FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[bluejay4ever]

It is so great that we can actually talk the "noise" we are. If everyone remembers I posted after the NC game I was here to take my medicine. Jaybird you say you want to take it week by week, but that was my original point that you automatically gave wins and losses the remaining year and put the jays is 3rd. I have said repeatedly that every week is a tough game in the CCIW. There are no automatic wins. If you don't play your best you will not only lose but get embarrassed. That goes for EC against NC or NC against Wheaton, or plug any other two teams in there. Right now I'm going to say EC will run the table, IWU will beat NC and EC will beat IWU. Until the games are actually played and the results are in we just don't know.

It's so funny as when I played NC and EC played for last place. It's just nice to see that special things are happening.

[Gregory Sager]

Thanks, Kovo86! Much appreciated.

[Mugsy]

All this discussion around where Elmhurst sits is somewhat noise if you ask me.  Right now (and as in the past 6 years) it is NCC, then everyone else is some order or another, with the "top of the rest" fighting for "Pool C" considerations.
Until someone finds a way to beat NCC in conference, which there hasn't been a close game against them in conference in 20+ games, it is a moot point.

With all due respect Mugsy (and i cartainly do respect your insight on the boards), by this rationale, anyone not wearing Cardinal Red should just kneel at the feet of Coach Thorne and the birds from Benedetti and cash in all our blue, green, or whatever colored chips.  This is never going to happen.  So NCC is dominant...great, congrats to them...does that then disqualify fans of other programs from rooting loud and proud for their respective teams - i sure as hell hope not. 

If even entertaining the idea that anyone but NCC winning is simply a "moot point" (as you put it), why then, do we even bother with this chatboard nonsense?  Maybe we should just let the Cardinal posters banter back and forth and let them pat each other on the backs week in and week out - they can high five eachother and talk about all the trophies on display down in Naperville.  And you know what - they have every right to do that if they choose, they've earned it.  NCC is the class of the conference, this we all accept, and no one (not even the "kool-aid" drinking EC fans) disputes their achievements or their reputation - but there is ZERO chance of me conceeding any game in this conference to any opponent because of the logo on their helmet or the numbers of banners hanging in their locker room.

As long as its respectful, thoughtful, stays above the belt, and doesn't aim to degrade another program - there is absolutely nothing wrong with whole-hearted, loud and proud support for your program - that's called being a fan. 

While I admire the fervor with which recent new Elmhurst posters are pulling for their program (to an extent that was me 20 years ago), I'm just a bit tired of all the bickering over something that at this point is speculative - "we're #2!"  Guess I'm use to a bit more objectivity and reason, over chest thumping.  Elmhurst was completely and utterly dismantled in every way by NCC (score 44-10, 550 yards to 190).  By that measuring stick Elmhurst is no where near the top yet.  Now the victory over Wheaton is a solid, meaningful win, but without winning out for the rest of the schedule it is somewhat "moot" - much like 1999 or 2008.  Sure be proud to be a BlueJay and celebrate the victory, but it is only a single step in the process.

Now that said, don't put words into my mouth!  The "rationale" you mention was never conveyed by me.  Even if a team were to win conference 20 years in a row I WILL NEVER, EVER concede it and just give up. But I will recognize who the top dog is, respect what they've done and do everything in my power to knock them off their "throne." 

You don't know it, but played during a time where Augustana absolutely ruled the D3 landscape and won 4 National Championships in a row.  I can't even remember how many CCIW games in row they won - 60-something?  Don't you dare imply that I came into Augie week defeated and with a mindset of "oh well, it is Augie and there is nothing we can do."  That is an insult.  During my 9 years at Wheaton (5 as a coach) our off season mantra and focus was on Augie.  My teammates and I trained 1000's of hours to defeat Augie, because if we did we knew we were good enough to win conference and do well in the playoffs.  That was our measuring stick.  Twice in my 4 years we gave Augie the best game they had all year, including the playoffs.  86' in particular where we lost 18-17 on the last play of the game on a very controversial play.  We finished those years 7-2 and 2nd in conference.  While a good season it didn't mean jack because we didn't reach our goal.  Finally in 1991 after a decade of improvement we beat Augie, won conference and went to the playoffs.  But if we beat Augie, but lost 2 other conference games it would have been somewhat meaningless.

I and many posters on this board have very meaningful perspective on recognizing and respecting who is the best team, but not cowering to them.  Quite honestly, I believe we have reached a point where there is no longer a "top-3 or 4 teams" and then the lower half of the CCIW.  With 20+ straight conference wins by greater than 20 points, 6 straight CCIW championships, there is a top team in the CCIW (North Central) and then there is the rest.  Until someone beats them that doesn't change.  That does not mean any CCIW team, from IWU down to NPU, doesn't lay it all out on the line to win each week and try to change the fact NCC has been the top dog.

I would recommend considering a bit more objectivity to recognize Elmhurst is improving, but by itself Saturday's win is just a key win over a Wheaton team with several concerning questions as to how good they are - noted by Wheaton fan's themselves.  Fan's who know the Wheaton squad better than anyone else.  Wheaton was 20th in the country based on what they've done the past decade or more and that they were 4-1 thus far in the season.  That does NOT make them the 20th best team in the country.

Couple of questions about Elmhurst brought up by several posters:
1. Do you honestly believe Elmhurst has arrived if in the games against perceived top tier teams they have left up an average of 37 points and nearly 575 yards?
2. Do you honestly believe Wheaton is a top contender for the CCIW this year?

[CardinalAlum]

.......we're #2....we're #2!!

Here's video of Mugsy and I. 



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CdZlsBFgcM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[Langhorst_Ghost]

I would recommend considering a bit more objectivity to recognize Elmhurst is improving

Mugsy, i recognize that you have thousands of posts on this internet chat board, and i respect that, but this is a division 3 fan chat room blogosphere, not the Chicago Tribune - we are fans.  Like i said - you may not agree with my perspective, but my support is always pro-Bluejay and never anti-Bluejay opponent, so just live and let live brother - what is the big deal?  Does it bother you that much that there is another voice in the conversation with full throttle and educated support for a traditionally under-represented program?  I hope not, cause i enjoy the friendly banter - keeps me connected to the memories and passion of my own CCIW experiences.

Bluejay fans are excited, and can you blame us?...we haven't had much to cheer about since long before i laced the cleats up myself many Novemebers past.  So just let us have our good, clean fun - and you know what - i invite you to do the same. 

In the end, you'll never be right or wrong, and neither will i, or any other passionate poster, because its not about right or wrong - its about being a fan.

Let's just all wear our respective colors and enjoy rooting for our respective teams - we all have at least one common thread...our love of CCIW football, can't we just champion our differences and embrace our common bond?  Like it or leave it, we are posting on this board for at least one similar reason - our passion for our respective teams' programs - yours just happens to have a lot more playoff apperances backing it up and some orange in the color scheme.

But to answer your questions:
1. Do you honestly believe Elmhurst has arrived if in the games against perceived top tier teams they have left up an average of 37 points and nearly 575 yards? - Yes.  Wins matter, not stats...and 9 gets you in to the dance.
2. Do you honestly believe Wheaton is a top contender for the CCIW this year?   Well, i sure hope so - we need them to beat a few more teams before this season is over.  Thunder are very talented.  Obviously Roberts is special, but Hiben's a stud and the O-lone is sturdy as always.  On D the big anchor Dykstra is a load at the zero technique, the backers are very active, and the two safeties, especially Cook, are physical.  They have holes, everyone does, but they've got the coaching and the talent to hang with anyone in the conference.

[Mugsy]

Now what was that Carthage poster from years ago?  Red_Bus?

[CardinalAlum]

Now what was that Carthage poster from years ago?  Red_Bus?

Yes!  Good call!   My favorite is still the Elmhurst secondary coach posting on here a few years back complaining about all conference picks and then denying he was a coach!   

Memories.......

Mad Swede...where are you???

[izzy stradlin]

I would recommend considering a bit more objectivity to recognize Elmhurst is improving

Mugsy, i recognize that you have thousands of posts on this internet chat board, and i respect that, but this is a division 3 fan chat room blogosphere, not the Chicago Tribune - we are fans.  Like i said - you may not agree with my perspective, but my support is always pro-Bluejay and never anti-Bluejay opponent, so just live and let live brother - what is the big deal?  Does it bother you that much that there is another voice in the conversation with full throttle and educated support for a traditionally under-represented program?  I hope not, cause i enjoy the friendly banter - keeps me connected to the memories and passion of my own CCIW experiences.

Bluejay fans are excited, and can you blame us?...we haven't had much to cheer about since long before i laced the cleats up myself many Novemebers past.  So just let us have our good, clean fun - and you know what - i invite you to do the same. 

In the end, you'll never be right or wrong, and neither will i, or any other passionate poster, because its not about right or wrong - its about being a fan.

Let's just all wear our respective colors and enjoy rooting for our respective teams - we all have at least one common thread...our love of CCIW football, can't we just champion our differences and embrace our common bond?  Like it or leave it, we are posting on this board for at least one similar reason - our passion for our respective teams' programs - yours just happens to have a lot more playoff apperances backing it up and some orange in the color scheme.

But to answer your questions:
1. Do you honestly believe Elmhurst has arrived if in the games against perceived top tier teams they have left up an average of 37 points and nearly 575 yards? - Yes.  Wins matter, not stats...and 9 gets you in to the dance.
2. Do you honestly believe Wheaton is a top contender for the CCIW this year?   Well, i sure hope so - we need them to beat a few more teams before this season is over.  Thunder are very talented.  Obviously Roberts is special, but Hiben's a stud and the O-lone is sturdy as always.  On D the big anchor Dykstra is a load at the zero technique, the backers are very active, and the two safeties, especially Cook, are physical.  They have holes, everyone does, but they've got the coaching and the talent to hang with anyone in the conference.

I say get excited, Elmhurst.  You're 5-1 with 4 games remaining and your biggest challenge comes at home. If I had to make a prediction, I don't think Elmhurst wins out, but they should be optimistic and excited.  Forget about all these tiers.     

Wheaton is a CCIW contender every year (as much as any team can be a contender to NCC lately).  They have finished in the top 3 of the CCIW in every year of the D3football.com era. There have been a few years where Wheaton has had 2 or 3 conference loses, but it doesn't mean the team is down in those years, it just means they lost an extra game or two. A football season is not a scientific sample and the results are only moderately repeatable. Play the same season over and the results are easily different in the reasonably close games. 

LG, I think your assessment of Wheaton is accurate.  With a healthy, Hiben, Roberts, Velling and Randall at OT, this is the best offense they've had in years.  Defense isn't as strong as the offense, but not bad.   I personally don't like the 3-4 and the way they use personnel in it to stop the run, but that's not changing at this point.   

[79jaybird]

The biggest difference with me from year's past is I look at Elmhurst (now) without the blue (kool-aid laden) goggles.  I have seen 3 games up to this point and while much improved from when L-Ghost and I played,  would hesitate to put them in 1 or 2 slot.  Beginning of the year, I had them 4th/5th.  So for me to say IMO I think they are 3rd, well that is a step up.  I took off the kool-aid goggles a few years back, because I wore those goggles for so many years, only to get ____ 6-4 at best. 

Somebody said, "Do you think Wheaton is a top tier team?"  I love Coach Swider but I would say presently they are not a top tier team.  Good yes. Great well some inconsistencies make me wonder?

If I'm Elmhurst, I don't look at the next big game being IWU.  You have 2 big time roadies starting with Millikin who (ask IWU) is no easy W, especially at Lindsay.

Look- I'm all in favor of my Alma Mater getting some looks and great to see W's coming more frequently, but BE REALISTIC and BE TRUTHFUL based on the existing "conditions" we see. 

[NCF]

Very touching tribute to IWU's Andrew Weishar
http://southtownstar.suntimes.com/15767811-522/ex-brother-rice-star-21-was-a-beautiful-human-being.html

[Mugsy]

I would recommend considering a bit more objectivity to recognize Elmhurst is improving

Mugsy, i recognize that you have thousands of posts on this internet chat board, and i respect that, but this is a division 3 fan chat room blogosphere, not the Chicago Tribune - we are fans.  Like i said - you may not agree with my perspective, but my support is always pro-Bluejay and never anti-Bluejay opponent, so just live and let live brother - what is the big deal?  Does it bother you that much that there is another voice in the conversation with full throttle and educated support for a traditionally under-represented program?  I hope not, cause i enjoy the friendly banter - keeps me connected to the memories and passion of my own CCIW experiences.

Bluejay fans are excited, and can you blame us?...we haven't had much to cheer about since long before i laced the cleats up myself many Novemebers past.  So just let us have our good, clean fun - and you know what - i invite you to do the same. 

In the end, you'll never be right or wrong, and neither will i, or any other passionate poster, because its not about right or wrong - its about being a fan.

Let's just all wear our respective colors and enjoy rooting for our respective teams - we all have at least one common thread...our love of CCIW football, can't we just champion our differences and embrace our common bond?  Like it or leave it, we are posting on this board for at least one similar reason - our passion for our respective teams' programs - yours just happens to have a lot more playoff apperances backing it up and some orange in the color scheme.

But to answer your questions:
1. Do you honestly believe Elmhurst has arrived if in the games against perceived top tier teams they have left up an average of 37 points and nearly 575 yards? - Yes.  Wins matter, not stats...and 9 gets you in to the dance.
2. Do you honestly believe Wheaton is a top contender for the CCIW this year?   Well, i sure hope so - we need them to beat a few more teams before this season is over.  Thunder are very talented.  Obviously Roberts is special, but Hiben's a stud and the O-lone is sturdy as always.  On D the big anchor Dykstra is a load at the zero technique, the bakers are very active, and the two safeties, especially Cook, are physical.  They have holes, everyone does, but they've got the coaching and the talent to hang with anyone in the conference.

Yup. You can post whatever you want, provided it is within the board rules set by D3Football.com.  Should provide for some interesting dialog.

Elmhurst offense better not have an off day because the D won't carry them.

[79jaybird]

People can post whatever they want indeed, and unfortunately when (X) school has success,  the (X) "otherwise unknown" posters come out with their pom-pons basically just cheerleading. And no L-Ghost this is not directed at you.  However, those posters (i.e. Mugsy, Greg, Usee, Titan Q, myself etc.) who have been around a long time, seen the highs & lows of their schools, are the ones to really pay attention to.  Their content is always much more wise (for lack of a better word) than the rest.

Agreed, that Elmhurst will be able to score points on most teams.  Scotty is one of the best backs in the country.  The variable is their defense which has been just strong enough not to break and cost them defeats (i.e. Augie/Wheaton).  Giving up big time offense consistently can wear down a team very fast. 

[matblake]

Gotta say that Wheaton is not a top tier team.  Haven't been since 2010. 

Red Bus, oh my goodness, I had forgotten all about that poster. 

The Mad Swede is still around, but prefers more docile activities now. 

Good win, Elmhurst.  These posts do remind me of the "rising period" of NCC.  There is nothing wrong with being joyful at wins.  Just be careful or you'll end up like this guy.   

[matblake]

Just wanted to say that it's good to be back on the boards.  Mrs. matblake did a stint in the hospital so I was incognito for a while. 

jaybird79, you ever going to mention me as a guy who's been around for a long time?   

[Mugsy]

Lost in all "the noise" is the game last Saturday in Rock Island.  Could someone please shed some light as to what happened?

The Augie team I watched against Wheaton didn't look capable of winning more than 2 conference games at most.  On the flipside Millikin looked to be a surprise team after taking IWU to overtime.