FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[79jaybird]

went on a sales call today in NW Indiana. After the business chatter, the social part of the meet was talking about colleges. The subject of the Monon Bell came up and when I talked in length about my D-III experiences,  had a great result.  Don't know if getting the PO was a result of the D-III discussion but I'm sure it helped. 

[emma17]

**While all the noise has been generated by Elmhurst and Wheaton posters,  what does NC and IWU (if they get the Pool C) have to do to get past the 2nd or 3rd rounds this year?  Seems like we have just not been able to get over the "hump" lately in the post season?  I have my thoughts, but want to hear what the choir thinks?

Apart from not running into a purple team or imploding in the second half, I think the Wheaton posters could answer this best, as they have gone the deepest in the playoffs in recent memory.

I'm always surprised to see the "purple team" reference when talking about the CCIW advancing- at least when it comes to NCC.  No offense to Wheaton, I simply haven't seen them first hand when they were making playoff runs- and I realize Mt has been their roadblock.  IMO you absolutely need a great defense first and foremost- and NCC was ready for either purple team in 2010- it's not like UWW dominated the playoff game.  I felt the NCC defense was tougher than Mt in 2010.  Last year, come on now- NCC was in perfect position to get to the next round vs. Mt- and certainly if you watched the Stagg you didn't see a Mt offense that NCC couldn't have played tough against.  If I was a NCC fan, I'd welcome a showdown with Mt.  Mt. is great and deserving of their ranking, but they simply do not face teams that have the speed and ability that NCC has on defense- or in the running game that NCC has.
Fans on this site know the problem with Wheaton this year- as said above, you better have the defense.  I'm not sure about IWU's defense- if it's great, then they have a shot as well.     

[Mugsy]

"Tale of the Tape" - Wheaton vs. Illinois Wesleyan

Records:
   Wheaton:        4-2, 2-1
   IWU:              6-0, 3-0

Stats from CCIW games only.

Statistical Category	Wheaton	IWU	Comment
Offense Scoring	41.0	41.0
Defense Scoring	17.3	15.7	IWU #1 in CCIW
Off Pass Efficiency	181.0	160.4	Wheaton #1 in CCIW
Off Pass Completion %	70.5	69.9	Wheaton #1 in CCIW, IWU #2
Off Pass YPG	370.7	245.0	Wheaton #1 in CCIW, IWU #2
Off Pass TD's	11	8
Off INT's	3	2
Def Pass Efficiency	85.1	125.2	Wheaton #1 in CCIW
Def Pass Completion %	41.2	60.3	Wheaton #1 in CCIW
Def Pass YPG	108.3	146.3	Wheaton #1 in CCIW, IWU #2
Pass TD's Allowed	2	5
Def INT's	2	3
Kick Return Ave	26.7	21.1
Punt Return Ave	5.1	14.4	IWU #2 in CCIW, Wheaton #7
Punting Net	30.0	26.5	Wheaton 5 punts, IWU 11
Turnover Margin	-2	+4
Off Rush YPG	202.3	171.7
Off Yards Per Carry	4.9	4.8
Off Rush TD's	4	8
Def Rush YPG	151.0	138.7
Def Yards Per Carry	3.9	3.4
Def Rush TD's Allowed	4	1
Total Offense	573.0	416.7	Wheaton #1 in CCIW, IWU #3
Total Defense	259.3	285.0	Wheaton #1 in CCIW, IWU #3
Sacks By	6	7
Sacks Allowed	8	3	Wheaton: 112 pass attempts, IWU: 93
1st Downs	81	66
1st Downs Allowed	44	42
Penalty YPG	56.7	60.0
Red Zone Offense	73.3	82.4	Wheaton 8 TDs, 3 FG's : IWU 12 TDs, 2 FG's
Red Zone Defense	60.0	55.6
Off 3rd Down Conv %	55.8	59.5
Opp 3rd Down Conv %	13.2	31.8
Field Goals	4 of 5	2 of 3
PAT's	15 of 15	15 of 17
Time of Pos	33:10	30:23

[USee]

For these CCIW games IWU has played millikin north park and Carthage.  Wheaton has played Augie Carthage and elmhurst.

[NCF]

**While all the noise has been generated by Elmhurst and Wheaton posters,  what does NC and IWU (if they get the Pool C) have to do to get past the 2nd or 3rd rounds this year?  Seems like we have just not been able to get over the "hump" lately in the post season?  I have my thoughts, but want to hear what the choir thinks?

Apart from not running into a purple team or imploding in the second half, I think the Wheaton posters could answer this best, as they have gone the deepest in the playoffs in recent memory.

I'm always surprised to see the "purple team" reference when talking about the CCIW advancing- at least when it comes to NCC.  No offense to Wheaton, I simply haven't seen them first hand when they were making playoff runs- and I realize Mt has been their roadblock.  IMO you absolutely need a great defense first and foremost- and NCC was ready for either purple team in 2010- it's not like UWW dominated the playoff game.  I felt the NCC defense was tougher than Mt in 2010.  Last year, come on now- NCC was in perfect position to get to the next round vs. Mt- and certainly if you watched the Stagg you didn't see a Mt offense that NCC couldn't have played tough against.  If I was a NCC fan, I'd welcome a showdown with Mt.  Mt. is great and deserving of their ranking, but they simply do not face teams that have the speed and ability that NCC has on defense- or in the running game that NCC has.
Fans on this site know the problem with Wheaton this year- as said above, you better have the defense.  I'm not sure about IWU's defense- if it's great, then they have a shot as well.   

I agree, last year was a great blown opportunity to advance. If they take care of business in the next four weeks, I think they have as good a chance as anyone this year to make a deep play-off run. The returning players still have a bitter taste in their mouth from that season ending loss at Wabash last year. Hopefully, that will be enough motivation to finish what they've tried to do since 2010.

[CardinalAlum]

I'm going on the record that the Wheaties put everything together this week and knock off the Weenies.   Wheaton is too well coached not to bounce back after a disappointing loss.  Granted, Norm is also a great coach, but I'm going with a gut feeling here.  Every game is a must win for Wheaton and they will be fighting the rest of the way.   Considering a trip to Carthage as I've never been there for a night game.  We shall see. 

[NCF]

I'm going on the record that the Wheaties put everything together this week and knock off the Weenies.   Wheaton is too well coached not to bounce back after a disappointing loss.  Granted, Norm is also a great coach, but I'm going with a gut feeling here.  Every game is a must win for Wheaton and they will be fighting the rest of the way.   Considering a trip to Carthage as I've never been there for a night game.  We shall see.

It's a great atmosphere up there, especially with the updates to the stadium. Carthage always plays us tough at their place, so you might enjoy the trip.

[matblake]

I'm going on the record that the Wheaties put everything together this week and knock off the Weenies.   Wheaton is too well coached not to bounce back after a disappointing loss.  Granted, Norm is also a great coach, but I'm going with a gut feeling here.  Every game is a must win for Wheaton and they will be fighting the rest of the way.   Considering a trip to Carthage as I've never been there for a night game.  We shall see.

It's a great atmosphere up there, especially with the updates to the stadium. Carthage always plays us tough at their place, so you might enjoy the trip.

At this point (still a little early), the forecast looks to be clear and about 42 degrees.  As long as it's not raining, you'll be fine.  Remember to pack an extra layer, it always feels about 10 degrees cooler by the lake.

[NCF]

I'm going on the record that the Wheaties put everything together this week and knock off the Weenies.   Wheaton is too well coached not to bounce back after a disappointing loss.  Granted, Norm is also a great coach, but I'm going with a gut feeling here.  Every game is a must win for Wheaton and they will be fighting the rest of the way.   Considering a trip to Carthage as I've never been there for a night game.  We shall see.

It's a great atmosphere up there, especially with the updates to the stadium. Carthage always plays us tough at their place, so you might enjoy the trip.

At this point (still a little early), the forecast looks to be clear and about 42 degrees.  As long as it's not raining, you'll be fine.  Remember to pack an extra layer, it always feels about 10 degrees cooler by the lake.

Especially if the wind is blowing in off the lake.

[Titan Q]

From here in the land of the Cornhuskers, I've watched IWU online 4 times and I've seen Wheaton twice, including most of the game last week at Elmhurst.  Overall, I think IWU and Wheaton are two extremely evenly matched football teams.

Offensively...

- Both teams have a balanced attack, led by very good QBs.  Rob Gallik (227 yards per game, 15 TDs) isn't Jordan Roberts (233 yards per, 18 TDs), but he is very accurate and efficient.  Gallik is a good decision maker and a good leader on the field -- he might be a little underrated in the CCIW QB picture. 

- Wheaton has Peter Jarrett (80.0/game, 6 TDs) and Charlie Velling (65.7/game, 1 TD) running the ball...IWU has T.J. Stinde (92.8 yard per game, 6 TDs).  Both teams have running games that have to be accounted for. 

- At WR Wheaton has All-American candidate Mark Hiben (140.0/game, 6 TDs) and Morgan Cook (81.0/game, 7 TDs)...the Titans don't have a Hiben but do have a stable of very good WRs -- Alex Garvey (79.0/game, 9 TDs), Tate Musselman (45.4/game, 5 TDs), Brett Robinson (36/game), and returning all-CCIW performer Joe Musso (29.5/game) who is working back from injury.

I have a hard time calling one team or the other the "better" offensive team.

Defensively this is pretty darn tight as well -- I'm not sure I see a lot of separation.  The Titans don't necessarily have that 1 "special" player on defense that wows you, but they're just very solid as a unit.  They're smart and they play very well as a team.  I can't speak to Wheaton's defense really, but the numbers seem to suggest this is pretty even.

The Titans are as good on Special Teams as they've been in a long time -- this is an area IWU has been bad in recent years, even in very good years.  IWU is no longer managing around it's poor Special Teams play -- it's actually been an area of strength.  Freshman kicker Michael Kelley is 30-32 on PATs and 4/5 on FGs.  Sophomore backup QB Tyrell Bolden returns punts and is a big play threat.  Wheaton kicker Sam Cote is 30/31 on PATs and 5/8 FGs...similiar numbers to IWU's Kelley.  Again, I see another push -- Special Teams seems even. 

Where is do see some separation is in overall offensive execution.  IWU doesn't make a lot of mistakes -- the Titans generally make the other team beat them, as opposed to giving a bunch of field position and points away.  Wheaton seems to play a little careless at times and has turned it over quite a bit...some in big situations.  In a matchup as tight as this one, it seems to me like overall offensive execution/turnovers will decide the game.

[Mugsy]

From here in the land of the Cornhuskers, I've watched IWU online 4 times and I've seen Wheaton twice, including most of the game last week at Elmhurst.  Overall, I think IWU and Wheaton are two extremely evenly matched football teams.

Offensively...

- Both teams have a balanced attack, led by very good QBs.  Rob Gallik (227 yards per game, 15 TDs) isn't Jordan Roberts (233 yards per, 18 TDs), but he is very accurate and efficient.  Gallik is a good decision maker and a good leader on the field -- he might be a little underrated in the CCIW QB picture. 

- Wheaton has Peter Jarrett (80.0/game, 6 TDs) and Charlie Velling (65.7/game, 1 TD) running the ball...IWU has T.J. Stinde (92.8 yard per game, 6 TDs).  Both teams have running games that have to be accounted for. 

- At WR Wheaton has All-American candidate Mark Hiben (140.0/game, 6 TDs) and Morgan Cook (81.0/game, 7 TDs)...the Titans don't have a Hiben but do have a stable of very good WRs -- Alex Garvey (79.0/game, 9 TDs), Tate Musselman (45.4/game, 5 TDs), Brett Robinson (36/game), and returning all-CCIW performer Joe Musso (29.5/game) who is working back from injury.

I have a hard time calling one team or the other the "better" offensive team.

Defensively this is pretty darn tight as well -- I'm not sure I see a lot of separation.  The Titans don't necessarily have that 1 "special" player on defense that wows you, but they're just very solid as a unit.  They're smart and they play very well as a team.  I can't speak to Wheaton's defense really, but the numbers seem to suggest this is pretty even.

The Titans are as good on Special Teams as they've been in a long time -- this is an area IWU has been bad in recent years, even in very good years.  IWU is no longer managing around it's poor Special Teams play -- it's actually been an area of strength.  Freshman kicker Michael Kelley is 30-32 on PATs and 4/5 on FGs.  Sophomore backup QB Tyrell Bolden returns punts and is a big play threat.  Wheaton kicker Sam Cote is 30/31 on PATs and 5/8 FGs...similiar numbers to IWU's Kelley.  Again, I see another push -- Special Teams seems even. 

Where is do see some separation is in overall offensive execution.  IWU doesn't make a lot of mistakes -- the Titans generally make the other team beat them, as opposed to giving a bunch of field position and points away.  Wheaton seems to play a little careless at times and has turned it over quite a bit...some in big situations.  In a matchup as tight as this one, it seems to me like overall offensive execution/turnovers will decide the game.

Q,

Very solid assessment and one that I agree with overall. 

I might give Wheaton a slight edge on rushing offense with the addition of Charlie Velling.  Velling was suspended for the first 3 games, but over the last 3 games he has given Wheaton a 1-2 punch running the ball.  The two RB's have different running styles that can throw off a defense.  Plus we've already seen the impact on IWU if Stinde gets dinged up.  He seems healthy now, but if he tweaks his ankle again it could significantly impact the game.

The only other factor I would mention is that over the past decade it does not seem like IWU has played particularly well at Wheaton.  If it were only over the past two meetings at Wheaton, I would be more inclined to dismiss it as pure coincidence.

But these teams have been so evenly matched over the past decade (save a year here or there), that an average loss of 17.8 points per game since 2000 when playing at Wheaton is something to keep in mind.  This is very similar to the issue Wheaton has when playing at Elmhurst.  I don't know if it is psychological or what.

[79jaybird]

I have noticed Wheaton plays much better at McCully than on the road.  (Same for most teams I know).  If this game was in B-town I would say IWU by 10-14 points.  After Wheaton's self inflicted errors handed the game to Elmhurst last week, I would say the Thunder are going to be extra focused on execution this week.  Picking a winner on this matchup is tough, as is the case with a number of matchups this year, because the parity is high and schools are often mirror images.    I think on Pick Em's I picked IWU on this one. I think the Titans Defense is operating at a level that puts them ahead of the Thunder's O. 

[Titan Q]

The only other factor I would mention is that over the past decade it does not seem like IWU has played particularly well at Wheaton.  If it were only over the past two meetings at Wheaton, I would be more inclined to dismiss it as pure coincidence.

But these teams have been so evenly matched over the past decade (save a year here or there), that an average loss of 17.8 points per game since 2000 when playing at Wheaton is something to keep in mind.  This is very similar to the issue Wheaton has when playing at Elmhurst.  I don't know if it is psychological or what.

Remember though, Mugsy, IWU went through that awful 5-year stretch within the last decade...

CCIW Records
2002 - 3-4
2003 - 3-4
2004 - 2-5
2005 - 2-5
2006 - 2-5

(IWU played @ Wheaton 3 times in those 5 years...obviously losing all 3 times.)

Norm Eash and his staff have done such a good job bringing the program back from this period that I've almost forgotten about it.  But I remember just 6 years ago thinking that IWU was completely done as a CCIW football contender.  I don't think it's accurate to say "these teams have been so evenly matched over the past decade (save a year here or there)..."

I'd say your point is still a good one -- the Titans have struggled @ Wheaton.  Even very good IWU teams have lost by bigger margins than would have been anticipated.  But you do have to factor in that IWU took a 5-year break from being a good CCIW football program.

[79jaybird]

Titan Q- Wouldn't you agree most teams (Augie maybe an exception) have had their rises and struggles over the years.  I.e. wheaton untoppable in the 50's and pretty quiet in the late 70's and 80's etc.) and it is very rare that a long tenured coach, had instant success? 

[Gregory Sager]

Titan Q- Wouldn't you agree most teams (Augie maybe an exception) have had their rises and struggles over the years.

Augie's clearly not an exception, 79JB. All anyone has to do is look at what's happened to that program over the past year and a half to see that the Doggies are most definitely in a "struggle" phase right now.