct    Yds   TD  Lng   Avg/G
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alex Tanney           Mon     10    230-315-7    73.0  3304  35  73    330.4
Gallik, Rob              IWU     10    182-288-11  63.2  2248  15  82    224.8


Top Receivers:
RECEIVING             Team     GP  No.   Yds   Avg   TD  Long Avg/G
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Blodgett           Mon     10  102  1554  15.2   16   73    155.4
Michael Davis           Mon     10    28   379   13.5    4   65      37.9
Spencer Brown         Mon     10    27   406   15.0    4   60      40.6
Austin Peterson        Mon     10    24   420   17.5    5   54      42.0
David Milroy             Mon     10    15   114     7.6    1   23      11.4
Nick Law                  Mon    10    11   216    19.6    2   59      21.6
Driver, Joey              IWU    10     39  525    13.5    6   62      52.5
Musso, Joe               IWU     10    33  390    11.8    0   49      39.0
Musselman, Tate       IWU      8     23  380    16.5    6   82      47.5
Burnett, Dayton        IWU      9     17  194    11.4    0   32      21.6
Sloboda, Mike           IWU      9     16  199    12.4    1   27      22.1
Conley, Sean            IWU     10    16  125      7.8    1   14      12.5
Carroll, Parker           IWU     10    12  193     16.1    2   43      19.3
Robinson, Brett         IWU       8    12  114      9.5    0    23      14.2

[Stagg Again!!]

I would pay to see Dubuque v. Monmouth.  Can you imagine the records that would be set in that game?  It is unfortunate that the NCAA didn't grant us all the opportunity to see how that would play out.

[scottie]

What round would they end up seeing each other??   

But, seriously, the DIII experts-in-chief have the MC/IWU as among the closest pick 'ems tomorrow.  I think it's a toss up.  Great D vs. Great O. IF the Monmouth offense goes, um, "off", do the Titans have enough fire power to hang with them? Mugsy's numbers would indicate that they would really be stretching any previous output.  Looking forward to it!

[Mr. Ypsi]

What round would they end up seeing each other??   

They would not meet until the Stagg Bowl.  Seems a tad unlikely, but at least it wouldn't be UMU/UWW, part 7!

[Mr. Ypsi]

But, seriously, the DIII experts-in-chief have the MC/IWU as among the closest pick 'ems tomorrow.  I think it's a toss up.  Great D vs. Great O. IF the Monmouth offense goes, um, "off", do the Titans have enough fire power to hang with them? Mugsy's numbers would indicate that they would really be stretching any previous output.  Looking forward to it!

I think the Titan defense will shut down (or at least slow down) Tanney, but super QBs on what otherwise are probably weaker teams scare the heck out of me - I well remember what Chad Rupp did to NCC in 2008 (though take comfort that Wheaton apparently learned enough from it to beat Rupp and Franklin later the same tourney).