FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Titan Q]

Sounds like Elmhurst was dominated by North Central last night, but before writing off EC as a top tier team, keep in mind these scores between the Cardinals and the CCIW's 2nd & 3rd place teams the last two years...

2011
@ IWU (6-1) - NCC 24 IWU 0
vs Wheaton (5-2) - NCC 33 Wheaton 7

2010
@ Wheaton (6-1) - NCC 28 Wheaton 6
vs IWU (4-3) - NCC 30 IWU 7
@ Augustana (4-3) - NCC 34 Augie 14


Not a single close game there.

[USee]

After IWU scored to go up 34-27 in OT, the Big Blue also showed a lot of poise by countering with an impressive TD.  I tip my cap to Patrick Etherton for going for 2 and the win, but I thought the play call on the second PAT try (after the IWU penalty) was horrendous.  The Big Blue had the ball at the IWU 1 with a dual threat QB (Matt Holmes) and a good RB (Sean Dunning)...don't you have to put the ball in one of those two hands, needing just 1 yard for the win?  Instead they throw a fairly low percentage fade route??

I watched the final drive by IWU and the OT. I had the same impressions as Q. I think a fade route on a 2pt play to win the game is an exceedingly low percentage play (Platteville ran the same thing vs UWW. Augsburg had a 2pt for the win play that was much better but well defended by Bethel--I watched that on video as well). Matt Holmes was really really good from what I watched. I think Millikin will be a load for every CCIW team with his ability--if he stays healthy. He throws the ball with authority and on time and runs/scrambles effectively. Very tough to defend. With the ball on the 1 yard line and the game on the line you have to line up in a 2 back set and get out on the edge via sprint out, play action, or qb sweep. To run a no back scheme from the 1 and throw a fade is not a good choice. If you want a fade route line up in a goal line package with 1 wideout and let him go get it. The 5 wide set just lets a team run a zone scheme on the goal line. If you line up with a power backfield and 1 wideout, 99% of the time you would have bump and run on the 1 wideout. I think its a bad play call but at least that set gets you a higher percentage play. Baffling.

[USee]

Sounds like Elmhurst was dominated by North Central last night, but before writing off EC as a top tier team, keep in mind these scores between the Cardinals and the CCIW's 2nd & 3rd place teams the last two years...

2011
@ IWU (6-1) - NCC 24 IWU 0
vs Wheaton (5-2) - NCC 33 Wheaton 7

2010
@ Wheaton (6-1) - NCC 28 Wheaton 6
vs IWU (4-3) - NCC 30 IWU 7
@ Augustana (4-3) - NCC 34 Augie 14


Not a single close game there.

I agree Q. I wouldn't take much from the NCC/Elmhurst result. That's what we would have expected most of the time. What it tells me is that Elmhurst passing game is not as good as they need to be and NCC's defense will not let you beat them being 1 dimensional (which we have seen the last few years).

AndOne, the size of NCC's dline vs Elmhurst's Oline is only relevant if Elmhurst runs it right at you with double teams and pulling guards (power-O type schemes). Then you have to fight brawn with brawn. Because Elmhurst runs the inside/outside zone, athletic Dlineman can hurt you as penetration kills the run game. The zone scheme is heavily reliant on the OLine's technique. Penetration breaks down that technique and forces Scottie Williams into tighter running lanes. When those big bodies can get on you and stay on you the "stretch" is much more effective. When the DLine can beat you upfield and take away the RB's choices, it is much harder to run that scheme. If I was running the ball against NCC, I would come downhill via Iso and Power where penetrating Dlineman hurt the defense by creating bigger running lanes vs smaller running lanes.

[NCF]

Checked the pgraph article on the IWU-MU game.  Stinde finished with 185 yards on 30 carries, so shows how important he is for a more balanced Titan offensive attack.  FYI.

NCC still king of the hill . . . no doubt, until someone plays them tougher.  WC, IWU and NCC still top tier, though MU showed tonight that they are very very close, playing like they did tonight.  Believe it.

IWU70

Lots of offensive firepower here for both teams. Will be interesting to see what the NC D can do to limit that next week. Usee, if you were running the ball against NC, you might get hurt:).

[CardinalAlum]

Hey, I get it. Elmhurst pays you to be a cheerleader but at least call a spade a spade.

CAlum, the boards are better than this ignorant comment. 

Make up your mind, classy or ignorant?   You stated all week that the Jays were ready and would take the next step.  I merely stated that they didn't.   As a former coach, you should know as well as anyone, that you have to back up the statements you make. 


(Modified by Titan Q for quote formatting)

[Langhorst_Ghost]

Hey, I get it. Elmhurst pays you to be a cheerleader but at least call a spade a spade.

CAlum, the boards are better than this ignorant comment. 

Make up your mind, classy or ignorant?   You stated all week that the Jays were ready and would take the next step.  I merely stated that they didn't.   As a former coach, you should know as well as anyone, that you have to back up the statements you make. 

(Modified by Titan Q for quote formatting)

CardAlum - Not trying to get into a chat board tussle with you, just trying to keep the respect level at a high level amongst fans of competitors, and hoping you can keep things above the belt.  This is the only D3 media outlet on the web, and i hope each team can co-exist without taking unnecessary jabs: Cardinals, Bluejays, and every bird and/or other mascot in between. 

Tell you what - you are more than welcome to click back through my 20+ posts and try to find any jabs or low blows towards NCC - or, i will save you the 5 minutes and just tell you - you won't find any.  Every single one of my posts have been pro-EC, never anti-NCC. Every single reference to the Cards is made with respect and reverence for their sustained success...every single one.  If you would keep my entire post attached to your quote, you would clearly see NUMEROUS references to NCC's dominance Saturday night - i was the first to admit it.  You are right, i thought the 'Jays were ready, and they were obviously outplayed at Benedetti - i am not going to hide from that, but no one in the Bluejay football community is going to be kneeling at the foot of Thorne anytime soon - we will keep pushing to get to where you already are and have been for years.

You can root for your alma mater as loudly and proudly as you care to (my posts are certainly testament to that philosophy) - but you want to call me a "paid cheerleader" - i certainly hope you can represent your school with a higher level of dignity and respect than with uninformed and personal attack statements like that.

[CardAlum]

Let's be careful here that there are two CAlum's (CardinalAlum and CardAlum). 

However, like I said last week I think there is a clear difference the depth of the two teams that played last night.  Scottie Williams is clearly a GREAT back, but Elmhurst is just not ready to compete for 60 minutes with NCC.  NCC just has too much speed on both sides of the ball and it players like Scottie in check unless they are on a team like MU or UWW.

[Gregory Sager]

At the risk of rushing in where angels fear to tread, I can see both sides to this argument. I do not think that Langhorst Ghost has disrespected North Central in any way, nor even been so bold as to predict a victory, in Joe Namath fashion, for his 'jays over the Cardinals. On the other hand, he has badgered 79JB for what he considers to be 79JB's negativity towards Elmhurst's chances of CCIW success (which most of us regulars recognize as 79JB's realism learned the hard way after years of his drinking the blue Kool-Ade to excess in this room). As CardinalAlum said, 79JB is a CCIW football room veteran who has earned the respect of the other regulars here over the years. I think that the ire CardinalAlum is directing at Langhorst Ghost may be in large part motivated by Ghost's running battle with 79JB, not with the actual outcome of the football game itself.

[CardinalAlum]

At the risk of rushing in where angels fear to tread, I can see both sides to this argument. I do not think that Langhorst Ghost has disrespected North Central in any way, nor even been so bold as to predict a victory, in Joe Namath fashion, for his 'jays over the Cardinals. On the other hand, he has badgered 79JB for what he considers to be 79JB's negativity towards Elmhurst's chances of CCIW success (which most of us regulars recognize as 79JB's realism learned the hard way after years of his drinking the blue Kool-Ade to excess in this room). As CardinalAlum said, 79JB is a CCIW football room veteran who has earned the respect of the other regulars here over the years. I think that the ire CardinalAlum is directing at Langhorst Ghost may be in large part motivated by Ghost's running battle with 79JB, not with the actual outcome of the football game itself.

Here endeth the lesson..... +K

[bluejay4ever]

Hey all, not trying to avoid anything just haven't jumped on. North central handled EC. I will take my medicine and congrats to them. North Central just executes so well. It's really difficult if you do not play at your best to beat them. Watching EC this year they rely in their strength of running the football. NC stopped that cold and there was No answer.

A very good team and again I'm prepared for my pounding.

9-1 still gets us in the dance! Still a believer no matter what you guys say.

Congrats again.

[bluejay4ever]

Hey, I get it. Elmhurst pays you to be a cheerleader but at least call a spade a spade.

CAlum, the boards are better than this ignorant comment. 

Make up your mind, classy or ignorant?   You stated all week that the Jays were ready and would take the next step.  I merely stated that they didn't.   As a former coach, you should know as well as anyone, that you have to back up the statements you make. 


(Modified by Titan Q for quote formatting)

Wow a paid cheerleader? Really. I have known Ghost for 15 years he has more respect for all CCIW schools then anyone I know. If you want to point the finger at anyone posting towards other schools point it at me. I say things sarcastically often such as the evil empire but it is done in fun. I think if you look at both of our history it is more about being pro blue jay and drinking the kool aid. Are you a good program, yes. Don't you think that is why we are on this board trying to talk smack before the game? If you guys were 1-9 each year it wouldn't be fun. Again as stated before, this board is for fun and talking smack and hoping you can come here Sunday and say told you so. That is respect if you ask me. I look forward to the day and soon when you are talking smack to us about trying to beat EC.

Looking forward to the rematch on the playoffs already! 

[Gregory Sager]

Hey, I get it. Elmhurst pays you to be a cheerleader but at least call a spade a spade.

CAlum, the boards are better than this ignorant comment. 

Make up your mind, classy or ignorant?   You stated all week that the Jays were ready and would take the next step.  I merely stated that they didn't.   As a former coach, you should know as well as anyone, that you have to back up the statements you make. 


(Modified by Titan Q for quote formatting)

Wow a paid cheerleader? Really. I have known Ghost for 15 years he has more respect for all CCIW schools then anyone I know. If you want to point the finger at anyone posting towards other schools point it at me. I say things sarcastically often such as the evil empire but it is done in fun. I think if you look at both of our history it is more about being pro blue jay and drinking the kool aid. Are you a good program, yes. Don't you think that is why we are on this board trying to talk smack before the game? If you guys were 1-9 each year it wouldn't be fun. Again as stated before, this board is for fun and talking smack and hoping you can come here Sunday and say told you so. That is respect if you ask me. I look forward to the day and soon when you are talking smack to us about trying to beat EC.

Looking forward to the rematch on the playoffs already! 

You totally have it wrong, bluejay4ever. It's not a smack-talking board at all, which makes me wonder if you really read it carefully or have read it for any length of time longer than the year for which you've been registered to post on d3boards.com.  It certainly explains why you've rubbed people the wrong way.

Yes, there's plenty of snark here (especially during Little Brass Bell week between the Wheaton guys and the North Central guys), but none of that we-can-whip-you-with-one-hand-tied-behind-our-back crap. The needling here is either focused upon past outcomes, or personal foibles, or institutional particulars. It's not about badmouthing the opposing team prior to the game, or premature bragging about your impending victory. It never has been, even back in the day when the board was dominated by guys like Titan Booster and the Mad Swede who were a lot more sarcasm-oriented than the current denizens. This room is about respecting your upcoming CCIW opponents, not talking smack about them ... and it's probably that way because many of the regular posters here over the years have been former players, and they understand much better than any casual fan how much work and sweat and belief goes into being a football player, and why you need as a fan to respect that, even if said football player wears a different-colored uniform than the team you root for.

Since they're both former players, I think that some of the respect that Cardinal Alum has for 79JB comes out of that. Also, as I said earlier, 79JB has been posting here for many years and has paid his dues and taken his lumps when Elmhurst football fell short of his glowing public expectations season after season. What you were reading from Cardinal Alum before the game was not smack. It was a simple, factual acknowledgment of the CCIW status quo, a status quo vis-a-vis NCC and Elmhurst that has quite a bit of history behind it now. And what you've read from him after the game was not taunting. It was a defense of that code of respect that I talked about ... and probably a little bit of contempt towards you because you don't seem to get what this room is all about and because you crossed the line by calling out 79JB like that.

Smack talk is for kids.

[Mugsy]

"Tale of the Tape" - Wheaton vs. Carthage

Records:
   Wheaton:   3-1, 1-0
   Carthage:   3-1, 1-0

Statistical Category	Wheaton	Carthage	Comment
Offense Scoring	42.8	25.8
Defense Scoring	10.8	14.8	Wheaton first in CCIW
Off Pass Efficiency	168.2	118.0	Carthage is last in CCIW
Off Pass Completion %	66.4	51.2
Off Pass YPG	294.5	203.2
Off Pass TD's	15	5	Wheaton 1st in CCIW
Off INT's	3	2
Def Pass Efficiency	87.3	101.7
Def Pass Completion %	50.9	55.6
Def Pass YPG	125.5	161.8
Pass TD's Allowed	2	1	Carthage tied for 1st in CCIW
Def INT's	4	6
Kick Return Ave	28.7	26.7
Punt Return Ave	4.3	14.1	Carthage 2nd in CCIW
Punting (Net)	42.0	28.2	Wheaton 10 punts & 1st in CCIW, Carthage 24 & last in CCIW
Turnover Margin	+5	+9	Carthage 1st in CCIW
Off Rush YPG	144.2	118.8	Wheaton 6th, Carthage last in CCIW
Off Yards Per Carry	3.9	4.1
Off Rush TD's	7	4	Carthage last in CCIW
Def Rush YPG	112.0	154.8
Def Yards Per Carry	2.9	3.2
Def Rush TD's Allowed	4	6
Total Offense	438.3	322.0
Total Defense	237.5	316.5
Sacks By	11	14	Carthage 1st in CCIW, Wheaton 2nd
Sacks Allowed	11	4	Wheaton: 140 pass attempts, Carthage: 121
1st Downs	96	55	Wheaton 1st in CCIW, Carthage last
1st Downs Allowed	59	77
Penalty YPG	43.2	72.8
Red Zone Offense	76.2	78.6	Wheaton 15 TDs, 1 FG : Carthage 5 TDs, 6 FG's
Red Zone Defense	63.6	62.5
Off 3rd Down Conv %	51.9	25.5	Wheaton 2nd in CCIW, Carthage 7th
Opp 3rd Down Conv %	24.1	33.9	Wheaton 1st in CCIW
Field Goals	1 of 5	8 of 12
PAT's	22 of 23	11 of 11
Time of Pos	29:37	24:20

[79jaybird]

Great atmosphere at B-W Saturday.  Would have liked to have seen a different result, however the game/result itself was not surprising.  I have seen good Elmhurst teams struggle to compete against the 1-2 slot teams over the years.  They ARE much improved from 7-8 years ago, but indeed are not there yet. 
Thoughts-
A) Scotty Williams is one of the best backs in the country, however this game was decided by Elmhurst's lack of a 2nd and 3rd option offensively.  (Credit coaching and Defensive play by NC). They knew how to contain (not stop entirely), but contain Scotty and force Elmhurst into passing or looking at other options.  NC has seen great backs before b/c of their playoff experience (and coaching).  Elmhurst is still an "infant" in the big boys class and when the running game was not there, well that's why you saw a lot of 3rd down failures.

B) Quite simply, NC when "on", operates at a high level that very few CCIW teams can match right now.  It is a playoff conditioned, well coached, team with players executing.  Furthermore, their depth and knowledge reminds me a of (Manning or Rodgers) where there keen wisdowm recognizes defensive schemes and makes adjustments on the ball.

C) Elmhurst is getting there but they are not there yet.  The score is not as disappointing as much as the appearance that Elmhurst doesn't know (perhaps coaching?) how to make adjustments when the score is still close? This game was still within shouting distance where if Elmhurst perhaps may have made a few adjustments, the outcomes may have had a different storyline.

D) If you are Elmhurst you have to look at this game as a measuring stick.  This is where NC is and will be until somebody dethrones them. (Which IMO won't be this year).  The level of play NC is achieving is where you WANT to be.  That is a long term goal.  Initially, I would look at IWU/Wheaton (and Millikin assuming Sat was not just a 1 hit wonder), and say this is a short term goal, achievable this year.

E) Elmhurst has to find a way to protect the QB better and be able to convert 3rd downs to win the close games.  This has been an achilles heel for us, dating back to when I played.  When the primary call is not there, Elmhurst struggles to convert plan B.

Ok,  just my few cents and feedback from an otherwise beautiful night in Naperville.

[79jaybird]

Right now I would place the CCIW at:

NORTH CENTRAL
IWU
WHEATON
MILLIKIN/ELMHURST/CARTHAGE

I think 1 and 2 are beginning to show signs of pulling away from the pack, but you never know. It's only 1 week and a lot can happen.  Injuries too, can make life difficult if/when they occur.