FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[ncc_fan]

I'm not questioning the Wheaton coaching staff for "failing to win by 20."  I congratulate them & the Wheaton players for brilliant game planning, hard-hitting, & execution.  I'm simply wondering why they didn't TRY to win by 20 when they had the ball, 2 minutes on the clock, and an offense that had been flying down the field and embarrassing NCC's defense all afternoon long.

[Mugsy]

And NC will be kicking themselves because of UWL and Wheaton. What I didn't expect was your defense to be so good. They played with a purpose and intensity, that I wish more of the NC players would have showed yesterday.

It surprised me as well, especially after what I saw from the defense the week prior against Millikin.  It has been a very physical, hard-hitting defense all year, but one that seems to give up the big plays in key situations. 

They are a good defense, but they excelled yesterday.

[Titan Q]

I still find it absurd that after Wheaton pulls off one of the more stunning upsets in a couple years in the CCIW, the focus is on questioning the coaching staff for failing to win by 20.  There is still a week of games left.  Who knows what will happen?

I can guarantee you the Wheaton staff will not sit there and question, "if only we would have beaten NCC by 21 instead of 14".  What will eat at them more is the loss to Albion and Elmhurst.

Speaking just for me, I was incredibly impressed with the coaching job done by the Wheaton staff yesterday.  I spent most of the game thinking that North Central was out-coached.  Wheaton's gameplan and execution were just better than NCC's.

That said, I do think it's fair to praise the Wheaton staff for the tremendous job done yesterday while questioning the lack of focus on the tie-breaker.  Winning a share of the league title is huge...as is winning the AQ.  That tie-breaker situation simply turned out to be a big story in the final minutes of the game.  Heck, the tie-breaker scenario was being discussed on Twitter by the Wheaton broadcast crew (retweeted by D3football.com) as the game was winding down.

Here is what Usee said immediately after the game on the In-game Updates board:

Wheaton needed a 20 pt win for the AQ. A great win but a horrible mistake by not protecting that lead. NCC wins the AQ if all three win out.

I think it's a fair topic to discuss without taking anything away from the job done by Coach Swider and his staff in taking down Goliath.

[Mugsy]

I'm not questioning the Wheaton coaching staff for "failing to win by 20."  I congratulate them & the Wheaton players for brilliant game planning, hard-hitting, & execution.  I'm simply wondering why they didn't TRY to win by 20 when they had the ball, 2 minutes on the clock, and an offense that had been flying down the field and embarrassing NCC's defense all afternoon long.

Fair enough... I see the subtly in the question.  To an extent it is a fair question.

I just don't think Wheaton came into the game thinking "we need to win by 20."  I'm pretty sure they focused on getting the win first.

[NCF]

With only a week left in  this crazy CCIW season, what are everyone's thoughts on players of the year and all-conference selections?

[Mugsy]

Updated SOS:

       Team           Regional record    Regional win %    OWP (rank)    OOWP    NCAA
33 Wheaton (Ill.)            7-2                   .778               .5714 (39)      .5315    0.558
49 North Central (Ill.)    7-2                    .778               .5507 (53)      .5310    0.544
62 Elmhurst                    8-1                   .889               .5211 (77)     .5486    0.530

[wheatie barefooter]

I'm not questioning the Wheaton coaching staff for "failing to win by 20."  I congratulate them & the Wheaton players for brilliant game planning, hard-hitting, & execution.  I'm simply wondering why they didn't TRY to win by 20 when they had the ball, 2 minutes on the clock, and an offense that had been flying down the field and embarrassing NCC's defense all afternoon long.

Fair enough... I see the subtly in the question.  To an extent it is a fair question.

I just don't think Wheaton came into the game thinking "we need to win by 20."  I'm pretty sure they focused on getting the win first.

First off, it was a marvelous game by both the Thunder players AND coaching staff.  "You play to win the game!" and that they did in impressive style.  The decision I questioned was not the end of game defensive softness but rather the decision made with less than 8 minutes left in the game.  The Thunder had just marched 62 yards in 12 plays and had a fourth and goal from the one.  I say, punch it in!!  I was sitting with the father of the Thunder kicker (another former Crusader) and we had a mild disagreement before the kick was attempted (and missed).  I know ... you want to go up by 3 scores (and that's probably the safe and wise decision) but I thought it was an opportunity to put the game away by going for the td.

Secondly, I should add - my thinking during this decision had nothing to do with the tiebreaker scenario - I was only thinking about the win!!  Only after the game did I start thinking about the AQ tiebreaker.

But, what puzzled me more than anything else was NC's decision to NOT onside kick with 2 minutes left, down by 14.  Or, was this a good decision since they knew they had possibly secured the AQ tiebreaker with that final score (assuming EC, WC and NC all win out)??

With the win, Wheaton has put themselves back on top of the CCIW (although will probably miss the playoffs due to the 2 earlier losses).  CONGRATS THUNDER!!

[iwu4ever]

If you would have told me with 5 minutes left in the Wheaton game that IWU would finish 3-4 in the CCIW, __________________. 

(I couldn't think of anything to finish this with, so pick your own ending...you know what I'm saying.)

...you should have told me another NORMal year.
with 6:50 left in that game and up 9 points (2 scores)...we have 2 possessions: rushing 3 times (5, -2, 3), 3 clock stopping passes (2 inc and 1 int), 1 false start pen. and consume 1:57 (int on 3rd down) and 1:11 off of the clock. All before Gallik gets hurt.

Sucks to be in the bottom 4 all over again. CCIW wins: Mil (1 win took us to 2OT), Car (1 win), and NP (0 wins)...better keep scheduling non-conference wins!

[nccfac]

But, what puzzled me more than anything else was NC's decision to NOT onside kick with 2 minutes left, down by 14.  Or, was this a good decision since they knew they had possibly secured the AQ tiebreaker with that final score (assuming EC, WC and NC all win out)??

With the win, Wheaton has put themselves back on top of the CCIW (although will probably miss the playoffs due to the 2 earlier losses).  CONGRATS THUNDER!!

Those of us on NCC side were hoping we would not try an onside kick just for the reason you stated.
In the Chicago Trib online a writeup on the game -http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-spt-1104-wheaton-north-central-football--20121104,0,2118694.story

[wheatie barefooter]

But, what puzzled me more than anything else was NC's decision to NOT onside kick with 2 minutes left, down by 14.  Or, was this a good decision since they knew they had possibly secured the AQ tiebreaker with that final score (assuming EC, WC and NC all win out)??

With the win, Wheaton has put themselves back on top of the CCIW (although will probably miss the playoffs due to the 2 earlier losses).  CONGRATS THUNDER!!

Those of us on NCC side were hoping we would not try an onside kick just for the reason you stated.
In the Chicago Trib online a writeup on the game -http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-spt-1104-wheaton-north-central-football--20121104,0,2118694.story

At the time, I was in disbelief ... but after the fact, it was a brilliant move to "kick it deep" and then let Wheaton run out the clock.

[NCF]

New top 25 out. NC is 14, Wheaton 15. That seems odd after yesterday.  Elmhurst is #20.

[USee]

Sorry I have been late to the boards for a recap. Lot's of good stuff on here. First the big game:

Wheaton 35
NCC  21

Wheaton 480 yds
NCC  442 yds

Jordan Roberts
32-46, 70%, 382 yds, 2 TD's, 2 passing TD's
Morgan Cook 11 catches 181 yds 1 TD
Mark Hiben 12 cathes 127  yds
Pat Dansdill 14 tackles, 1 sack, 1 FR for TD

Kukuc 9 rush 49 yds  5.4 avg
Tassio 4 rush 8 yds 1.3 avg
Spencer Stanek 24-37, 65%, 334 yds 2 TD, 10 rush 65 yds 4.8 avg

This rivalry has been pretty one-sided the past 4 years. Almost every year Wheaton and NCC have been highly ranked and this game was billed to be a tight battle. Each of the last 4 years North Central has won handily. I have to think there was a little bit of a let down for the NCC seniors in that this game was overhyped and NCC won easily each of the past 3 years. What most people don't remember, however, is that this is the first time Jordan Roberts has faced NCC. Two years ago, with Wheaton undefeated and ranked high, Roberts broke the thumb of his throwing hand on Thursday before the game. Garret Meador took over and NCC won 28-6. Last season, Roberts blew out his ACL on the first day of practice and never played a down. The difference yesterday for the Thunder was Jordan Roberts. He was so composed and made play after play throughout the game.

I was absolutely shocked to see NCC abandon the run. They came into the game averaging 220 yds a game. Kukuc and Tassio have averaged 22 carries a game for 146 yds. Yesterday, they had 13 combined carries for 57 yds. Kukuc fumbled the ball to Wheaton on the very first play of the game. While that didn't result in a TD for the Thunder (Cardinal defense held) it must have resulted in different play calling as North Central had 8 runs and 17 passes the rest of the half. When you consider the fact that they came into this game as a 60% run/40% pass team, you have to wonder why they would operate the entire first half at 70% pass and 30% run? I am baffled by that game plan other than the fact that after Kukuc fumbled the first play, Jeff Thorne may have lost some confidence in him. Some may remember it was a Kukuc fumble vs Wabash in the 4th quarter that gave the Little Giants the ball to go for the winning score. But Kukuc is the 2nd best RB in this conference so I can't imagine that was the issue.

This game was ultimately won by Jordan Roberts with lots of help from Hiben and Cook. If you watch the highlights on the NCC website you see a composed Roberts throwing perfect pass after perfect pass with a crumbling pocket all around him. I was extremely impressed with his poise. The turning point of the whole game was the hit and fumble by NCC at the 2 followed by a 98 yd masterpiece by Jordan Roberts to extend the lead to 3 scores.

This was unlike NCC's LAX loss simply by the fact that NCC dominated that game and gave up 6 turnovers. This game NCC had 4 turnovers but was dominated the whole game by Wheaton. All of those turnovers were the result of hits by the Wheaton defense.

Congratulations to the Wheaton team and coaches for creating and executing a fabulous plan. Wheaton really dominated this game from start to finish and was the better team in every phase.

It was a great win for Swider and the program.

[USee]

While I think Wheaton's coaching staff outcoached Thorne and company for 90% of yesterday's game, I really believe Swider and his staff missed a huge opportunity in not being more aggressive at the end to go for the AQ point spread. It is clear they knew exactly what they had to do. As Mugsy points out, however, no one in this room or certainly on either team thought this would be close to a 20 pt Wheaton win. But the responsibility of every coaching staff is to prepare their team for the possibilities. Each team has play calls for 2 pt conversions, for 4th and 1, for 3rd and short, etc. It is the job of the coaches to talk and plan for every situation that could happen and their is no other reasonable explanation for the end of that game other than the Wheaton staff wasn't prepared for it.

The decision for the FG in the 4th quarter is a toss up. I don't think it was a bad decision to kick what amounted to an extra point to make it a 3 score game. But the decision to play soft coverage late in the 4th was disappointing. I would have been much more aggressive as NCC got into the redzone and I would certainly have tried to pass the ball on the last possession.

The only explanation for the lack of an onsides kick by NCC was to protect the AQ pointspread. Clearly Thorne knew his team was beaten and he must have thought Wheaton was going to go for the 20 pt win. Missing an onsides kick would give Wheaton a short field so he kicked it deep. That's my thought. I could be wrong.

I agree with most of Mugsy's analysis that argued the Wheaton coaches wanted the win more than anything else and I don't fault the coaches for not trying for a larger lead. Where I may differ a little is you can't worry about the Elmhurst and Albion games now. That's the mindset they obviously had or they never would have defeated the Cardinals yesterday. They knew they could win. I simply don't think they thought about the scenario they found themselves in yesterday. If all three teams win next weekend I can't imagine the disappointment Wheaton will feel after having dominated NCC but watch them go to the playoffs. The problem is, yesterday they couldn't do anything about Elmhurst and Albion. They had control of the AQ situation with their play and didn't take advantage.

[USee]

I don't think next weeks results are a foregone conclusion. IWU @ Elmhurst is pretty close to a pickem game for me. Elmhurst's defense is really bad and IWU has been shell-shocked since the last minute of the Wheaton game. I do not expect Eash and company to lay down for Elmhurst and beating the Titans, who have a good defense, will not be easy. It would not surprise me at all if IWU wins.

Augie is also playing their best ball of the season. They are clearly a much different team than the one that lost to Wheaton 49-7 in Rock Island. They nearly beat Elmhurst @Langhorst and beat up on IWU in Bloomington. I would not want to be the Cardinals playing in Rock Island this week. I have to think NCC is favored but Augustana's defense is the 3rd ranked CCIW defense behind Wheaon and NCC right now. This game is not a layup for North Central either.

Wheaton vs North Park is obviously a much easier path but NPU played them very tough last year before finally succumbing to the Thunder.

[USee]

I don't know where to rank all these teams any better than others do but in the old days, before published criteria, SOS and regional rankings, winning streaks and home vs away records were pretty important.

Wheaton's win on the road yesterday was the most impressive since Elmhurst and NCC both beat the other two at home. If Elmhurst wins Saturday they will have run off 6 straight wins, Wheaton will have run off 4 and NCC will have lost in the last 2 weeks of the season, which the committee used to never favor.

I have to think NCC and Elmhurst are locks with wins Saturday and the only 2 loss team with any shot would be Wheaton. But Wheaton's SOS will fall after NPU game and Elmhursts will rise. NCC should be pretty neutral. It will be an interesting week.