FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[USee]

"It was a hard-fought win," said Rucks, "and I honestly didn't know where it was headed at the end.  When we needed it, we found it.  We had a great first series to open the game, and then we had a good one to finish the game.  Everything in between, we'll work on next week.  The kids found a way to win, and I'm excited for them  Adrian is a good team and picked to win their league, so this was a good win.  Adrian didn't pressure us all that much.  Our pass protection was good, better than I thought it would be.  A.J. Simoncelli did a lot nice little things that don't show up in the stats.  He is a very composed individual, and he will grow a lot from this game.  His potential is unlimited.  He never got rattled or shook. I think we have the best defensive line in the league—they're pretty good.  It's the strength of our team right now."

This is a very strong statement from a coach who would know what this means. I think NCC and IWU will have pretty good D-Lines so if Rucks is right, Carthage may be better than I thought they would be. Adrian, who is picked to finish 2nd in the MIAA, rushed it 43 times for just 81 yds, a 1.9 ypr. While Adrian is not a great indicator (they had 3 new OL) it will be an area I will watch to see how Carthage's defense develops.

[NCF]

"It was a hard-fought win," said Rucks, "and I honestly didn't know where it was headed at the end.  When we needed it, we found it.  We had a great first series to open the game, and then we had a good one to finish the game.  Everything in between, we'll work on next week.  The kids found a way to win, and I'm excited for them  Adrian is a good team and picked to win their league, so this was a good win.  Adrian didn't pressure us all that much.  Our pass protection was good, better than I thought it would be.  A.J. Simoncelli did a lot nice little things that don't show up in the stats.  He is a very composed individual, and he will grow a lot from this game.  His potential is unlimited.  He never got rattled or shook. I think we have the best defensive line in the league—they're pretty good.  It's the strength of our team right now."

This is a very strong statement from a coach who would know what this means. I think NCC and IWU will have pretty good D-Lines so if Rucks is right, Carthage may be better than I thought they would be. Adrian, who is picked to finish 2nd in the MIAA, rushed it 43 times for just 81 yds, a 1.9 ypr. While Adrian is not a great indicator (they had 3 new OL) it will be an area I will watch to see how Carthage's defense develops.

Hmmmmmm-this is very interesting.

[matblake]

"It was a hard-fought win," said Rucks, "and I honestly didn't know where it was headed at the end.  When we needed it, we found it.  We had a great first series to open the game, and then we had a good one to finish the game.  Everything in between, we'll work on next week.  The kids found a way to win, and I'm excited for them  Adrian is a good team and picked to win their league, so this was a good win.  Adrian didn't pressure us all that much.  Our pass protection was good, better than I thought it would be.  A.J. Simoncelli did a lot nice little things that don't show up in the stats.  He is a very composed individual, and he will grow a lot from this game.  His potential is unlimited.  He never got rattled or shook. I think we have the best defensive line in the league—they're pretty good.  It's the strength of our team right now."

This is a very strong statement from a coach who would know what this means. I think NCC and IWU will have pretty good D-Lines so if Rucks is right, Carthage may be better than I thought they would be. Adrian, who is picked to finish 2nd in the MIAA, rushed it 43 times for just 81 yds, a 1.9 ypr. While Adrian is not a great indicator (they had 3 new OL) it will be an area I will watch to see how Carthage's defense develops.

Hmmmmmm-this is very interesting.

Indeed.  Looking forward to see how this plays out.

[79jaybird]

I think it is too early to really tell for sure, where a defense/offense etc. is at.    Using Elmhurst as an example, there have been 3-0 non conference records, with big stats and big play guys, only to wind up 3-4 in conference play, watching the playoffs from the stands. 

[CardAlum]

I think it is too early to really tell for sure, where a defense/offense etc. is at.    Using Elmhurst as an example, there have been 3-0 non conference records, with big stats and big play guys, only to wind up 3-4 in conference play, watching the playoffs from the stands. 

I'm going to have to agree on this one.  Pretty much every year Carthage does well in non-conference play and then has mixed results in the CCIW.  And how many times have we seen NCC drop a game during this time only to bounce back into the top 10.  I don't think these first three games give a clear depiction of what is to come.  The CCIW teams each know each other and know how to adapt...you just don't get that with the one-off games that occur in the first three games, especially the first game. 

I'm no expert but the reason the great teams are great is because their coaches have them prepared.  Game  1 is especially difficult because there is new personnel and tendencies are meaningless.  Just my opinion...

[matblake]

I think it is too early to really tell for sure, where a defense/offense etc. is at.    Using Elmhurst as an example, there have been 3-0 non conference records, with big stats and big play guys, only to wind up 3-4 in conference play, watching the playoffs from the stands. 

I'm going to have to agree on this one.  Pretty much every year Carthage does well in non-conference play and then has mixed results in the CCIW.  And how many times have we seen NCC drop a game during this time only to bounce back into the top 10.  I don't think these first three games give a clear depiction of what is to come.  The CCIW teams each know each other and know how to adapt...you just don't get that with the one-off games that occur in the first three games, especially the first game. 

I'm no expert but the reason the great teams are great is because their coaches have them prepared.  Game  1 is especially difficult because there is new personnel and tendencies are meaningless.  Just my opinion...

Oddly enough, this is what I like best about the early season, no tendencies and not enough games to make a clear picture.  Later on, especially when the conference slate begins, you need stats etc. to really back up your opinions.  Right now, a more pure speculative vein is acceptable.  It's kind of fun not having a perfectly clear picture and being able to prognosticate off of a very small sample size. 

[NCF]

I think it is too early to really tell for sure, where a defense/offense etc. is at.    Using Elmhurst as an example, there have been 3-0 non conference records, with big stats and big play guys, only to wind up 3-4 in conference play, watching the playoffs from the stands. 

I'm going to have to agree on this one.  Pretty much every year Carthage does well in non-conference play and then has mixed results in the CCIW.  And how many times have we seen NCC drop a game during this time only to bounce back into the top 10.  I don't think these first three games give a clear depiction of what is to come.  The CCIW teams each know each other and know how to adapt...you just don't get that with the one-off games that occur in the first three games, especially the first game. 

I'm no expert but the reason the great teams are great is because their coaches have them prepared.  Game  1 is especially difficult because there is new personnel and tendencies are meaningless.  Just my opinion...

Oddly enough, this is what I like best about the early season, no tendencies and not enough games to make a clear picture.  Later on, especially when the conference slate begins, you need stats etc. to really back up your opinions.  Right now, a more pure speculative vein is acceptable.  It's kind of fun not having a perfectly clear picture and being able to prognosticate off of a very small sample size.

So true. The non-conference slate results can be misleading especially when the games are not very competative. Also, new players getting the feel for their position add to the picture not being too clear early on. Once the conference season begins, a teams strength and weaknesses will become more predictable (JMO)

[USee]

We aren't trying to predict based on one game. There is plenty of data to analyze Ruck's claims. All four starting D-linemen return for the Redmen. Tyler O'Brien was 2nd Team all CCIW. Their starting 4 of O'Brien, Merucci, Dorau and Storment all return. I compared them with the top D-Lines from last year's CCIW, NCC, Wheaton, IWU and here is what you get (I used the top 6 statistical leaders on the dline for each team):

Totals        Tackles   TFL   Sacks
NCC           180        40.5   29
Wheaton    138         24    13.5
IWU          141         27     16
Carthage    124         38     14
         
Avg         Tackles       TFL      Sacks   
NCC           15           3.38     2.42
Wheaton    13.8         2.4       1.35
IWU           12.82       2.45     1.45
Carthage     12.4        3.8       1.4

Last year Carthage was arguably the 4th best Dline in the league. Coach Rucks has reason for optimism in that only IWU brings back more than 1 starter and Carthage has all 4 back. If they are going to compete with those teams, his DLine NEEDS to be the best in the league. In the first game vs Adrian, Carthage's DLine had 30 tackles, 9 TFL and 7 sacks. If they keep that pace they will not only be the best DLine in the league, but the best in the country. But that was 1 game and it was Adrian.

[NCF]

We aren't trying to predict based on one game. There is plenty of data to analyze Ruck's claims. All four starting D-linemen return for the Redmen. Tyler O'Brien was 2nd Team all CCIW. Their starting 4 of O'Brien, Merucci, Dorau and Storment all return. I compared them with the top D-Lines from last year's CCIW, NCC, Wheaton, IWU and here is what you get (I used the top 6 statistical leaders on the dline for each team):

Totals        Tackles   TFL   Sacks
NCC           180        40.5   29
Wheaton    138         24    13.5
IWU          141         27     16
Carthage    124         38     14
         
Avg         Tackles       TFL      Sacks   
NCC           15           3.38     2.42
Wheaton    13.8         2.4       1.35
IWU           12.82       2.45     1.45
Carthage     12.4        3.8       1.4

Last year Carthage was arguably the 4th best Dline in the league. Coach Rucks has reason for optimism in that only IWU brings back more than 1 starter and Carthage has all 4 back. If they are going to compete with those teams, his DLine NEEDS to be the best in the league. In the first game vs Adrian, Carthage's DLine had 30 tackles, 9 TFL and 7 sacks. If they keep that pace they will not only be the best DLine in the league, but the best in the country. But that was 1 game and it was Adrian.

But remember, NC rotates quite a bit, so even though the new guys did not "start", they had plenty of quality minutes last year. You can compare stats after they play a quality team. If they(Carthage) are the best-we'll all know it.  BTW, I'm not saying NC is the best at anything at this point in the season. We'll see how much they improve after this week (and it better be a LOT-LOL)

[USee]

every team had 6 players on the DLine last year that collected most of the stats. NCC had significant numbers for #5 and #6 and Carthage and IWU did not. Wheaton only plays 3 DL at a time and rotated 5 guys all year. NCC is not unique but their backups got more time than the other's backups. All of that is reflected in the stats I posted. It's apples to apples in my opinion.

[matblake]

every team had 6 players on the DLine last year that collected most of the stats. NCC had significant numbers for #5 and #6 and Carthage and IWU did not. Wheaton only plays 3 DL at a time and rotated 5 guys all year. NCC is not unique but their backups got more time than the other's backups. All of that is reflected in the stats I posted. It's apples to apples in my opinion.

Good clarification.

[USee]

But remember, NC rotates quite a bit, so even though the new guys did not "start", they had plenty of quality minutes last year. You can compare stats after they play a quality team. If they(Carthage) are the best-we'll all know it.  BTW, I'm not saying NC is the best at anything at this point in the season. We'll see how much they improve after this week (and it better be a LOT-LOL)

NCC's DLine stats from week 1 vs their 2011 per game average:

Week 1: 16 tackles, 5.5 tfl, 2 sacks
2011:    15 tackles, 3.4 tfl, 2.4 sacks

[NCF]

But remember, NC rotates quite a bit, so even though the new guys did not "start", they had plenty of quality minutes last year. You can compare stats after they play a quality team. If they(Carthage) are the best-we'll all know it.  BTW, I'm not saying NC is the best at anything at this point in the season. We'll see how much they improve after this week (and it better be a LOT-LOL)

NCC's DLine stats from week 1 vs their 2011 per game average:

Week 1: 16 tackles, 5.5 tfl, 2 sacks
2011:    15 tackles, 3.4 tfl, 2.4 sacks

NC's defense was awesome last week(my bias) it's the offense that needs to improve alot(ie, hang on the ball please), should have clarified that, sorry.

[OxyBob]

Differences in polling philosophies aside, what grinds my gears here is that you won't give any credit to a team that beats North Central.  It's like you think North Central is playing against tackling dummies and if they lose you treat it like they had a bad practice or something.  That other team has good players and good coaches and they are trying their damnedest to cause fumbles, intercept passes, score touchdowns of their own, and ultimately win a football game.  They aren't necessarily there to follow the script that NCC wrote during their morning walkthrough.  It wouldn't kill you guys to give somebody else some credit once in a while.  Hell,  you're still using injury as an excuse for a game in 2009!  It's ok to acknowledge that somebody else was better, even if it was just one day.

North Central and Redlands are perfect for each other.

http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4701.msg1110651#msg1110651

OxyBob

[robertgoulet]

Differences in polling philosophies aside, what grinds my gears here is that you won't give any credit to a team that beats North Central.  It's like you think North Central is playing against tackling dummies and if they lose you treat it like they had a bad practice or something.  That other team has good players and good coaches and they are trying their damnedest to cause fumbles, intercept passes, score touchdowns of their own, and ultimately win a football game.  They aren't necessarily there to follow the script that NCC wrote during their morning walkthrough.  It wouldn't kill you guys to give somebody else some credit once in a while.  Hell,  you're still using injury as an excuse for a game in 2009!  It's ok to acknowledge that somebody else was better, even if it was just one day.

North Central and Redlands are perfect for each other.

http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4701.msg1110651#msg1110651

OxyBob

Oxy - I suggest going back and reading the posts that followed Mr. Wabash's.