FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[WarhawkDad]

The Purple Powers thing is strange to me.  Having seen so much of UWW and Mt- IMO the one thing that sets them apart from the other top teams in the country is execution more than anything else- and not talent. 

Everytime I watch UWW and MTU online or on TV (in the title game), I leave thinking there is an enormous talent gap between them and the rest of Division III.  In my opinion the two powers have more "scholarship-caliber" kids across the board (offense, defense, special teams) than other teams. 

Don't get me wrong, they both execute extremely well, but I think UW-Whitewater and Mount Union get off the bus with the best players week after week (including the playoffs).

In recent years it has seemed like NCC is really closing the talent gap with the big two...but I don't think the Cards have ever pulled even.  Certainly heading in the right direction though.

I think significantly more goes into it.

Coaching, I know everyone thinks their coach is great, but UWW has outstanding coaches and beyond the individuals, they have excellent schemes and game plans.

Confidence, winning builds confidence and winning close games and championships builds confidence. 

Success breeds success.  Each year the purples can count on players who have not been as successful at DII or DI schools dropping down to play DIII and they want to play for a winner.   While some of them stick, the interesting thing to me having been around it now for 4 years is the number that do not make it.   It really is a mental game as much as a physical one.

I could go on, but facilities, strength and conditioning contribute and then the ability to get young players into games when you have major leads to build their experience and playing 5 extra games and thus practicing 5 extra weeks really helps as well.

WarhawkDad

[Pat Coleman]

You know, I'd be all for this ho-hum, nice guy, "everyone has their reasons" schtick if at some point you actually got into a conversation or argument with some gusto. The past several times you've posted--and not just on this board--Wally's made some good, sound points that would make for lively discussion should you actually disagree.

Alright, honestly, it's not enough that he doesn't agree, but now he has to argue also? Not everyone is going to agree with Wabash fans and not everyone is going to argue with gusto either. Just because the Wabash fans have beaten the NCAC board into submission doesn't mean the CCIW is going to roll over for you guys either.

[BashDad]

You know, I'd be all for this ho-hum, nice guy, "everyone has their reasons" schtick if at some point you actually got into a conversation or argument with some gusto. The past several times you've posted--and not just on this board--Wally's made some good, sound points that would make for lively discussion should you actually disagree.

Alright, honestly, it's not enough that he doesn't agree, but now he has to argue also? Not everyone is going to agree with Wabash fans and not everyone is going to argue with gusto either. Just because the Wabash fans have beaten the NCAC board into submission doesn't mean the CCIW is going to roll over for you guys either.

Uh. What? How about just provide a point of view that opposes the one you're disagreeing with? How about that? That's not cool?

[BashDad]

Alright, honestly, it's not enough that he doesn't agree, but now he has to argue also?

If he's taking the time to post anything, why not argue for his position? Or are we just supposed to sign on and raise our hands for whatever side of whatever discussion we want to align ourselves with? I'll try and do that more. I didn't know.

And I'm angry that you're using this as an opportunity to voice some clearly pent up frustrations with Wabash fans in the abstract. I'm not a bully or a troll and I'd appreciate not being treated as one. It's not inappropriate to desire illuminating argument from literally the only place to explore and indulge D3 football.

[Gregory Sager]

BashDad, you simply have to know your audience. NewCardFan never argues. NCF's just a cat who will throw a one-sentence or two-sentence opinion out into cyberspace every few minutes, and if you disagree while stating why you disagree with NCF, you'll automatically get the "everyone's entitled to an opinion" response. This is NCF's pattern on all boards, by the way, not just football boards.

And there's nothing wrong with that. We aren't issued playbooks when we register that instruct us on how to participate on this site. The only guidelines are the Terms of Service, and they are more about enforcing properly ethical behavior than they are a "how to post" primer. There's no right or wrong way to post. This is simply NCF's way of participating. If you want to engage in a protracted back-and-forth about D3 football, NCF's not the person to seek out. There are plenty of genuinely disputatious CCIW fans who post here [raising my hand] who can accommodate you.

[Gregory Sager]

Greg I'm surprised by not winning any non conference game yet since last year we were 3-0 in non conference and  since there is more experience this year returning since what we lost like 9 seniors I can't believe by losing them we have gone backwards  were they that good that their backups are having problems but seems the offense is still the same

NPU actually only lost six seniors from last year's team, not nine, although a couple of defensive starters from 2011 who had eligibility remaining aren't on the team this season.

The base offense is the same -- it's still the flexbone option that the Vikings have run for the past two and a half seasons -- but there are some new wrinkles thrown in that enable NPU to call more than two or three basic (and very predictable) pass plays out of that formation. Don't get me wrong; North Park is still a running team that employs a run-first offensive system. But it's a little more flexible now.

You and I share the same reaction to those first two games, newparker. Why isn't a team with this much experience playing more disciplined and more technically sound football?

[NCF]

BashDad, you simply have to know your audience. NewCardFan never argues. NCF's just a cat who will throw a one-sentence or two-sentence opinion out into cyberspace every few minutes, and if you disagree while stating why you disagree with NCF, you'll automatically get the "everyone's entitled to an opinion" response. This is NCF's pattern on all boards, by the way, not just football boards.

And there's nothing wrong with that. We aren't issued playbooks when we register that instruct us on how to participate on this site. The only guidelines are the Terms of Service, and they are more about enforcing properly ethical behavior than they are a "how to post" primer. There's no right or wrong way to post. This is simply NCF's way of participating. If you want to engage in a protracted back-and-forth about D3 football, NCF's not the person to seek out. There are plenty of genuinely disputatious CCIW fans who post here [raising my hand] who can accommodate you.

There's a "right" and "wrong" way to participate? And here I thought it was just a place to voice an opinion

[wally_wabash]

Didn't mean to try to beat anybody into submission here.  I get wrapped in polling and how people think about polling.  Probably disproportionately so given how meaningless the poll is in the big picture of Division-III.  Here, it was put forth that North Central should have been moved up in the poll (they were moved up, even if the nominal ranking didn't change).  If somebody should be moved up, somebody else has to be moved down...I was just curious as to who and why. 

There is more here than just that.  Last postseason we heard an awful lot about how North Central and to a lesser extent IWU were going to roll their way through to regional finals basically because the league they play in is so rugged.  This I don't understand...leagues don't play other leagues.  Teams play other teams.  So why does the CCIW have this reputation as such an awesome league?  It's the non-league record.  I peeled back some layers on the CCIW's non-league record.  Since 2009, the league is 74-22 in non league games (including playoffs) which is awesome.  There's certainly nothing that I or anybody else can say to dispute that.  However, 65% of those wins have been accumulated against teams that play in the MIAA, NathCon, and UMAC.  All conferences that, without spoiling subscription content, are ranked very, very low by the experts at this site.  The CCIW's gaudy record has been built on a steady diet of decidedly lesser competition.  The point is that I don't believe that the perception matches the reality.  The best teams in the CCIW are not just losing to Whitewater and Mount Union.  They are dropping games to good teams from "lesser" leagues (Albion, La Crosse, Redlands, Wabash, Monmouth...just since the start of 2011) and they are doing so at a rate that I believe severely erodes the benefit of the doubt capital that seems to exist with CCIW teams and many pollsters.  I think it's an interesting discussion and debate to have which is really what's fueling my posts here. 

[AndOne]

Alright, honestly, it's not enough that he doesn't agree, but now he has to argue also?

If he's taking the time to post anything, why not argue for his position? Or are we just supposed to sign on and raise our hands for whatever side of whatever discussion we want to align ourselves with? I'll try and do that more. I didn't know.

And I'm angry that you're using this as an opportunity to voice some clearly pent up frustrations with Wabash fans in the abstract. I'm not a bully or a troll and I'd appreciate not being treated as one. It's not inappropriate to desire illuminating argument from literally the only place to explore and indulge D3 football.

Bash---

Another tidbit for your memory bank...........

As an addendum to what GS said above about knowing your audience, you may wish to know that newcardfan is NOT a he but rather, a lady. SHE is the mom of an NCC football starter, and I believe is involved in other sports with a daughter. She is actually pretty knowledgeable about a variety of sports, and is especially well versed on the subject of football.
Despite sometimes being goaded, she usually chooses to remain a non-argumrntative lady but, rest assured, it is neither due to the lack of a backbone nor limited knowledge about the sport of football. 

[Titan Q]

There is more here than just that.  Last postseason we heard an awful lot about how North Central and to a lesser extent IWU were going to roll their way through to regional finals basically because the league they play in is so rugged. This I don't understand...leagues don't play other leagues.  Teams play other teams. 

Here are the posts on this board from last season, from the moment the 2011 bracket was released, leading up to Round 1 games...

http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4077.24270

Unless I'm missing something, I don't see any posts about North Central or IWU rolling their way through Round 1 games because of the strength of the CCIW. 


And here are the posts starting from the moment NCC vs Wabash was officially a matchup (the afternoon after the Round 1 games) leading up to the Nov 26 game...

http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4077.24435

Again, maybe I'm missing it, but I don't see any posts that week about NCC beating Wabash because of the strength of the CCIW.  Plenty of talk of individual attributes of North Central (their offense, defense, playmakers, etc) - but no suggestion that somehow playing in the CCIW was an advantage for NCC in that game.


Were there posts on another board, wally? 

[bleedpurple]

Emma---

Consider:

1. You said its execution, not talent that sets the purples apart. Perhaps those that can execute properly most often are able to do so because they are also the most talented. To be the best overall, you need both physical and mental toughness. Its that mental toughness which enables an athlete to execute at the highest level with a minimum number of mistakes.

2. Some teams have even more than talent and execution going for them. 

Emma, suddenly a UWW guy is being humble.  Usually, UWW supporters are talking about how much talent they have, how deep they are. Maybe it's practicing against that deep talent that improves their execution.  Or practicing deep into December every year. 

Easy, Gator. Pointing out that UW-W is talented or deep does not reflect a lack of humility.  It might reflect being a Master of the Obvious, but not lack of humility.    I've always felt like most UW-W posters are naturally humble and somewhat Nervous Nellyish (present company excluded of course!).  Personally, I like to read the CCIW board, but I would wager that viewers from "outside conferences" would rate UW-W posters at least as humble as CCIW posters. 

[Mr. Ypsi]

Emma---

Consider:

1. You said its execution, not talent that sets the purples apart. Perhaps those that can execute properly most often are able to do so because they are also the most talented. To be the best overall, you need both physical and mental toughness. Its that mental toughness which enables an athlete to execute at the highest level with a minimum number of mistakes.

2. Some teams have even more than talent and execution going for them. 

Emma, suddenly a UWW guy is being humble.  Usually, UWW supporters are talking about how much talent they have, how deep they are. Maybe it's practicing against that deep talent that improves their execution.  Or practicing deep into December every year. 

Easy, Gator. Pointing out that UW-W is talented or deep does not reflect a lack of humility.  It might reflect being a Master of the Obvious, but not lack of humility.    I've always felt like most UW-W posters are naturally humble and somewhat Nervous Nellyish (present company excluded of course!).  Personally, I like to read the CCIW board, but I would wager that viewers from "outside conferences" would rate UW-W posters at least as humble as CCIW posters.

Consarn it!!  CCIW posters are THE most humble people on the face of the earth, and we are damned proud (in a humble way, of course) of it!!

[bleedpurple]

Emma---

Consider:

1. You said its execution, not talent that sets the purples apart. Perhaps those that can execute properly most often are able to do so because they are also the most talented. To be the best overall, you need both physical and mental toughness. Its that mental toughness which enables an athlete to execute at the highest level with a minimum number of mistakes.

2. Some teams have even more than talent and execution going for them. 

Emma, suddenly a UWW guy is being humble.  Usually, UWW supporters are talking about how much talent they have, how deep they are. Maybe it's practicing against that deep talent that improves their execution.  Or practicing deep into December every year. 

Easy, Gator. Pointing out that UW-W is talented or deep does not reflect a lack of humility.  It might reflect being a Master of the Obvious, but not lack of humility.    I've always felt like most UW-W posters are naturally humble and somewhat Nervous Nellyish (present company excluded of course!).  Personally, I like to read the CCIW board, but I would wager that viewers from "outside conferences" would rate UW-W posters at least as humble as CCIW posters.

Consarn it!!  CCIW posters are THE most humble people on the face of the earth, and we are damned proud (in a humble way, of course) of it!!

And there's the tiebreaker! Mr Y! 

I was going to take an unwarranted shot at the MIAC posters in all of this, but they have seemed to have toned it down lately (except for jokes about ice-fishing and fat Wisconsin women) 

[Gregory Sager]

Alright, honestly, it's not enough that he doesn't agree, but now he has to argue also?

If he's taking the time to post anything, why not argue for his position? Or are we just supposed to sign on and raise our hands for whatever side of whatever discussion we want to align ourselves with? I'll try and do that more. I didn't know.

And I'm angry that you're using this as an opportunity to voice some clearly pent up frustrations with Wabash fans in the abstract. I'm not a bully or a troll and I'd appreciate not being treated as one. It's not inappropriate to desire illuminating argument from literally the only place to explore and indulge D3 football.

Bash---

Another tidbit for your memory bank...........

As an addendum to what GS said above about knowing your audience, you may wish to know that newcardfan is NOT a he but rather, a lady.

Does this constitute NCF being "outed", or does that only apply to gay people?

(NCF, I tried keeping it a secret, just in case you didn't want anyone to know. It's why I referred to you throughout my last post without using gender pronouns. )

Since 2009, the league is 74-22 in non league games (including playoffs) which is awesome.  There's certainly nothing that I or anybody else can say to dispute that.  However, 65% of those wins have been accumulated against teams that play in the MIAA, NathCon, and UMAC.  All conferences that, without spoiling subscription content, are ranked very, very low by the experts at this site.  The CCIW's gaudy record has been built on a steady diet of decidedly lesser competition.

Instead of parceling out selected bits of information that buttress your argument, which is the way that politicians, opinion journalists, and other people of questionable moral fiber make their cases, give us all the information, please. Let's see a full breakdown of the CCIW's non-conference record on a league-by-league basis since 2009.

The point is that I don't believe that the perception matches the reality.  The best teams in the CCIW are not just losing to Whitewater and Mount Union.  They are dropping games to good teams from "lesser" leagues (Albion, La Crosse, Redlands, Wabash, Monmouth...just since the start of 2011)

Last time I checked, UW-LaCrosse was a member of the WIAC. Has anyone in here ever called the WIAC a "lesser league"? C'mon, CCIW fans, let's see those hands. 'fess up. Which one of you called the WIAC a "lesser league"?

[Gregory Sager]

Emma---

Consider:

1. You said its execution, not talent that sets the purples apart. Perhaps those that can execute properly most often are able to do so because they are also the most talented. To be the best overall, you need both physical and mental toughness. Its that mental toughness which enables an athlete to execute at the highest level with a minimum number of mistakes.

2. Some teams have even more than talent and execution going for them. 

Emma, suddenly a UWW guy is being humble.  Usually, UWW supporters are talking about how much talent they have, how deep they are. Maybe it's practicing against that deep talent that improves their execution.  Or practicing deep into December every year. 

Easy, Gator. Pointing out that UW-W is talented or deep does not reflect a lack of humility.  It might reflect being a Master of the Obvious, but not lack of humility.    I've always felt like most UW-W posters are naturally humble and somewhat Nervous Nellyish (present company excluded of course!).  Personally, I like to read the CCIW board, but I would wager that viewers from "outside conferences" would rate UW-W posters at least as humble as CCIW posters.

Consarn it!!  CCIW posters are THE most humble people on the face of the earth, and we are damned proud (in a humble way, of course) of it!!

... and if you give us a little bit of time, we can come up with the statistics to prove it, too.