FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[USee]

Last year North Central was a 65% Run 35% pass team. In their biggest games they ran it closer to 70% of the time (Wheaton, IWU, Wabash). Yesterday they were 56% run 44% pass. Their QB, who had not played a varsity game in over 20 months, had 4 of the 6 turnovers which led directly to 14 of UWL's points. Obviously there is much more to the story but I am very surprised they chose to pass the ball over 30 times with those running backs.

[AndOne]

Last year North Central was a 65% Run 35% pass team. In their biggest games they ran it closer to 70% of the time (Wheaton, IWU, Wabash). Yesterday they were 56% run 44% pass. Their QB, who had not played a varsity game in over 20 months, had 4 of the 6 turnovers which led directly to 14 of UWL's points. Obviously there is much more to the story but I am very surprised they chose to pass the ball over 30 times with those running backs.

Of course on 2 of the occasions on which they did run, the results were fumbles at the UWL 18 and 7 yard lines.

[NCF]

IMHO it looked like they were trying some things out,but they should have pounded the ball. The two fumbles at the 7 and 18 yard lines were killers. Both of those drives should have ended up in scores. Bottom line-I've not seen the O so intent on imploding in the four years I've followed the team. Still an outstanding day for the D!

[wally_wabash]

What role, if any, did Lacrosse play in the outcome of this game?  All I'm reading is that North Central singularly lost here without any real mention of, you know, the team trying to take ball away from the Cardinals and keep them from scoring. That seems relevant.

[USee]

I watched the highlights on the NCC website.

On UWL's first TD they blitzed, 4 from the blind side and NCC did not pick it up. Stanek was his by the  defensive end ( the Tackle slid inside to pick up a blitzing LB) and fumbled. UWL picked it up and scored. On the pick 6, Stanek made a bad throw. The corner was able to step in front of the throw and  race untouched for the TD. The two fumbles by the RB's were both forced by UWL. UWL clearly deserved to win as they didn't make any mistakes on offense (they didn't make any plays either) and either forced/benefited from NCC's offensive miscues.

UWL's offense was bad. they were against a defense that was good.
NCC's offense was much more productive than UWL's. The game came down to turnovers. Who to blame/credit??

Fumble by Stanek for TD-pressure confused Cardinals: credit UWL
Pick 6: bad throw out of shotgun with no pressure vs a zone: Blame NCC
Fumble by Tassio going in: poor exchange between he and Stanek, no UWL pressure: blame NCC
Fumble by Kukoc going in: Hit by UWL: credit UWL
Pick off Stanek w 2 minutes to go: a little pressure but poorly thrown and tipped: Neutral
Pick at end off Stanek: pressure by UWL results in bad throw, off lineman and INT: credit UWL

Credit UWL for mistake free offense and opportunistic defense. They are clearly a good team and deserve credit for the win. 3 of the 6 turnovers were plays made by UWL. The other 3 were on the QB.

[NCF]

What role, if any, did Lacrosse play in the outcome of this game?  All I'm reading is that North Central singularly lost here without any real mention of, you know, the team trying to take ball away from the Cardinals and keep them from scoring. That seems relevant.

That's pretty much what happened IMHO. NC should have, but didn't come out with the W.

[Tailgater]

Sept. 1 Carthage vs. Adrian Game Notes:  On a warm, humid afternoon in southern Michigan, the Carthage College football team (1-0, 0-0 College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin) opened its 2012 season on Saturday, Sept. 1 with a 20-17 upset of No. 38 Adrian College (0-1) at Adrian's Multisport Performance Stadium in Adrian, Mich.  A late field goal by the Red Men's Brett Bukari (Jr., Bloomfield Hills, Mich./Beverly Hills-Detroit Day) broke a 17-17 tie.



Carthage struck first on a 12-yard quarterback sneak by A.J. Simoncelli (Fr., Downers Grove, Ill./South) at 12:16 first period.  Brett Bukari's point-after was good, and the Red Men led, 7-0,.  A 36-yard pass play from Simoncelli to Nick Gremley (Sr., Niles, Ill./West) set up that score.  A 23-yard fumble recovery for a touchdown by free safety Alex Vitkauskas (Sr., Tinley Park, Ill./Chicago-St. Rita) gave Carthage a 14-0 lead at 2:39.



Adrian missed on a 25-yard field-goal attempt by Dustin Salliotte at 14:12 second period, but the Bulldogs came right back.  A 43-yard pass from quarterback Aaron Tenney to Justin Hemm set up a two-yard touchdown carry by Damon Brown at 9:57.  Salliotte's kick was good, and the score was 14-7.  Carthage's Bukari missed a 45-yard field-goal attempt at 5:39 and a 36-yarder with 51 seconds remaining in the half.  Adrian kicker Ben Klaver just missed a 50-yard field-goal attempt as time ran out in the half.



Carthage upped its lead to 17-7 at 7:29 third period on a 37-yard field goal by Bukari.  Salliotte connected on a 35-yard field goal with 19 seconds to play in the third period, shaving the Red Men's lead to 17-10.  A 37-yard pass from Tenney to Hemm midway through the fourth period set the Bulldogs' game-tying touchdown.  Tenney scored on a fourth-and-inches at 8:29, and Salliotte's point-after was good for a 17-17 tie.



With Adrian on the Carthage 33-yard line, Red Men cornerback Aaron Morris was whistled for pass interference, giving the Bulldogs a first down at the 18-yard line.  Adrian's drive stalled out, and Ben Klaver's 41-yard field goal attempt was blocked by Nick Dorau.



The Red Men took over on their own 22-yard line.  A 36-yard screen pass from Simoncelli to Reggie Miller put Carthage on the Adrian 15-yard line.  With the Red Men going for the touchdown on fourth-and-one at the five-yard line, the Bulldogs were called for offside, giving Carthage a first-and-goal at the three-yard line.  With fourth-and-goal on the five and 20 seconds remaining, Bukari connected on a 22-yard field goal for the winning, 20-17 margin.  "On the last drive," said Carthage coach Tim Rucks, "we started to work the clock.  We didn't want to score too quickly and give them a chance to march down the field.  We told the offensive line that we were going run on that last series of plays, and they got it done. That last drive was just a setup for Brett Bukari's field goal.  We wanted the ball in the middle of the field, and we had confidence in Brett Bukari, even though he missed two field goals earlier."



Carthage collected 287 total offensive yards, 116 rushing and 171 passing while Adrian collected 404 yards, just 81 on the ground and 323 in the air.  Carthage quarterback A.J. Simoncelli had a fine freshman debut, completing 15-of-25 passes for 171 yards while rushing for 14 yards.  Reggie Miller ran for 47 yards on 13 carries., and Nick Gremley caught six passes for 67 yards.   Brett Bukari connected on two-of-four field-goal attempts.  Bulldogs quarterback Aaron Tenney completed 22-of-34 passes for 323 yards, with Justin Hemm catching nine of those for 169 yards.  Carthage defensive tackle Nick Dorau (Sr., Kenosha, Wis./Bradford) had two sacks, as did defensive ends Mike Merucci (Sr., Kenosha, Wis./Bradford) and Tyler O'Brien (Sr., Cary, Ill./Cary-Grove).



"It was a hard-fought win," said Rucks, "and I honestly didn't know where it was headed at the end.  When we needed it, we found it.  We had a great first series to open the game, and then we had a good one to finish the game.  Everything in between, we'll work on next week.  The kids found a way to win, and I'm excited for them  Adrian is a good team and picked to win their league, so this was a good win.  Adrian didn't pressure us all that much.  Our pass protection was good, better than I thought it would be.  A.J. Simoncelli did a lot nice little things that don't show up in the stats.  He is a very composed individual, and he will grow a lot from this game.  His potential is unlimited.  He never got rattled or shook.  I think we have the best defensive line in the league—they're pretty good.  It's the strength of our team right now."

[Titan Q]

In the bigger picture, North Central has hurt itself in two significant ways...

1) The Cards have probably taken themselves out of any Pool C bid consideration (should they fail to win the CCIW's AQ and need a Pool C), and

2) If NCC rights the ship and wins the league again (which I assume they are still the favorite to do), this loss will hurt their seeding, causing them a tougher road...like having to go on the road to Wabash last year in Round 2.

Sometimes it's hard to factor in the November implications of games here in early-September, but in-region losses in the non-conference are huge.

It's a surprising position for the #6 team in the country to be in after hosting a team in the opener that was 3-7 overall/2-5 WIAC last year, and picked to finish 6th in the WIAC this year.

[USee]

Q, you bring up the inevitable question of scheduling. The bottom line is the system simply does not encourage or reward tough scheduling. NCC cannot lose another game in a tough CCIW or they risk not getting to the playoffs. UWL is going to be a good team this year, but this is a game NCC needed to win. If you look at Wheaton and IWU, they have been able to schedule teams that are "good enough" to prepare them for the CCIW without ruining their playoff hopes. This will be the 5th time in the last 7 years NCC has had a non-conference loss.  Those losses have only kept them out of the playoffs 1x but has affected their seeding every year.

We all want to see the best teams play each other but the system tells these coaches not to do it.

[NCF]

Q, you bring up the inevitable question of scheduling. The bottom line is the system simply does not encourage or reward tough scheduling. NCC cannot lose another game in a tough CCIW or they risk not getting to the playoffs. UWL is going to be a good team this year, but this is a game NCC needed to win. If you look at Wheaton and IWU, they have been able to schedule teams that are "good enough" to prepare them for the CCIW without ruining their playoff hopes. This will be the 5th time in the last 7 years NCC has had a non-conference loss.  Those losses have only kept them out of the playoffs 1x but has affected their seeding every year.

We all want to see the best teams play each other but the system tells these coaches not to do it.

1. NCC must win the conference 2.They would love to get another crack at Wabash. 3. BU and Aurora?? 4. Agree with you about scheduling creampuff over competative.

[Pat Coleman]

What role, if any, did Lacrosse play in the outcome of this game?  All I'm reading is that North Central singularly lost here without any real mention of, you know, the team trying to take ball away from the Cardinals and keep them from scoring. That seems relevant.

I think they were playing Football, not Lacrosse.

[wally_wabash]

What role, if any, did Lacrosse play in the outcome of this game?  All I'm reading is that North Central singularly lost here without any real mention of, you know, the team trying to take ball away from the Cardinals and keep them from scoring. That seems relevant.

I think they were playing Football, not Lacrosse.

La Crosse. That's my bad and I really try to avoid butchering names like that.

What role, if any, did Lacrosse play in the outcome of this game?  All I'm reading is that North Central singularly lost here without any real mention of, you know, the team trying to take ball away from the Cardinals and keep them from scoring. That seems relevant.

That's pretty much what happened IMHO. NC should have, but didn't come out with the W.

Follow up question. Does North Central ever lose a game because they just got beat by a team that didn't get the memo that North Central isn't supposed to lose? I read a lot of reasons why NCC loses games (long road trips, fluky plays, turnovers that I guess don't get forced by a team trying to defend the Cardinals) but never ever does North Central seem to lose because somebody else was better.  I'm just trying to understand this so that I can stop being annoyed by it.

[hazzben]

It's a surprising position for the #6 team in the country to be in after hosting a team in the opener that was 3-7 overall/2-5 WIAC last year, and picked to finish 6th in the WIAC this year.

3-7 in the WIAC is a little different than other leagues. Lax was in every game except for their 2 losses to UWW. Yep, had to play them twice due to the quirks of the WIAC. And even in those losses they played them closer than most playoff teams do. That 3-7 is very deceiving. Their other non-con loss was by 7 @ UMHB.

I've thought UWL would be better this year. Probably not 2nd in the WIAC better, but I could see them finishing in the top 3-5 of the WIAC. But I was still surprised to see them beat NCC.

[NCF]

What role, if any, did Lacrosse play in the outcome of this game?  All I'm reading is that North Central singularly lost here without any real mention of, you know, the team trying to take ball away from the Cardinals and keep them from scoring. That seems relevant.

I think they were playing Football, not Lacrosse.

La Crosse. That's my bad and I really try to avoid butchering names like that.

What role, if any, did Lacrosse play in the outcome of this game?  All I'm reading is that North Central singularly lost here without any real mention of, you know, the team trying to take ball away from the Cardinals and keep them from scoring. That seems relevant.

That's pretty much what happened IMHO. NC should have, but didn't come out with the W.

Follow up question. Does North Central ever lose a game because they just got beat by a team that didn't get the memo that North Central isn't supposed to lose? I read a lot of reasons why NCC loses games (long road trips, fluky plays, turnovers that I guess don't get forced by a team trying to defend the Cardinals) but never ever does North Central seem to lose because somebody else was better.  I'm just trying to understand this so that I can stop being annoyed by it.

You'll never stop being annoyed by it but yes in 2009-ONU and IWU,2010-UWW. Before then I never saw a game, but I'm sure they did. Sometimes the better team doesn't win and that's the way it goes. Yesterday is history and they need to focus on next week. Right now that is the only game that matters.

[AndOne]

Follow up question. Does North Central ever lose a game because they just got beat by a team that didn't get the memo that North Central isn't supposed to lose? I read a lot of reasons why NCC loses games (long road trips, fluky plays, turnovers that I guess don't get forced by a team trying to defend the Cardinals) but never ever does North Central seem to lose because somebody else was better.  I'm just trying to understand this so that I can stop being annoyed by it.

Wally---

Sure, North Central sometimes loses a game because the other team is better. Just like ALL teams that don't go undefeated do. However, an underdog team that earns a win can often be said to have been the better team that day, which does not necessarily mean they are the better team. LaCrosse was definitely the better team yesterday. They took advantage of the opportunities NCC presented them and earned the victory. However, is LaCrosse a better team than North Central? While I am certainly biased, I really don't think so. If they played each other X amount more times, I honestly think NCC would win a very high percentage of those games. However, yesterday, when it counted, LaCrosse was definitely the better team. While NCC played like chumps, UNL played like champs, and deservedly earned the victory. JMHO 

Just wondering--What was the basis of your question? Just trying to understand where you are coming from. Thanks