FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[ncc58]

Lets not forget how North Central got here. They ponied up and hired one of the best high school football coaches in the state. With his connections he had a couple key division one players transfer in (QB and WR, whose names escape me from 6-8 years ago). Had a couple stellar years and was able to capitalize on that success by getting top tier recruits from one of the richest areas in the country. I give them a ton of credit but what happened was quick, most programs have to build and it takes time.

The WR was Tyke Spencer, whose brother (now on the NCC staff) had played at NCC and held some records at that time. Whose father has been at NCC in various capacities for 30+ years now. He didn't come to NCC because of Coach Thorne.

I'm not sure who you mean by the QB. Kam Kniss was recruited by EIU, but they considered him too small. Several other CCIW schools recruited him aggressively. His brother Kyle did transfer from EIU to NCC, but he only started a couple game in his NCC career.

What Coach Thorne did bring to NCC was connections to high schools in the Chicago suburban conferences, especially the DVC. NCC began to get players that were going elsewhere to play.

[hazzben]

And this is why I have very, very little patience with people who pick their favorite teams arbitrarily, rather than through location or family ties. What an amazing coincidence that most people who choose their favorite teams arbitrarily end up choosing the New York Yankees, or the Dallas Cowboys, or the Boston Celtics, or the Los Angeles Lakers. I don't care if you picked that team as a kid, you're still a front-runner. If you're someone like Dennis Prikkel, who actually grew up in the Bronx and went to more Yankees games as a kid than he can count, then, yeah, you've got a legitimate claim on Yankees fanhood. But if you're some midwesterner who simply picked the Yankees or the Cowboys or the Lakers because they won all the time, then I don't want to hear about it. You're a front-runner, and I don't think much of that particular species of fandom.

It's not quite that simple. My dad is a Yankees fan. He grew up on a farm in NW Iowa. He cheers for the Yankees because that was the team on the radio in his area. So yeah, they had Mickey Mantle and were pretty incredible, but it also had a lot to do with the Yankees being the only team he had access to. They might have been front runners, but there were no Twins or Royals when he was a kid and teams like the Cubs being 10 hours away might as well have been in New York back then. So, there's a midwesterner Yankees fan who is hardly a 'frontrunner,' but more just cheering for the only team he had access to as a kid.

I should add. I hate the Yankees and I'm the only member of my family who doesn't cheer for them. I'm a Twins fan and a small market guy through and through! 

[iwu70]

On these boards over two years, I've had such high high hopes, praise for T.J. Stinde.  But, as Q has mentioned, he's just not staying healthy, not proving to be durable.  Very sad to see as I think he has the potential to be one of the top backs in the CCIW.  Let's hope this latest injury is short-lived. 

On fandom, just for the record, I lived in NYC for fifteen + years and spent ALOT of time at the old Yankee stadium.  Believe it or not, there are lots and lots of Midwesterners transplated to Boston, Philly, DC and NYC for various work and other reasons, and they take up some new loyalties given the quality of the teams, stadiums, and fan experience in those great sporting towns.  I surely took up my loyalties to NYC during the 70s, 80s, during the era of Reggie Jackson, Ron Guidry and their comrades, then surely became even more a life-time New Yorker, when living there from 2000-2003 and went through the trauma of 9/11 as a New Yorker.  I shall always be a New Yorker in that regard . . . loyal to the families, the police and firefighters, and the city, with all is incredible and wonderful diversity and cultural richness, its open and wild political debate, as a whole. 

Yankees looking better now, with injured players coming back, CC Sabathia pitching well again, return of Pettitte, Gardner, Nova, and A-Rod, and now the wonderful contributions off the bench and the newly acquired Ichiro.  Gotta love the late season moves . . . and the contributions they are bringing to the strong veterans, esp. Jeter, Cano and Granderson.  Though a "old" team, they are still an incredible line-up.  Right now, Nats and Rangers look strongest, but I'm not counting out my 'ole Bombers just yet.

Should be a good game @Hope today.  Go Titans!!!!!!!!  Let's hope Devonte Jones has an outstanding day starting in Stinde's place.  I think Hope will play above their recent level, playing at Home.

IWU70

[AndOne]

bluejay,

The funny thing is, many on this board used to get on jaybird for being over optimistic about the EC program in past seasons, myself included.  I don't really see his posts as being negative toward the EC program, just realistic.  I think many agree that this is one of the strongest teams EC has put on the field in the past few decades.  They are 3-0 and looking good.  However, since the 2003 season, they have gone 3-0 to start the season 9 times, with the only blemish being a 2-1 start in 2011.  In three of those seasons, they actually started 4-0 and in one season (2005) 5-0.  So over the past ten years, EC has gone 29-1 heading into conference play.  During that same span, EC's conference record is 25-38.  So while I understand your optimism about the 2012 EC team, I also understand why jaybird has some doubts about EC heading into conference play.  After many years of 3-0 starts followed by disappointment in the CCIW games, I would certainly have my enthusiasm tempered, considerably.  If EC breaks through this year, I'm sure Jaybird will be the first to say he was wrong to doubt EC and happily so.

Well said, Augie6.

Ditto.

Augie6---

Double ditto. Good work.

BlueJay and Jaybird---

BlueJay--In light of EC's conference record over the last several yrs, as pointed out by other posters, I think you're being a little overly optimistic. 

Jaybird--I do think you may be a little too pessimistic. I say this because I do see some improvement in the Jays. They certainly have a super running back, and a very good QB, among some others. The main thing is EC has put themselves in a position where they are now more or less expected to win their non-conference games, and at least 3-4 conference games. As far as conference games they eventually lose, my sense is that they are now good enough where they will usually be in the game until close to the final whistle. In other words, they have put themselves in a position to win whereas many times previously this was not an option as they had already basically lost the game by halftime or by the end of the 3rd quarter.

You have both made comparisons between EC and NCC. I think there are 2 main differences in where EC and teams like NCC are at present. Those being that NCC and other "upper echelon" teams generally have skilled players at many positions on both sides of the ball. Also, not only do they have those high level players at many positions, but additionally, and probably most importantly, they have good depth at a high percentage of those many positions. This is the level I think EC needs to get to in order to join that "upper echelon."

[iwu70]

IWU up 20-0 @Hope in the latter part of the second quarter.  Very good tough D by the Titans.  Hope has only 36 total yards, only 6 yards rushing. 

IWU70

[NCF]

bluejay,

The funny thing is, many on this board used to get on jaybird for being over optimistic about the EC program in past seasons, myself included.  I don't really see his posts as being negative toward the EC program, just realistic.  I think many agree that this is one of the strongest teams EC has put on the field in the past few decades.  They are 3-0 and looking good.  However, since the 2003 season, they have gone 3-0 to start the season 9 times, with the only blemish being a 2-1 start in 2011.  In three of those seasons, they actually started 4-0 and in one season (2005) 5-0.  So over the past ten years, EC has gone 29-1 heading into conference play.  During that same span, EC's conference record is 25-38.  So while I understand your optimism about the 2012 EC team, I also understand why jaybird has some doubts about EC heading into conference play.  After many years of 3-0 starts followed by disappointment in the CCIW games, I would certainly have my enthusiasm tempered, considerably.  If EC breaks through this year, I'm sure Jaybird will be the first to say he was wrong to doubt EC and happily so.

Well said, Augie6.

Ditto.

Augie6---

Double ditto. Good work.

BlueJay and Jaybird---

BlueJay--In light of EC's conference record over the last several yrs, as pointed out by other posters, I think you're being a little overly optimistic. 

Jaybird--I do think you may be a little too pessimistic. I say this because I do see some improvement in the Jays. They certainly have a super running back, and a very good QB, among some others. The main thing is EC has put themselves in a position where they are now more or less expected to win their non-conference games, and at least 3-4 conference games. As far as conference games they eventually lose, my sense is that they are now good enough where they will usually be in the game until close to the final whistle. In other words, they have put themselves in a position to win whereas many times previously this was not an option as they had already basically lost the game by halftime or by the end of the 3rd quarter.

You have both made comparisons between EC and NCC. I think there are 2 main differences in where EC and teams like NCC are at present. Those being that NCC and other "upper echelon" teams generally have skilled players at many positions on both sides of the ball. Also, not only do they have those high level players at many positions, but additionally, and probably most importantly, they have good depth at a high percentage of those many positions. This is the level I think EC needs to get to in order to join that "upper echelon."

That is very true, however, I would add one point. Those teams with depth, develop it throughout the season. It helps keep your starters fresh and your back-ups ready to go when needed.

[NCF]

IWU up 20-0 @Hope in the latter part of the second quarter.  Very good tough D by the Titans.  Hope has only 36 total yards, only 6 yards rushing. 

IWU70

IWU will win this game and head into conf. play 3-0.

[NCF]

North Park up 33-14 at the half.

[NCF]

Brockport State, Buff State and B-W all down at halftime.

[Stagg Again!!]

OK Wally, we get that you think the CCIW sucks.

Yeah, that's not what I said and that's not what I think...and I think you know that. 

What I'd like to know is what conference(s) do you consider among the nation's elite?
I mean lets vanquish that (false) perception that many of us are apparently under. Give us some reality please.
I'm interested in your opinion.
Thanks.

See, it's not a question of which league is good and which league isn't.  The thing I'm trying to examine is why the polls so often value reputation over results with a specific focus on the teams in this league where, in my opinion, the reputation isn't quite fully supported by their on-field results.

Wally I appreciate your approach to this discussion- I think it's fair and thoughtful.
I'm one of the guilty ones that ranks the CCIW very highly year in and year out.  To be honest, the stats in your prior post regarding the CCIW's performance against better conferences surprised me. 

After some thought I realized the answer for me at least, comes back to the idea of quality losses and outlying losses.  UWEC lost to St. Thomas and St. John-is their 0-2 start indicative of a bad team- hardly.  The same holds true for the CCIW.  So many teams get blown out of the water in non conference games.  Whether it be in the regular season or the playoffs, for the most part a CCIW team is going to give their opponent a tough game.  It's hard to find examples of a CCIW team getting beat badly in a non-con or playoff game.  Granted some of the lower level CCIW's are playing an easier non-con schedule- but in those games they more than hold their own.  Additionally, I believe in outlying losses- the types of losses that occur that just don't fit with the true team. This will raise objections I know, but IMO if every NCC game this year was against La Crosse, NCC would finish with a 9-1 record.

At the end of the day, to me it's more about knowing you'll get a quality game (meaning the outcome will be in doubt into the 4th qrtr) from the majority of teams within a conference than it is about their overall wins and losses.           

Wow. Would you feel the same way if LaCrosse was located in Illinois?  9-1 is a bit strong

Wow, No matter how much I like and typically agree with Emma, seeing we are both FIB's and Fremd fans (high school) 9-1 is too strong.   More like 7-3. 

WarhawkDad

If you watched the entire game, not just the highlights(or lowlights if your an NC fan ) 9-1 or 8-2 would be about right.

Interesting that you would project such consistency on a team that turned the ball over as much as NCC did that day.  The different perspectives are fun to explore on this board!

So what about the last couple of years?

What would NCC have been in 10 games against Wabash last year?  Redlands? UW-W in 2010?

The good news is that Emma now has no excuse to be Nervous Nellie during UWW-Lacrosse week this year.  And that's good because I think I may need help in calming other UW-W fans down during that week! 

6-4, 9-1, 1-9

Sorry that I am so slow to respond to this post, but I have been a bit buried at work.  This topic was too irresistable to pass up on though.  Having attended all of the games in question, I believe I have enough perspective.  Assuming that all four teams were limited to the players on the field at the time of the game, and that the ten games were played either half in each home stadium or all on a neutral field:

2011 NCC wins seven of ten against 2011 Wabash (Tyler Burke only had only so many more ribs which could be broken!!).
2011 NCC wins seven of ten against 2011 Redlands (Chad Hurst had a lot of weapons, and the Redlands LBs were very quick to the ball which allowed them to match up well against NCC's run-game).
2010 NCC wins one of ten against 2010 U-WW (Warhawks proved they were the best team in the North Region in 2010).

I also believe that a matchup between the 2011 Wabash and 2011 Redlands teams would have been exciting to watch.  Wabash +2 on a neutral field due only to Wes Chamblee factor.  There was a big gulf between 2010 UWW and both of these teams.

As a side bar, the 2012 Redlands team that came to Naperville didn't look anywhere near as good as did the 2011 Bulldogs.  The team's losses due to graduation clearly took their toll on both sides of the ball.

No comments on how NCC would fare against UWL in ten games as I did not see the game, but I do know that the Cardinals were missing quite a few starters from their OL for that game.

[iwu70]

IWU wins 23-13.  Not very impressive by either team in second half.  4 TOs each team for the game. IWU's D held Hope to 60 total yards rushing.  IWU rushing equally enemic.  IWU passing game won the day.  Titans move to 3-0 in pre-CCIW play.  On to the tough CCIW schedule . . . starting with Millikin at home next weekend.

IWU70

[iwu70]

Congrats to NPU today on their win over Olivet. 

IWU70

[NCF]

Congrats to NPU today on their win over Olivet. 

IWU70

Congrats to the Vikings! They can ride the bus home!:)

[mr_b]

Congrats to NPU today on their win over Olivet. 

IWU70

I listened to the broadcast on the Olivet College website (I couldn't get the North Park link to work), and the play-by-play announcer referred to our CCIW rival as "Illinois Wesellanian."  I guess we need to include a pronunciation guide for institutional names in our next press guide.

[iwu70]

MU over Aurora 44-20, so Millikin also 3-0 in pre-CCIW phase of play.  Should be a great match-up next week @IWU @Tucci Stadium @Wilder Field in Bloomington --6 p.m. start time. 

IWU70