FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[AndOne]

Possibly because I'm not a NPU insider, but it would be hard to believe there is anyone closer to/more on top of the NPU athletic situation than Professor Sager. I think he feels very strongly that Coach Pethel was about the best man for the job that NPU could have in the position.
Accordingly, it seems as though one of the job requirements listed for the potential applicants to replace Pethel needs to be "miracle worker," or perhaps "able to leap tall building in a single bound." 

[Pat Coleman]

I am sure there are other people on the planet who can coach this team, probably quite a few who can get this team to the next level. (One of many levels above them.) Scott Pethel has gotten them some of the way there -- to the point where the program can be competitive in some games, and where the program has some numbers and some retention.

What North Park must do, in my opinion, is act quickly. I don't think the program can afford to lose an entire recruiting class by taking a long time to make a hire.

[Mugsy]

I don't know how to "Reply" to a specific post so I will try to answer this way.  To those that have questions about NCC's ability to stop the pass.  In both their losses to "passing teams" NCC turned over the ball at least 5 or 6 times in each of those games.  I believe two turnovers in the UW LaCross Game were returned for touchdowns and they lost 21-17.  In the Wheaton Game they gave up fumbles in the red zone (1 on the two yard line) One returned for a touchdown and lost 35-21. 
NCC has the defense and offense to play with anybody.  They need to take care of the football and the rest will come!
If thye don't, it will be a long flight home!
Good luck to all participants in this years playoffs. Hope everyone comes out healthy.
Go Cardinals!

No doubt turnovers impacted the game.  You mention the NCC turnovers (one in the redzone, one returned 72 yards), but you failed to mention the 2 turnovers that Wheaton had in the redzone as well.  By your logic that means Wheaton should have had more than the 35 points they had. 

NCC had all kinds of problems with Wheaton's passing attack.  Jordan Roberts was 32 of 46 for 380 yards and 2 TD's.  Hiben had 12 catches for 127 yards.  Cook had 11 catches for 181 yards.  If you want to shrug off the loss to turnovers, you are a bit delusional.  NCC's inability to stop the Wheaton passing attack played a huge role in the loss, not to mention Wheaton's stuffing the NCC ground attack (25 carries for only 108 yards, 4.3 yards per carry).

[robertgoulet]

I don't know how to "Reply" to a specific post so I will try to answer this way.  To those that have questions about NCC's ability to stop the pass.  In both their losses to "passing teams" NCC turned over the ball at least 5 or 6 times in each of those games.  I believe two turnovers in the UW LaCross Game were returned for touchdowns and they lost 21-17.  In the Wheaton Game they gave up fumbles in the red zone (1 on the two yard line) One returned for a touchdown and lost 35-21. 
NCC has the defense and offense to play with anybody.  They need to take care of the football and the rest will come!
If thye don't, it will be a long flight home!
Good luck to all participants in this years playoffs. Hope everyone comes out healthy.
Go Cardinals!

No doubt turnovers impacted the game.  You mention the NCC turnovers (one in the redzone, one returned 72 yards), but you failed to mention the 2 turnovers that Wheaton had in the redzone as well.  By your logic that means Wheaton should have had more than the 35 points they had. 

NCC had all kinds of problems with Wheaton's passing attack.  Jordan Roberts was 32 of 46 for 380 yards and 2 TD's.  Hiben had 12 catches for 127 yards.  Cook had 11 catches for 181 yards.  If you want to shrug off the loss to turnovers, you are a bit delusional.  NCC's inability to stop the Wheaton passing attack played a huge role in the loss, not to mention Wheaton's stuffing the NCC ground attack (25 carries for only 108 yards, 4.3 yards per carry).

I agree with Mugsy (barf) on this....the turnovers didn't cost NCC the game. Wheaton worked us all 4 quarters. We couldn't stop the pass and couldn't run the ball. If you want to play the "if we didn't turn it over" game, Wheaton could say the same (as Mugsy pointed out).

Now, Mugsy please say something I disagree with so I feel better about myself.

[cardinaldad]

I don't know how to "Reply" to a specific post so I will try to answer this way.  To those that have questions about NCC's ability to stop the pass.  In both their losses to "passing teams" NCC turned over the ball at least 5 or 6 times in each of those games.  I believe two turnovers in the UW LaCross Game were returned for touchdowns and they lost 21-17.  In the Wheaton Game they gave up fumbles in the red zone (1 on the two yard line) One returned for a touchdown and lost 35-21. 
NCC has the defense and offense to play with anybody.  They need to take care of the football and the rest will come!
If thye don't, it will be a long flight home!
Good luck to all participants in this years playoffs. Hope everyone comes out healthy.
Go Cardinals!

No doubt turnovers impacted the game.  You mention the NCC turnovers (one in the redzone, one returned 72 yards), but you failed to mention the 2 turnovers that Wheaton had in the redzone as well.  By your logic that means Wheaton should have had more than the 35 points they had. 

NCC had all kinds of problems with Wheaton's passing attack.  Jordan Roberts was 32 of 46 for 380 yards and 2 TD's.  Hiben had 12 catches for 127 yards.  Cook had 11 catches for 181 yards.  If you want to shrug off the loss to turnovers, you are a bit delusional.  NCC's inability to stop the Wheaton passing attack played a huge role in the loss, not to mention Wheaton's stuffing the NCC ground attack (25 carries for only 108 yards, 4.3 yards per carry).

Agreed Mugsy! It is not a secret that there have been games through the years when the Cards couldn't stop the pass and had no answer. While there were turnovers, they did not hinder or enhance the other team's pass offense. It was all on the d. WE just plain out couldn't stop it. I also agree with the nccfac's post. We have athletes. Bring some pressure and let the db's play. In those past games, we were very conservative on defense.

[cardinaldad]

I had a little throw-up in my mouth too! I didn't like it.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I don't know how to "Reply" to a specific post so I will try to answer this way.  To those that have questions about NCC's ability to stop the pass.  In both their losses to "passing teams" NCC turned over the ball at least 5 or 6 times in each of those games.  I believe two turnovers in the UW LaCross Game were returned for touchdowns and they lost 21-17.  In the Wheaton Game they gave up fumbles in the red zone (1 on the two yard line) One returned for a touchdown and lost 35-21. 
NCC has the defense and offense to play with anybody.  They need to take care of the football and the rest will come!
If thye don't, it will be a long flight home!
Good luck to all participants in this years playoffs. Hope everyone comes out healthy.
Go Cardinals!

No doubt turnovers impacted the game.  You mention the NCC turnovers (one in the redzone, one returned 72 yards), but you failed to mention the 2 turnovers that Wheaton had in the redzone as well.  By your logic that means Wheaton should have had more than the 35 points they had. 

NCC had all kinds of problems with Wheaton's passing attack.  Jordan Roberts was 32 of 46 for 380 yards and 2 TD's.  Hiben had 12 catches for 127 yards.  Cook had 11 catches for 181 yards.  If you want to shrug off the loss to turnovers, you are a bit delusional.  NCC's inability to stop the Wheaton passing attack played a huge role in the loss, not to mention Wheaton's stuffing the NCC ground attack (25 carries for only 108 yards, 4.3 yards per carry).

I agree with Mugsy (barf) on this....the turnovers didn't cost NCC the game. Wheaton worked us all 4 quarters. We couldn't stop the pass and couldn't run the ball. If you want to play the "if we didn't turn it over" game, Wheaton could say the same (as Mugsy pointed out).

Now, Mugsy please say something I disagree with so I feel better about myself.

"Mugsy barf - it's not just for breakfast anymore^TM."

[AndOne]

I don't know how to "Reply" to a specific post so I will try to answer this way.  To those that have questions about NCC's ability to stop the pass.  In both their losses to "passing teams" NCC turned over the ball at least 5 or 6 times in each of those games.  I believe two turnovers in the UW LaCross Game were returned for touchdowns and they lost 21-17.  In the Wheaton Game they gave up fumbles in the red zone (1 on the two yard line) One returned for a touchdown and lost 35-21. 
NCC has the defense and offense to play with anybody.  They need to take care of the football and the rest will come!
If thye don't, it will be a long flight home!
Good luck to all participants in this years playoffs. Hope everyone comes out healthy.
Go Cardinals!

No doubt turnovers impacted the game.  You mention the NCC turnovers (one in the redzone, one returned 72 yards), but you failed to mention the 2 turnovers that Wheaton had in the redzone as well.  By your logic that means Wheaton should have had more than the 35 points they had. 

NCC had all kinds of problems with Wheaton's passing attack.  Jordan Roberts was 32 of 46 for 380 yards and 2 TD's.  Hiben had 12 catches for 127 yards.  Cook had 11 catches for 181 yards.  If you want to shrug off the loss to turnovers, you are a bit delusional.  NCC's inability to stop the Wheaton passing attack played a huge role in the loss, not to mention Wheaton's stuffing the NCC ground attack (25 carries for only 108 yards, 4.3 yards per carry).

I agree with Mugsy (barf) on this....the turnovers didn't cost NCC the game. Wheaton worked us all 4 quarters. We couldn't stop the pass and couldn't run the ball. If you want to play the "if we didn't turn it over" game, Wheaton could say the same (as Mugsy pointed out).

1. The two killer TOs on NCC's part were the fumble on the WC 2 yard line after a completed pass, and the fumble that was returned 70+ yards for a TD

2. Regarding the NCC pass defense--or lack thereof. It seemed the Cardinals experienced particular problems on crossing routes. Frequently, Hiben or Cook lined up on one end of the line of scrimmage, received the pass as they crossed behind the LBs but in front of the DBs, and were finally brought down on the opposite side of the field from where they started.

[formerd3db]

I am sure there are other people on the planet who can coach this team, probably quite a few who can get this team to the next level. (One of many levels above them.) Scott Pethel has gotten them some of the way there -- to the point where the program can be competitive in some games, and where the program has some numbers and some retention.

What North Park must do, in my opinion, is act quickly. I don't think the program can afford to lose an entire recruiting class by taking a long time to make a hire.

Pat,  you are absolutely right in that North Park really needs to make the decision in quicly albeit without recklessness i.e. being thorough.  It will be a disaster if they wait long like a couple of the other schools did a couple of years ago or so.  BTW, has it come out yet whether the school administration made the decision or if it was Pethel's? I didn't see any announcements/comments regarding that on their athletic website (although I suspect it was the former).   

[NCF]

I don't know how to "Reply" to a specific post so I will try to answer this way.  To those that have questions about NCC's ability to stop the pass.  In both their losses to "passing teams" NCC turned over the ball at least 5 or 6 times in each of those games.  I believe two turnovers in the UW LaCross Game were returned for touchdowns and they lost 21-17.  In the Wheaton Game they gave up fumbles in the red zone (1 on the two yard line) One returned for a touchdown and lost 35-21. 
NCC has the defense and offense to play with anybody.  They need to take care of the football and the rest will come!
If thye don't, it will be a long flight home!
Good luck to all participants in this years playoffs. Hope everyone comes out healthy.
Go Cardinals!

No doubt turnovers impacted the game.  You mention the NCC turnovers (one in the redzone, one returned 72 yards), but you failed to mention the 2 turnovers that Wheaton had in the redzone as well.  By your logic that means Wheaton should have had more than the 35 points they had. 

NCC had all kinds of problems with Wheaton's passing attack.  Jordan Roberts was 32 of 46 for 380 yards and 2 TD's.  Hiben had 12 catches for 127 yards.  Cook had 11 catches for 181 yards.  If you want to shrug off the loss to turnovers, you are a bit delusional.  NCC's inability to stop the Wheaton passing attack played a huge role in the loss, not to mention Wheaton's stuffing the NCC ground attack (25 carries for only 108 yards, 4.3 yards per carry).

I agree with Mugsy (barf) on this....the turnovers didn't cost NCC the game. Wheaton worked us all 4 quarters. We couldn't stop the pass and couldn't run the ball. If you want to play the "if we didn't turn it over" game, Wheaton could say the same (as Mugsy pointed out).

1. The two killer TOs on NCC's part were the fumble on the WC 2 yard line after a completed pass, and the fumble that was returned 70+ yards for a TD

2. Regarding the NCC pass defense--or lack thereof. It seemed the Cardinals experienced particular problems on crossing routes. Frequently, Hiben or Cook lined up on one end of the line of scrimmage, received the pass as they crossed behind the LBs but in front of the DBs, and were finally brought down on the opposite side of the field from where they started.

Don't forget the fumble during the first drive of the game as well.    Let's hope the are sick (from watching the Wheaton disaster) and find a solution.

[NCF]

For those of you who want to watch the game with other Cardinal fans-Bar Louie is the place to be.

[Mr. Ypsi]

The NPU website has "Head Coach - to be announced" on the coaching staff page.

Regardless of the reason for his departure, could we show him the respect of getting his name right: it is Pethtel, not Pethel.

[D O.C.]

Good observation.
That would be like people typing Yipsi.

Costly fumbles!? Tell me about it. Playoff OT at St. Thomas 2010 fumble lost inside the 10 to end the season.

Are any of you posters coming West? 72 today and you can see Catalina Island and the San Gabriel Mountains  (9,000 feet) just by turning your head.

[Gregory Sager]

Yes, Scott Pethtel was let go on Monday. As newparker said, the football team was told about this yesterday at their end-of-year meeting.

I had no inside information that this was going to take place, but I nevertheless had a sense that this was going to happen.

I just saw that the Head Football Coach position is available on the North Park jobs page.  Anyone have any insight in to that?  Maybe I missed something long ago, I do spend much more time on the soccer and basketball boards, so my apologies if this was already discussed.

I really hope that is a mistake.  The strides that NP has made are not huge but they are progress over where they have been.  I fear another coaching change will take that program back down to rock bottom.

"Back down to rock bottom"? Where is NPU now? The Vikings were outscored 236-54 in CCIW play this year. (For those of you who prefer averaged numbers, that means that NPU lost its seven CCIW games by an average score of 34-9.) Last season the Vikes narrowly lost to Carthage and Augie by a field goal apiece, and were competitive against Millikin until almost the end of the game. This season, however, NPU lost each CCIW game by three touchdowns or more. And this was the most experienced team that NPU has fielded in a generation, with 20 seniors and 22 juniors on the squad.

If North Park football isn't at rock bottom, I'm genuinely curious as to what constitutes "rock bottom" in your book, CardinalAlum. I'm not being snarky, either. I really do want to know.

Scott Pethtel is a great coach and even better person. I hope he is will with the NPU program because he is finaly putting a solid foundation down on the program, to build on.  While the Wins are not quite there yet,  you can see some of the improvements the Vikes have been having on and off the field.

Off the field ... yes, I've talked about that quite a few times in this room: Improved retention, better academic performance, and just better all-around people who wear the North Park uniform. I travel on the bus with the NPU football team, and I can honestly say that they don't reflect the commonly-held negative stereotypes people have of football players. They seem like a genuinely decent, friendly, and intelligent group of young men. And a lot of that is a tribute to Scott Pethtel, not simply in terms of the student-athletes that he's recruited but in the way he carries himself and sets an example for his players. They're lucky to have had a mentor like him.

But on the field? See my reply to CardinalAlum. The Vikings have now lost 89 straight conference games. And they're no closer to winning one now than they have been at any time during that abominable streak. In fact, as I indicated, they actually went backwards from last season.

It's pretty clear to me Pethtel is gone. The same thing happened with NPU basketball if I remember. That is,  a job opening was posted before any announcement.

Yes, the same thing happened with NPU men's basketball coach Paul Brenegan in the spring of '11 in terms of the job opening being posted with no public announcement by the school. (Don't look for North Park to put out an announcement this time, either.) I'm not sure, but I think that the idea is to spare the dismissed coach the public embarrassment of a press release. While I applaud the sentiment, I'm not sure that it's a good idea.

I am sure Greg will have the scoop and inform us all. Major bummer as Pethtel seems like a great guy and had made huge strides with the program.

Again with the positive language. "Progress over where they have been" ... "finally putting a solid foundation down on the program to build on" ... "improvements the Vikes have been having on and off the field" ... "huge strides". Look, I appreciate that you three are trying to be nice here. But I also realize that the three of you root for NPU's conference rivals rather than for the Park, so it's no skin off your nose to pass along an encomium for North Park football in the wake of Scott Pethtel's dismissal. But, I'm sorry, it seems a little disingenuous to me. If you're talking about off-the-field stuff, then fine. But if you're really trying to make a case that NPU football is getting better on the field, then you're full of baloney. It's not. That's the hard, plain, uncomfortable truth. Again, the Vikings were outscored 236-54 in CCIW play this year and didn't come within three touchdowns of a CCIW opponent. There's just no getting around that.

Scott is a great guy. No doubt about that. Paul Brenegan was, too. But it's ultimately gotta be about wins and losses at some point. All the character-building in the world won't wipe out the scoreboard. Even if the relentless pile of losses doesn't in and of itself put a coach's job in jeopardy, if nothing else it'll play a determining role in recruiting ... and NPU's football recruiting was down this year in terms of numbers. As I've said time and time again, it's very hard to recruit for a losing program, because kids want to go someplace where they feel they'll have a chance to be a part of a winner. And since NPU's a tuition-driven school, those recruiting numbers matter greatly. If the losses don't get you, the dollars and cents will.

Here's the difference between the Pethtel situation and the Brenegan situation, though: NPU can win at basketball if it has the right coach doing the right things. It's done so before, and it can do so again. Football? Different story entirely. I've gone on record several times, this link being the latest, as to why I don't think NPU can ever field a winning football program. Trust me, there are very few people on this planet who would love to see North Park put together a winning football season more than yours truly. It's not like I'm spending my Saturdays talking into a microphone just because I want to share my golden voice with the world. I very, very much want North Park to win. But I just don't see how it's possible for NPU to put a winning football team together, given the sport's demographics and roster requirements. Thus, perhaps under these circumstances, it would be better for the school to simply retain somebody like Scott Pethtel who is such an outstanding ambassador for the school, leader and molder of young men, and exemplar for the Christian values that the school represents. Winning isn't everything. There are bigger things in life.

But I don't get to make those decisions. I just webcast the games.

I certainly wish Scott and Cyndy the best. They're great people, and they will be missed around North Park.

[Gregory Sager]

I just saw that the Head Football Coach position is available on the North Park jobs page.  Anyone have any insight in to that?  Maybe I missed something long ago, I do spend much more time on the soccer and basketball boards, so my apologies if this was already discussed.

I really hope that is a mistake.  The strides that NP has made are not huge but they are progress over where they have been.  I fear another coaching change will take that program back down to rock bottom.

Unfortunately for NPU, it appears not to be a mistake. Check the 1st line of the link:

http://athletics.northpark.edu/coaches.aspx?path=football&tab=football

That's been updated in the past three hours. Pethel was still out there when I looked before.

Calling Mr. Sager......come in, GS.....we need clarification....

Maybe Mr. Sager is now Coach Sager.    From the  booth to the sideline ...

Yes, because everybody who runs North Park just had anvils dropped on their heads and have thus all become dumb enough to give me a position of responsibility more serious than keeping the scorebook for the women's basketball team or pressing the buttons to put balls and strikes on the baseball scoreboard.

Possibly because I'm not a NPU insider, but it would be hard to believe there is anyone closer to/more on top of the NPU athletic situation than Professor Sager. I think he feels very strongly that Coach Pethel was about the best man for the job that NPU could have in the position.
Accordingly, it seems as though one of the job requirements listed for the potential applicants to replace Pethel needs to be "miracle worker," or perhaps "able to leap tall building in a single bound." 

That's it in a nutshell, Mark. I don't know if there's a more difficult job in all of college football than being the head coach of North Park, but if it isn't, I'm sure that the list of more difficult jobs is very short.

If Scott Pethtel didn't do the best that anyone could've done in an impossible situation, I'm sure he came pretty darned close. But, at the same time, I do understand that NPU has to protect its bottom line in terms of recruiting numbers, particularly in a school year in which NPU fell ominously short of its overall admissions target.

I am sure there are other people on the planet who can coach this team, probably quite a few who can get this team to the next level. (One of many levels above them.)

I wish that I could agree with you, Pat. But thirty-plus years of personal observation, and the crushing weight of CCIW history, forces me to believe otherwise. And NPU's inability to win at football is not some bizarre historical fluke, either. There are endemic factors that hold down NPU's ability to recruit a sufficient number of CCIW-grade football players to be competitive.

What North Park must do, in my opinion, is act quickly. I don't think the program can afford to lose an entire recruiting class by taking a long time to make a hire.

I do certainly agree with that.

Pat,  you are absolutely right in that North Park really needs to make the decision in quicly albeit without recklessness i.e. being thorough.  It will be a disaster if they wait long like a couple of the other schools did a couple of years ago or so.  BTW, has it come out yet whether the school administration made the decision or if it was Pethel's? I didn't see any announcements/comments regarding that on their athletic website (although I suspect it was the former).

"Disaster" is a relative term.

Scott was let go. It was not his decision. And, as I said before, you probably won't see an announcement from NPU about it. The current policy appears to be to quietly part ways with a coach and then just post the job opening on the school website (and NCAA News and d3jobs.com) without any fanfare.

The NPU website has "Head Coach - to be announced" on the coaching staff page.

Regardless of the reason for his departure, could we show him the respect of getting his name right: it is Pethtel, not Pethel.

Thanks, Chuck. It just sounds persnickety coming from me, but, yeah, he does deserve the respect of having his name spelled correctly.