FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[USee]

On that note, do you think perhaps the CCIW (may) gets only 1 team into the dance this year, the AQ/champion?

The only chance we have at 2 slots is if IWU finishes as runner  up at 9-1 to either NCC or Wheato at 9-1.  The loser of NCC v Wheaton is done and if IWU loses to those two they are done.  Of course elmhurst could go as a runner up if they win out.

[Pat Coleman]

To answer cranky old man And One from this morning: I don't believe there is any scoring margin against North Park that will impress voters. They know how long it has been since North Park won a conference game.

[AndOne]

Many have been trying to reconcile the Wheaton that lost @ Albion with the Thunder team that has steamrolled everyone since. Is it a different Wheaton team or just weaker opponents? Since Albion subsequently lost to Benedictine (whom Wheaton dismantled in week 1 does that give credence to "The CCIW is weaker..." argument? Consider the fact that Wheaton lost @Albion while scoring 21 pts (zero in the second half), netting only 15 first downs, giving up 8 sacks, accumulating just 248 yds offense (108 rush, 140 pass). They played without Mark Hiben, Nolan Randle, Charlie Velling, and Garret Meador. Every one of those players is back and each of them has contributed significantly in at least 1 of the 3 wins since. Hiben is one of the best WR in the country and each of these guys is a first team ALL CCIW performer (Substitute Roberts for Meador if you want, result is the same). The proof is in the numbers. Averaging 561 yds per game, 48 pts per game, almost 29 1st downs a game, and haven't given up 8 sacks combined since that week 2 debacle.

I don't know how good Elmhurst is on defense, but it doesn't appear they are appreciably better than Carthage. I definitely know if the game is close Scottie Williams will be running wild. So Wheaton has to use some of their new found kerosene on offense to build an early lead on Elmhurst (ala NCC) so that running SW is less of an option. If this is a close game in the 4th, it may be that the last team with the ball wins.

If this is a close game in the 4th then either Wheaton really has royally screwed up or Elmhurst has played a fabulous game--or both.
As the saying goes, you have to play the game, but on paper, this game should be rather one-sided.

[Gregory Sager]

What if the Weenies had beaten NP 77-7 instead of 44-7? Would that have been enough to enable an undefeated team to maintain the same position in the poll? Are teams, in effect, penalized for not running up an astronomical score against a much weaker opponent?

Wesleyan wasn't on a pace to come anywhere close to 77 points against NPU on Saturday. Even if Norm Eash had left in his starters for the entire fourth quarter, the Titans likely would've ended the game somewhere in the fifties, for what that's worth. Wesleyan was good, but nowhere near 77-7 good. And NPU was bad, but nowhere near 77-7 bad.

[NCF]

Many have been trying to reconcile the Wheaton that lost @ Albion with the Thunder team that has steamrolled everyone since. Is it a different Wheaton team or just weaker opponents? Since Albion subsequently lost to Benedictine (whom Wheaton dismantled in week 1 does that give credence to "The CCIW is weaker..." argument? Consider the fact that Wheaton lost @Albion while scoring 21 pts (zero in the second half), netting only 15 first downs, giving up 8 sacks, accumulating just 248 yds offense (108 rush, 140 pass). They played without Mark Hiben, Nolan Randle, Charlie Velling, and Garret Meador. Every one of those players is back and each of them has contributed significantly in at least 1 of the 3 wins since. Hiben is one of the best WR in the country and each of these guys is a first team ALL CCIW performer (Substitute Roberts for Meador if you want, result is the same). The proof is in the numbers. Averaging 561 yds per game, 48 pts per game, almost 29 1st downs a game, and haven't given up 8 sacks combined since that week 2 debacle.

I don't know how good Elmhurst is on defense, but it doesn't appear they are appreciably better than Carthage. I definitely know if the game is close Scottie Williams will be running wild. So Wheaton has to use some of their new found kerosene on offense to build an early lead on Elmhurst (ala NCC) so that running SW is less of an option. If this is a close game in the 4th, it may be that the last team with the ball wins.

NC is not the same team now than they wew against UWL. I don't think we'll know the "real" IWU, NC or Wheaton until after they play each other. IMHO the conference has to start scheduling stronger non-conf. opponents. Beating up on teams with non winning records does not help the CCIW's image or prepare a team for the post season.

Losing to teams like UWL and Albion is much more detrimental to preparing you for the post season as it ensures that the loser of the NCC/Wheaton game won't make it to the playoffs.

Beating up on weak teams doesn't help either and since week 1, NC knew they'd have to win out to get to the play-offs. First things first, they have NP, Carthage and IWU before the Wheaton showdown. I thought Elmhurst might surprise someone, but I'm not so sure that will happen.

[USee]

The facts seem to differ with your opinion.  I don't know what you consider as a weak team but IWU is going to the playoffs even of they lose to either NCC or Wheaton. Losing a non conference game is the fastest way to end your season in early November.  NCC has lost a non conference game in 5 of the last 7 years and it has hurt them.  Their Redlands loss last year was critical as they played @wabash vs home.  I don't see a lot of success stories built on the "tougher non conference games" theory.  When you play in a league as tough as the CCIW you are prepared for the post season. 

[NCF]

The facts seem to differ with your opinion.  I don't know what you consider as a weak team but IWU is going to the playoffs even of they lose to either NCC or Wheaton. Losing a non conference game is the fastest way to end your season in early November.  NCC has lost a non conference game in 5 of the last 7 years and it has hurt them.  Their Redlands loss last year was critical as they played @wabash vs home.  I don't see a lot of success stories built on the "tougher non conference games" theory.  When you play in a league as tough as the CCIW you are prepared for the post season.

You're  assuming IWU beats at least one, they could lose to both. This season is shaping up to be exciting, because anything can happen on any given Saturday. Playing @Wabash was NOT the reason NC lost. The CCIW just dropped from 5th to 7th in the conf. rankings, so maybe not as tough as it used to be.  Weak teams-too many to list.

[Gregory Sager]

Beating up on weak teams doesn't help either and since week 1, NC knew they'd have to win out to get to the play-offs. First things first, they have NP, Carthage and IWU before the Wheaton showdown.

Even if you put aside the obvious disparity between NPU and North Central in terms of talent, the fact that the Vikings are so banged up right now (especially with Krebs and Barnabee out) leads me to believe that you needn't have even bothered putting NPU on that pre-Wheaton list, NCF. I'll be very surprised -- happy, but very surprised -- if NPU is anywhere within shouting distance of the Cardinals at halftime. This is a game that could end up with a 77-7 final.

I just hope that the Vikings get out of the game without any serious injuries. I wouldn't be surprised if NPU is already looking ahead to Augie, which comes to Hedstrand Field a week from Saturday. As for the next game, however, the final score will be whatever John Thorne wants it to be. We'll see what sort of quality of mercy he offers on Saturday at Hedstrand.

[Mr. Ypsi]

The facts seem to differ with your opinion.  I don't know what you consider as a weak team but IWU is going to the playoffs even of they lose to either NCC or Wheaton. Losing a non conference game is the fastest way to end your season in early November.  NCC has lost a non conference game in 5 of the last 7 years and it has hurt them.  Their Redlands loss last year was critical as they played @wabash vs home.  I don't see a lot of success stories built on the "tougher non conference games" theory.  When you play in a league as tough as the CCIW you are prepared for the post season.

You're  assuming IWU beats at least one, they could lose to both. This season is shaping up to be exciting, because anything can happen on any given Saturday. Playing @Wabash was NOT the reason NC lost. The CCIW just dropped from 5th to 7th in the conf. rankings, so maybe not as tough as it used to be.  Weak teams-too many to list.

I thought USee was quite clear in implying that IWU had to win one of the two.  Also, don't automatically assume that two losses is totally the 'kiss of death' - last year the committee took 2-loss St. John Fisher over some 1-loss teams, and was made to look good when they won two games (just like Wheaton vindicated the selection of a 2-loss team a few years ago by going all the way to the final four).

[newparker]

Greg what is going on with np I've been out of town for a few and am really surprised by some of the scores.  i understand missing krebs but is the other qb that far behind him  and yes barnabee is good but doesn't seem he was being used that much as last year understand hes used different but we don't have any good backups,  why doesn't it seem like their fb is not used much as he was last year, and he is one tough kid  I thought this year would see a little bit better play after last year but are we going backwards which is a disappointment.   I hope they arent looking to augustana cause not sure they can beat them.  I hope they at least show something against ncc since last year they lost 35-0 which I'm sure was most 2nd string, probably will be the same this year bust last year we had possession 37:57 to 22:00.  I don't understand what happened to those guys that were close in a few games like carthage last year and this year doesn't seem like the same ones,.   is it we just don't have athletes since it doesn't seem we have many freshman brought in or is it the coaching.  Is it true that np cancel all their jv games   I know they had jv games i think the last three years I think that may help us

[Mugsy]

Going back to the incredible level of QB play in the CCIW, here are the D3 national ranking on passing efficiency:

Rank   Player                                  Pos   Cl  Gm  Patt   Pcomp Comppct  Int  Intpct   Pyds   Ydspatt  TDs  TDpct  Rating
#3   Jordan Roberts, Wheaton (IL)      QB   JR   5    120     92      76.67     1     .83     1065     8.88     16    13.33   193.55
#10   Matt Holmes, Millikin                 QB   SR  5    108     73      67.59     3     2.78    1005     9.31     13    12.04   179.93
#16   Rob Gallik, Ill. Wesleyan             QB   JR  5    135     93      68.89     5     3.70    1181     8.75     13     9.63   166.74
#47   Spencer Stanek, North Central   QB   JR   5    121     73      60.33     4     3.31    1068     8.83      7     5.79    146.95

[CardinalAlum]

The facts seem to differ with your opinion.  I don't know what you consider as a weak team but IWU is going to the playoffs even of they lose to either NCC or Wheaton. Losing a non conference game is the fastest way to end your season in early November.  NCC has lost a non conference game in 5 of the last 7 years and it has hurt them.  Their Redlands loss last year was critical as they played @wabash vs home.  I don't see a lot of success stories built on the "tougher non conference games" theory.  When you play in a league as tough as the CCIW you are prepared for the post season.

Completely agree w USee.   I'm not sold on the tough non conference slate as I once was.  Playing in the CCIW, you're not going to run the table every year.   Not saying you're not going to win some of those tough non conference games, but if we would've beat up on, say two average teams, instead of losing to an above average UWL, we are ranked in the top three right now and in real good shape to make the playoffs if we were to split with the Weenie/Wheatie twosome worst case.   Franklin plays a psychotic schedule, has no room for error and will undoubtedly go on the road for their playoff games if they run the schedule in the conference.   Where's the reward?

[NCF]

Beating up on weak teams doesn't help either and since week 1, NC knew they'd have to win out to get to the play-offs. First things first, they have NP, Carthage and IWU before the Wheaton showdown.

Even if you put aside the obvious disparity between NPU and North Central in terms of talent, the fact that the Vikings are so banged up right now (especially with Krebs and Barnabee out) leads me to believe that you needn't have even bothered putting NPU on that pre-Wheaton list, NCF. I'll be very surprised -- happy, but very surprised -- if NPU is anywhere within shouting distance of the Cardinals at halftime. This is a game that could end up with a 77-7 final.

I just hope that the Vikings get out of the game without any serious injuries. I wouldn't be surprised if NPU is already looking ahead to Augie, which comes to Hedstrand Field a week from Saturday. As for the next game, however, the final score will be whatever John Thorne wants it to be. We'll see what sort of quality of mercy he offers on Saturday at Hedstrand.

You still have to play each game and the next game on NC's schedule is NP. I would like to think that Thorne doesn't run up the score in this game.

[Mr. Ypsi]

The facts seem to differ with your opinion.  I don't know what you consider as a weak team but IWU is going to the playoffs even of they lose to either NCC or Wheaton. Losing a non conference game is the fastest way to end your season in early November.  NCC has lost a non conference game in 5 of the last 7 years and it has hurt them.  Their Redlands loss last year was critical as they played @wabash vs home.  I don't see a lot of success stories built on the "tougher non conference games" theory.  When you play in a league as tough as the CCIW you are prepared for the post season.

You're  assuming IWU beats at least one, they could lose to both. This season is shaping up to be exciting, because anything can happen on any given Saturday. Playing @Wabash was NOT the reason NC lost. The CCIW just dropped from 5th to 7th in the conf. rankings, so maybe not as tough as it used to be.  Weak teams-too many to list.

I find it quite an easy listing: Augie and North Park (and they would still compete for the title in some d3 conferences).  Elmhurst, Carthage, and Millikin may not be fully competitive for the CCIW title, but they were collectively 8-1 non-conference.

[Gregory Sager]

Greg what is going on with np I've been out of town for a few and am really surprised by some of the scores.

NPU just doesn't have the athletes. Experience matters, and NPU has more of that than it has had in the past, but there is no substitute for raw talent. There never is. Far more than any other element, talent is what wins games. NPU just doesn't have enough of it in comparison to the other teams in the league. The Vikings play hard, and they give it everything they have, but the team speed just isn't there -- and neither is the CCIW-quality depth.

i understand missing krebs but is the other qb that far behind him

Why ask me a question for which you already know the answer? What happened last Saturday speaks for itself. Williams may yet come out of that game a better QB for having learned some things the hard way against Wesleyan, but it really won't be enough to make much of a difference against NCC.

and yes barnabee is good but doesn't seem he was being used that much as last year understand hes used different but we don't have any good backups,  why doesn't it seem like their fb is not used much as he was last year, and he is one tough kid

You have to go with what works best, and to this point Krebs's running has been what has worked best for NPU. It's not as though Hassan has had a dramatically lighter work load than last year. At this point in the season in 2011 he had carried the ball 64 times. This year he's carried it 57 times thus far. That's a difference of only a carry and a half per game. It's a long season, and you have to pace your workhorse. I'd rather have Hassan make it to the end of the season than have him carry the ball 25 times a game in the season's first half and have him become an early injury casualty out of overuse.

I thought this year would see a little bit better play after last year but are we going backwards which is a disappointment.

Well, how do you think I feel? I'm the one who calls the game. Aside from the coaches and players, nobody wants to see NPU win more than I do. It's painful to have to webcast a 44-7 loss, and I fear that the loss this coming Saturday will be much worse than that. I strongly believe that our Vikings deserve better, but, to quote Clint Eastwood in The Unforgiven, "Deserve's got nothing to do with it."

I hope they arent looking to augustana cause not sure they can beat them.

Of course nobody's sure of that. Augie came within an eyelash of beating a pretty good Elmhurst team last Saturday. But the Augie game is the one in which NPU has the best shot at a CCIW win this year. We thought before the season that Carthage and Augie were the two best chances ... and we've already seen what happened when NPU met Carthage.

I hope they at least show something against ncc since last year they lost 35-0 which I'm sure was most 2nd string, probably will be the same this year bust last year we had possession 37:57 to 22:00.

Time of possession is a meaningless statistic. Put it out of your mind. Yes, NPU keeps the ball for a long time, because that's what an option offense (i.e., a run-dominated offense) will do. But if you can't score, what good is time of possession? And if you can't stop the other team from scoring, what good is time of possession? There's no point to looking for moral victories where none exist.

I don't understand what happened to those guys that were close in a few games like carthage last year and this year doesn't seem like the same ones,.   is it we just don't have athletes since it doesn't seem we have many freshman brought in or is it the coaching.

Freshmen have nothing to do with this season's disappointments. You don't win by playing freshman, no matter how athletic they may be. Nobody knows that better than NPU fans, since we've spent so many seasons watching the Vikings put huge batches of freshmen on the field in varsity games out of necessity.

NPU had a rough year of recruiting, but you can't pin that only on the football coaching staff. After setting the school record last year for new-student enrollment, NPU fell 65 students short this year of the goal set by the admissions department. Not all of that shortfall consists of football-player slots. I don't think that even most of them are football-player slots.

The NPU coaching staff makes do with what it can in the midst of a disheartening set of circumstances beyond anyone's control, some innate to the institution and some the product of a lamentable history on the field -- a set of circumstances that would make most coaches refuse to even think about working in that kind of situation. The NPU football coaching staff wants to make something out of nothing, and works very hard at it ... and I find that very, very admirable. I respect Scott Pethtel and his assistants. You'll never hear me badmouth them.

Anyone who thinks he can do better has never tried to push a boulder up a hill before.

I would like to think that Thorne doesn't run up the score in this game.

We'll see. NPU is completely at his mercy, and that sucks in more ways than I can count.