FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Titan Q]

What will also hurt is the fact Wheaton will lose the 3-way tie breaker (h-t-h point differential) by 6 points. 

They led 35-14 with 5 minutes remaining and moved away from their original aggressive defensive plan to reduce risk of a quick TD that would give NCC a remote chance.  Wheaton allowed the short underneath routes.  NCC took advantage and marched down for a TD, making it 35-21 and Wheaton was then able to run out the remaining clock.  It was the right thing to do from a coaching standpoint to insure the victory.  But that last TD for NCC will likely result in Elmhurst receiving the pool C consideration over Wheaton.

Good point on the tie-breaker, Mugsy.  With Wheaton's dominating performance yesterday, that final North Central drive is probably a little bit lost in the shuffle...but it shouldn't be.  Essentially the Cardinals got the ball with 4:55 to play needing a TD to win the CCIW's AQ.  The score at the time was 35-14 Wheaton with NCC fans heading for their cars, but the NCC deficit might as well been just 6-0. 

Both coaches and teams knew exactly what was on the line with that drive -- a trip to the NCAA tournament.  NCC marched down the field easily and scored in just 2:50.  For as bad as the Cardinals were dominated in every phase of the game yesterday, we have to give them credit for putting it all together in a huge situation.

I have to question Wheaton's defensive handling of that drive.  Up 3 TDs with 4:55 to play there just wasn't any realistic chance of NCC winning the game -- or at least the risk of that happening was enormously outweighed by the reward of winning by 20+ points.  While I 100% agree with the decision to kick a FG up 14 with 7:37 to go (because winning the game was clearly the most important thing), I disagree with the decision to change the defense on the final NCC drive.  I wonder if Wheaton's staff is second guessing that all today.

[matblake]

You want to reach the playoffs?  Win your conference outright, or if you are a co-champ you need to be flawless in non-conference action.

There you have it.  It's the system we have and actually, despite some of it's flaws, I think it's pretty fair.  You know what you have to do to make the playoffs.  If you don't meet the criteria, you don't make it in.  Be glad at the number of playoff slots that are available now. Wasn't always this way.

[NCF]

Guys, some assistance requested.

I vote in the North Region Fan Poll.  How the he!! am I gonna sort out the NCC/Wheaton/Elmhurst triangle?  NCC was dominating everyone after their opening loss, demolished Elmhurst, but was dominated by Wheaton.  Wheaton barely lost to Elmhurst, barely beat IWU (back when they were good ), lost to Albion (barely), but dominated NCC (which no conference team had done in years).  Elmhurst has probably been the least impressive, but is the only one with one loss.

I have no clue in what order to place them.   (With Wabash losing at home to Oberlin (Oberlin! ), the trio will probably be 3, 4, and 5; I'd vote them all #4, but not sure my ballot would be accepted!)

I'm sure this will be a topic of considerable conversation for the next 10-14 days.  I have my thoughts based on "if they played 10 times, who would win the most...", but that is somewhat irrelevant.

I think we need to look at the NCAA regional rankings.  It is highly unlikely that Wheaton would go from not even in the ranking to ranked higher than Elmhurst.  NCC will likely drop below Elmhurst.

Personally I believe Wheaton is a better team than Elmhurst, but Elmhurst won the game this year and that is what counts at this point.

If I were to guess, the NCAA regional rankings will have these three as Elmhurst, NCC and then Wheaton.

No question Wheaton and NCC are the two best teams in the CCIW with EC a distant 3rd.  Wheaton did yesterday what no team in the last 5-6 years has done to the NCC defense.  If EC beats IWU they will block Wheaton from getting to the pool C table.  Happened last year to WC as they were clearly a better team than IWU at the end of the season but IWU kept winning ugly and got the pool C.

What is interesting is that Wheaton has the much higher SOS of the 3 right now...

What will also hurt is the fact Wheaton will lose the 3-way tie breaker (h-t-h point differential) by 6 points. 

They led 35-14 with 5 minutes remaining and moved away from their original aggressive defensive plan to reduce risk of a quick TD that would give NCC a remote chance.  Wheaton allowed the short underneath routes.  NCC took advantage and marched down for a TD, making it 35-21 and Wheaton was then able to run out the remaining clock.  It was the right thing to do from a coaching standpoint to insure the victory.  But that last TD for NCC will likely result in Elmhurst receiving the pool C consideration over Wheaton.

Still the loss to Albion and/or Elmhurst is what really cost them.  If Wheaton beats NPU, it'll be two years in a row of 8-2 and missing the playoffs based on various criteria - which really stings.  Happened to me my senior year, when we missed out on playoffs due to voting of the playoff committee.

You want to reach the playoffs?  Win your conference outright, or if you are a co-champ you need to be flawless in non-conference action.

I'm extremely proud of how the Wheaton team has dealt with adversity this year and has finished strong.  Who knows... maybe the IWU team that is a shadow of it's early season self and has had far more adversity than most teams could fathom (particularly with loss of teammate to cancer), can find away to take down an Elmhurst team that is on a roll?  I don't see it happening, but I didn't see Wheaton defeating NCC either.   

I didn't see that either, but Wheaton clearly executed their game plan to perfection, while NC was floundering with no direction. Poor game plan by the coaches, lack of execution by the players, turnovers and no fight let Wheaton gain more and more confidence and energy as the game progressed, while NC was shell shocked. Wheaton was in control  from the first turn over and never let up.

[Mugsy]

And never in my life did I ever think would I say GO AUGIE

You and me both, brother  .  It has certainly been a wild ride ride this season, why not fully embrace Bluejay Pride and wave the Rock Island flag this week...i'm okay with with it for 7 days if it means a shot at a conference championship (however unlikely it may seem) - here's hoping!

Elmhurst doesn't need Augie to help them achieve anything. You're in control of yur own destiny. Win and you're conference champs, lose and hope you still get invited to the dance.

Yes, they are in control of their destiny.  A win and they are CCIW Co-Champs, but they will not win the automatic qualifier.  That goes to NCC.  Elmhurst would likely be first in line in the CCIW for Pool C consideration.

A loss would result in virtually no chance at a Pool C spot.

[NCF]

Guys, some assistance requested.

I vote in the North Region Fan Poll.  How the he!! am I gonna sort out the NCC/Wheaton/Elmhurst triangle?  NCC was dominating everyone after their opening loss, demolished Elmhurst, but was dominated by Wheaton.  Wheaton barely lost to Elmhurst, barely beat IWU (back when they were good ), lost to Albion (barely), but dominated NCC (which no conference team had done in years).  Elmhurst has probably been the least impressive, but is the only one with one loss.

I have no clue in what order to place them.   (With Wabash losing at home to Oberlin (Oberlin! ), the trio will probably be 3, 4, and 5; I'd vote them all #4, but not sure my ballot would be accepted!)

I'm sure this will be a topic of considerable conversation for the next 10-14 days.  I have my thoughts based on "if they played 10 times, who would win the most...", but that is somewhat irrelevant.

I think we need to look at the NCAA regional rankings.  It is highly unlikely that Wheaton would go from not even in the ranking to ranked higher than Elmhurst.  NCC will likely drop below Elmhurst.

Personally I believe Wheaton is a better team than Elmhurst, but Elmhurst won the game this year and that is what counts at this point.

If I were to guess, the NCAA regional rankings will have these three as Elmhurst, NCC and then Wheaton.

I also think that Wheaton and NC are both better than Elmhurst, yet Elmhurst is the only one of the three that has one loss. Take care of business next week and you'll be seeded higher than NC and Wheaton if they were to get in as well.

[Mugsy]

What will also hurt is the fact Wheaton will lose the 3-way tie breaker (h-t-h point differential) by 6 points. 

They led 35-14 with 5 minutes remaining and moved away from their original aggressive defensive plan to reduce risk of a quick TD that would give NCC a remote chance.  Wheaton allowed the short underneath routes.  NCC took advantage and marched down for a TD, making it 35-21 and Wheaton was then able to run out the remaining clock.  It was the right thing to do from a coaching standpoint to insure the victory.  But that last TD for NCC will likely result in Elmhurst receiving the pool C consideration over Wheaton.

Good point on the tie-breaker, Mugsy.  With Wheaton's dominating performance yesterday, that final North Central drive is probably a little bit lost in the shuffle...but it shouldn't be.  Essentially the Cardinals got the ball with 4:55 to play needing a TD to win the CCIW's AQ.  The score at the time was 35-14 Wheaton with NCC fans heading for their cars, but the NCC deficit might as well been just 6-0. 

Both coaches and teams knew exactly what was on the line with that drive -- a trip to the NCAA tournament.  NCC marched down the field easily and scored in just 2:50.  For as bad as the Cardinals were dominated in every phase of the game yesterday, we have to give them credit for putting it all together in a huge situation.

I have to question Wheaton's defensive handling of that drive.  Up 3 TDs with 4:55 to play there just wasn't any realistic chance of NCC winning the game -- or at least the risk of that happening was enormously outweighed by the reward of winning by 20+ points.  While I 100% agree with the decision to kick a FG up 14 with 7:37 to go (because winning the game was clearly the most important thing), I disagree with the decision to change the defense on the final NCC drive.  I wonder if Wheaton's staff is second guessing that all today.

In the event some posters disagree that Wheaton softened their defense in the final 7 minutes and think it is my interpretation, from the post game comments:

Swider noted, "Until the last two drives when we knew we could soften our coverage a little bit, up until that point we were almost flawless defensively. I was really excited about how physical we were. We tackled with some authority and really shut down their running game. "

[Langhorst_Ghost]

And never in my life did I ever think would I say GO AUGIE

You and me both, brother  .  It has certainly been a wild ride ride this season, why not fully embrace Bluejay Pride and wave the Rock Island flag this week...i'm okay with with it for 7 days if it means a shot at a conference championship (however unlikely it may seem) - here's hoping!

Elmhurst doesn't need Augie to help them achieve anything. You're in control of yur own destiny. Win and you're conference champs, lose and hope you still get invited to the dance.

Part of your post is true, part of it is not, NewCardFan.  EC's postseason fate in our own hands (or wings  ): Win and we are in - absolutely agreed - co-conference champs and a lock for a Pool C bid - of course, only if the 'Jays take care of business at Langhorst Saturday.

However, as per the CCIW's by-laws (circa 2010, things may have changed since):

CCIW has an automatic qualification for the NCAA Football Championship. If the conference ends in a tie or is unable to finish the season due to some type of disaster, the representative will be chosen in the following manner:

1. Head-to-head competition
2. Best record by tied teams against the next best team or the next best tied teams in conference standings
3. Point differential between tied teams in conference
4. The fewest defensive yards given up versus tied teams in conference
5. Random drawing by CCIW commissioner.

A three-way tie would push to rule #3 and lean Naperville's direction on points (as many posters have touched on).  However, a possible 2-way tie (EC and Wheaton) would seem to come down to head-to-head, and i am sure we all remember October 13th - winning trumps opinions.  So, as unlikely as it may seem, Augie could still provide a path for the 'Jays to the AQ, and possibly open the back door for a 2-loss Wheaton as a pool C bid - which would leave Thorne and the Redbirds out of the conversation.  An added bonus: NCC would be left looking UP in the standings at the 'Jays.  Far-fetched?  Probably.  Possible?  Sure.  This has been a wild CCIW season so far - why not one more week.  Either way, the energy and optimism around the Bluejay football community is flying high in November!  Go Jays, and...(clenched teeth)...go Vikes.

[ncc_fan]

I'm not a former player or coach or parent, so there's a lot about football I don't understand, but there's one coaching decision by Wheaton that baffles me and that no one has talked about.  Why did Wheaton call three straight running plays to end the game after regaining possession at 2:02 with the AQ tiebreaker on the line? 

I know that you play to win the game, but honestly, I gave up on winning the game and turned my focus to winning the AQ tiebreaker after Wheaton went up by 21 points with 5 minutes left on the clock.   I just couldn't imagine NCC scoring 3 touchdowns in 5 minutes given how the two teams had been playing up to that point.  But I could easily imagine Wheaton moving 80 yards in 2 minutes.  So when NCC scored the late TD to pull within 14 and regain the tiebreaker, I turned to the folks around me and said, "There's too much time left."  And after the running play on 1st & 10, I said, "Do they not know that we own the tiebreaker?"

[NCF]

And never in my life did I ever think would I say GO AUGIE

You and me both, brother  .  It has certainly been a wild ride ride this season, why not fully embrace Bluejay Pride and wave the Rock Island flag this week...i'm okay with with it for 7 days if it means a shot at a conference championship (however unlikely it may seem) - here's hoping!

Elmhurst doesn't need Augie to help them achieve anything. You're in control of yur own destiny. Win and you're conference champs, lose and hope you still get invited to the dance.

Part of your post is true, part of it is not, NewCardFan.  EC's postseason fate in our own hands (or wings  ): Win and we are in - absolutely agreed - co-conference champs and a lock for a Pool C bid - of course, only if the 'Jays take care of business at Langhorst Saturday.

However, as per the CCIW's by-laws (circa 2010, things may have changed since):

CCIW has an automatic qualification for the NCAA Football Championship. If the conference ends in a tie or is unable to finish the season due to some type of disaster, the representative will be chosen in the following manner:

1. Head-to-head competition
2. Best record by tied teams against the next best team or the next best tied teams in conference standings
3. Point differential between tied teams in conference
4. The fewest defensive yards given up versus tied teams in conference
5. Random drawing by CCIW commissioner.

A three-way tie would push to rule #3 and lean Naperville's direction on points (as many posters have touched on).  However, a possible 2-way tie (EC and Wheaton) would seem to come down to head-to-head, and i am sure we all remember October 13th - winning trumps opinions.  So, as unlikely as it may seem, Augie could still provide a path for the 'Jays to the AQ, and possibly open the back door for a 2-loss Wheaton as a pool C bid - which would leave Thorne and the Redbirds out of the conversation.  An added bonus: NCC would be left looking UP in the standings at the 'Jays.  Far-fetched?  Probably.  Possible?  Sure.  This has been a wild CCIW season so far - why not one more week.  Either way, the energy and optimism around the Bluejay football community is flying high in November!  Go Jays, and...(clenched teeth)...go Vikes.

I know all about the AQ, but Elmhurst needs to win to get in. Elmhurst might not make it with a loss, so I hope you win, which gets us in as well.

[Mugsy]

I'm not a former player or coach or parent, so there's a lot about football I don't understand, but there's one coaching decision by Wheaton that baffles me and that no one has talked about.  Why did Wheaton call three straight running plays to end the game after regaining possession at 2:02 with the AQ tiebreaker on the line? 

I know that you play to win the game, but honestly, I gave up on winning the game and turned my focus to winning the AQ tiebreaker after Wheaton went up by 21 points with 5 minutes left on the clock.   I just couldn't imagine NCC scoring 3 touchdowns in 5 minutes given how the two teams had been playing up to that point.  But I could easily imagine Wheaton moving 80 yards in 2 minutes.  So when NCC scored the late TD to pull within 14 and regain the tiebreaker, I turned to the folks around me and said, "There's too much time left."  And after the running play on 1st & 10, I said, "Do they not know that we own the tiebreaker?"

Because that was probably not at the forefront of the coaching staff's thinking.  I'm pretty sure Wheaton was focused on beating NCC and keeping their chances of a CCIW Co-Champ alive.  I don't think they were absorbed with point differential.  Wheaton had a big enough challenge to game plan and execute to upset the #7 team in the country that hadn't lost a CCIW game since 2009.  We are talking about a NCC team that has had 20+ straight CCIW games where they won by more that 14 points.  That was the focus.

There are already several who are implying poor coaching decision, but compared to what the Wheaton coaching staff had to do to create a game plan & prepare the players to execute an upset of this level, I will NOT fault them for failing to win by 20 points.

If Wheaton did attempt to pull out all the stops in attempt to score another TD with under 2 minutes left, then you're going to have those uniformed who will claim Wheaton was "running up the score."

Sure, it would have been awesome to keep that 21 point lead.  But it would have been better if Wheaton kept Albion from scoring the winning TD on 4th and goal from the 27 yard line with under 2 minutes remaining or executed better on a couple of plays against Elmhurst. 

[NCF]

I'm not a former player or coach or parent, so there's a lot about football I don't understand, but there's one coaching decision by Wheaton that baffles me and that no one has talked about.  Why did Wheaton call three straight running plays to end the game after regaining possession at 2:02 with the AQ tiebreaker on the line? 

I know that you play to win the game, but honestly, I gave up on winning the game and turned my focus to winning the AQ tiebreaker after Wheaton went up by 21 points with 5 minutes left on the clock.   I just couldn't imagine NCC scoring 3 touchdowns in 5 minutes given how the two teams had been playing up to that point.  But I could easily imagine Wheaton moving 80 yards in 2 minutes.  So when NCC scored the late TD to pull within 14 and regain the tiebreaker, I turned to the folks around me and said, "There's too much time left."  And after the running play on 1st & 10, I said, "Do they not know that we own the tiebreaker?"

If Elmhurst and NC both win next week, they might just be kicking themselves over that one.

[Mugsy]

I'm not a former player or coach or parent, so there's a lot about football I don't understand, but there's one coaching decision by Wheaton that baffles me and that no one has talked about.  Why did Wheaton call three straight running plays to end the game after regaining possession at 2:02 with the AQ tiebreaker on the line? 

I know that you play to win the game, but honestly, I gave up on winning the game and turned my focus to winning the AQ tiebreaker after Wheaton went up by 21 points with 5 minutes left on the clock.   I just couldn't imagine NCC scoring 3 touchdowns in 5 minutes given how the two teams had been playing up to that point.  But I could easily imagine Wheaton moving 80 yards in 2 minutes.  So when NCC scored the late TD to pull within 14 and regain the tiebreaker, I turned to the folks around me and said, "There's too much time left."  And after the running play on 1st & 10, I said, "Do they not know that we own the tiebreaker?"

If Elmhurst and NC both win next week, they might just be kicking themselves over that one.

Again... I think you are over analyzing this.  Who would have expected Wheaton to win by a single point, let alone 20?  They just beat a top 10 team in country that happens to be their top rival to win the Bell back and to give themselves a shot at a Co-CCIW Championship, where no one outside the program (myself included) gave them a chance at keeping it within a couple of TD's.  Almost everyone in the CCIW Pool had Wheaton losing by at least 2 TD's.  And yet we are questioning why Wheaton didn't keep NCC from losing by 21?  Yes, it would have given Wheaton the AQ, but that is still dependent on the results of the games next week.  Who knows what will happen next weekend?

Wheaton will be kicking themselves more for losing to Albion and Elmhurst.  If they won either of those games, as they should have, then this whole conversation is moot.

[NCF]

I'm not a former player or coach or parent, so there's a lot about football I don't understand, but there's one coaching decision by Wheaton that baffles me and that no one has talked about.  Why did Wheaton call three straight running plays to end the game after regaining possession at 2:02 with the AQ tiebreaker on the line? 

I know that you play to win the game, but honestly, I gave up on winning the game and turned my focus to winning the AQ tiebreaker after Wheaton went up by 21 points with 5 minutes left on the clock.   I just couldn't imagine NCC scoring 3 touchdowns in 5 minutes given how the two teams had been playing up to that point.  But I could easily imagine Wheaton moving 80 yards in 2 minutes.  So when NCC scored the late TD to pull within 14 and regain the tiebreaker, I turned to the folks around me and said, "There's too much time left."  And after the running play on 1st & 10, I said, "Do they not know that we own the tiebreaker?"

Because that was probably not at the forefront of the coaching staff's thinking.  I'm pretty sure Wheaton was focused on beating NCC and keeping their chances of a CCIW Co-Champ alive.  I don't think they were absorbed with point differential.  Wheaton had a big enough challenge to game plan and execute to upset the #7 team in the country that hadn't lost a CCIW game since 2009.  We are talking about a NCC team that has had 20+ straight CCIW games where they won by more that 14 points.  That was the focus.

There are already several who are implying poor coaching decision, but compared to what the Wheaton coaching staff had to do to create a game plan & prepare the players to execute an upset of this level, I will NOT fault them for failing to win by 20 points.

If Wheaton did attempt to pull out all the stops in attempt to score another TD with under 2 minutes left, then you're going to have those uniformed who will claim Wheaton was "running up the score."

Sure, it would have been awesome to keep that 21 point lead.  But it would have been better if Wheaton kept Albion from scoring the winning TD on 4th and goal from the 27 yard line with under 2 minutes remaining or executed better on a couple of plays against Elmhurst.

Yes and quite a few teams have the "what if game". None who knew about the tiebreaker rules would have thought Wheaton was running up the score. I had to explain this to my daughters when I was excited about our last score, saying we needed the points.

[Mugsy]

I'm not a former player or coach or parent, so there's a lot about football I don't understand, but there's one coaching decision by Wheaton that baffles me and that no one has talked about.  Why did Wheaton call three straight running plays to end the game after regaining possession at 2:02 with the AQ tiebreaker on the line? 

I know that you play to win the game, but honestly, I gave up on winning the game and turned my focus to winning the AQ tiebreaker after Wheaton went up by 21 points with 5 minutes left on the clock.   I just couldn't imagine NCC scoring 3 touchdowns in 5 minutes given how the two teams had been playing up to that point.  But I could easily imagine Wheaton moving 80 yards in 2 minutes.  So when NCC scored the late TD to pull within 14 and regain the tiebreaker, I turned to the folks around me and said, "There's too much time left."  And after the running play on 1st & 10, I said, "Do they not know that we own the tiebreaker?"

Because that was probably not at the forefront of the coaching staff's thinking.  I'm pretty sure Wheaton was focused on beating NCC and keeping their chances of a CCIW Co-Champ alive.  I don't think they were absorbed with point differential.  Wheaton had a big enough challenge to game plan and execute to upset the #7 team in the country that hadn't lost a CCIW game since 2009.  We are talking about a NCC team that has had 20+ straight CCIW games where they won by more that 14 points.  That was the focus.

There are already several who are implying poor coaching decision, but compared to what the Wheaton coaching staff had to do to create a game plan & prepare the players to execute an upset of this level, I will NOT fault them for failing to win by 20 points.

If Wheaton did attempt to pull out all the stops in attempt to score another TD with under 2 minutes left, then you're going to have those uniformed who will claim Wheaton was "running up the score."

Sure, it would have been awesome to keep that 21 point lead.  But it would have been better if Wheaton kept Albion from scoring the winning TD on 4th and goal from the 27 yard line with under 2 minutes remaining or executed better on a couple of plays against Elmhurst.

Yes and quite a few teams have the "what if game". None who knew about the tiebreaker rules would have thought Wheaton was running up the score. I had to explain this to my daughters when I was excited about our last score, saying we needed the points.

I still find it absurd that after Wheaton pulls off one of the more stunning upsets in a couple years in the CCIW, the focus is on questioning the coaching staff for failing to win by 20.  There is still a week of games left.  Who knows what will happen?

I can guarantee you the Wheaton staff will not sit there and question, "if only we would have beaten NCC by 21 instead of 14".  What will eat at them more is the loss to Albion and Elmhurst.

[NCF]

I'm not a former player or coach or parent, so there's a lot about football I don't understand, but there's one coaching decision by Wheaton that baffles me and that no one has talked about.  Why did Wheaton call three straight running plays to end the game after regaining possession at 2:02 with the AQ tiebreaker on the line? 

I know that you play to win the game, but honestly, I gave up on winning the game and turned my focus to winning the AQ tiebreaker after Wheaton went up by 21 points with 5 minutes left on the clock.   I just couldn't imagine NCC scoring 3 touchdowns in 5 minutes given how the two teams had been playing up to that point.  But I could easily imagine Wheaton moving 80 yards in 2 minutes.  So when NCC scored the late TD to pull within 14 and regain the tiebreaker, I turned to the folks around me and said, "There's too much time left."  And after the running play on 1st & 10, I said, "Do they not know that we own the tiebreaker?"

If Elmhurst and NC both win next week, they might just be kicking themselves over that one.

Again... I think you are over analyzing this.  Who would have expected Wheaton to win by a single point, let alone 20?  They just beat a top 10 team in country that happens to be their top rival to win the Bell back and to give themselves a shot at a Co-CCIW Championship, where no one outside the program (myself included) gave them a chance at keeping it within a couple of TD's.  Almost everyone in the CCIW Pool had Wheaton losing by at least 2 TD's.  And yet we are questioning why Wheaton didn't keep NCC from losing by 21?  Yes, it would have given Wheaton the AQ, but that is still dependent on the results of the games next week.  Who knows what will happen next weekend?

Wheaton will be kicking themselves more for losing to Albion and Elmhurst.  If they won either of those games, as they should have, then this whole conversation is moot.

And NC will be kicking themselves because of UWL and Wheaton. What I didn't expect was your defense to be so good. They played with a purpose and intensity, that I wish more of the NC players would have showed yesterday.