FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[USee]

Well said Mugsy. I think Wheaton's athletic budget for football is at, or near, the bottom of the league. I know Mike Swider goes down to Texas 1x a year and stays/eats with alums or parents of players to save money. The Endowment is not funding the athletic budget, that's for sure.

[AndOne]

Wow. LanghorstG, you get an official "J.O.P." for that post. I trust you know what that means.

I am a little surprised to see the strong reaction to 321Go's post. You have a Wheaton poster who has a grand total of 2 posts in his/her career and you guys go off on a dissertation on the failures of Wheaton football. I expected the reaction from AndOne, who likes to take all opportunities to play the Cardinal scorned card, but LG, you surprised me (a little).

I think the rumors Wheaton's demise are greatly exaggerated.

USee--

It may be my investigative background and/or inquisitive nature, but I still have the suspicion that 321 may either be a player or a player's dad. 

As far as WC's "demise," I doubt they will ever fall to that level.
You could go 8-2 in football every year and 20-5 in basketball and you would not be in the "demise" category.

[AndOne]

Mugsy & Usee,

OK, throw out the endowment segment. Probably a stretch on my part. However, you just can't convince me that more kids don't initially recruit themselves to Wheaton than do kids to other schools. As you said, they most of all need to have a faith consistent with the mission of Wheaton. However, if they have that faith, how many choices do they have, and isn't Wheaton considered one of the prime destinations in the country for a Christ centered college education?
As far as "they still have to convince the (far away) kid to come to Wheaton, IL.," evidently thats not really much of a problem. All you have to do for proof is look at any Wheaton roster. There are kids from coast to coast on every one. Look at this year's basketball roster. Of 19 players, 6 are from IL. LESS THAN 1/3RD. Come on guys, the evidence is in. 

[AndOne]

There is no question Spencer Stanek has secured the POY award for the CCIW. His numbers are impressive to say the least:

264 yds per game, 108-149  for 1422 yds, 19 TDs and just 1.5 INT's ( ), 72% completion rate.

If he continues to play like that in the playoffs, I think the Cardinals can get back to the semis.

As far as DPOY, I think whomever John Thorne nominates is the winner. You can make an arguement for Slezak or Dierking. Both have been dominant this year. I don't see another player in the conference that stands out more than the best 2 defenders on the best defensive team. Westering has been good, a couple guys on IWU have played really well and Wheaton has had a solid defense all year but NCC has been better than all those so to the victors go the spoils.

Spencer Stanek has truly had a remarkable season.
Not only within the CCIW or regionally, but here are his current national rankings:

2013-14   Passing Efficiency    2    192.9   
2013-14   Total Offense    25    302.2   
2013-14   Passing Yards    23    2394.0   
2013-14   Passing Yards Per Game    26    266.0   
2013-14   Points Responsible For    3    204.0   
2013-14   Points Responsible For Per Game    4    22.7   
2013-14   Passing TDs    5    28.0   
2013-14   Completion Percentage    2    0.749

[321GO]

First, I apologize to those who took offense to my post. It came across harsh. Congrats to NCC, for doing what WHEATON has failed to do, again. To Spencer Stanek, my apology to you as you have performed like a champion, and I wasn't taking away from anything you have done.
Secondly, some of these post seem to spell out the frustration of Wheaton football over the past 5years. I don't think highlighting a coaches career record allows for stating on. If your not looking at 10-0 (like NCC) and Salem in December, then what are you looking for?
Maybe I'm missing something here? I guess I'm not the only one scratching their head after Saturday...

[USee]

First, I apologize to those who took offense to my post. It came across harsh. Congrats to NCC, for doing what WHEATON has failed to do, again. To Spencer Stanek, my apology to you as you have performed like a champion, and I wasn't taking away from anything you have done.
Secondly, some of these post seem to spell out the frustration of Wheaton football over the past 5years. I don't think highlighting a coaches career record allows for stating on. If your not looking at 10-0 (like NCC) and Salem in December, then what are you looking for?
Maybe I'm missing something here? I guess I'm not the only one scratching their head after Saturday...

I plugged your post into Google translator but got a "translation failed" message. Sorry, you will have to try this again in plain english please.

[USee]

Mugsy & Usee,

OK, throw out the endowment segment. Probably a stretch on my part. However, you just can't convince me that more kids don't initially recruit themselves to Wheaton than do kids to other schools. As you said, they most of all need to have a faith consistent with the mission of Wheaton. However, if they have that faith, how many choices do they have, and isn't Wheaton considered one of the prime destinations in the country for a Christ centered college education?
As far as "they still have to convince the (far away) kid to come to Wheaton, IL.," evidently thats not really much of a problem. All you have to do for proof is look at any Wheaton roster. There are kids from coast to coast on every one. Look at this year's basketball roster. Of 19 players, 6 are from IL. LESS THAN 1/3RD. Come on guys, the evidence is in. 

All you have to do is ask players curently on the roster at Wheaton. Just because a kid has faith, doesn't put him in the Wheaton pool. Wheaton has to find a kid with their kind of faith JUST TO BE EVEN with other CCIW schools. Then they have to convince those kids that Wheaton is the place for them. The existence of faith doesn't mean a kid wants a christian education. Plenty of christian kids go to Ivy leagues, military academies, or other schools. In fact, Wheaton has to work hard to convince kids that a christian education can be valuable in the real world as the stigma is exactly the opposite.

And they recruit nationally because they HAVE TO not necessarily because they want to. Most CCIW schools can turn over rocks in the Chicago area to find their pool of recruits. Wheaton's uniqueness requires a national sweep of available talent. You will most certainly find the absolute numbers of recruites Wheaton is dealing with is dramatically lower than their CCIW counterparts.

Don't let the facts get in the way of your story though.

[Titan Q]

To call Wheaton's recruiting dynamic "a tremendous advantage" is some serious irrational exuberance. That's simply not the case.

Agree -- I don't see Wheaton having an inherent advantage in recruiting.  And I don't think kids "recruit themselves" to Wheaton.

As far as I can see, no school has a bigger recruiting advantage in CCIW football today than North Central in terms of:

* Program strength
* Facilities
* Location
* Total cost relative to other top CCIW programs
* Ability to get kids admitted academically relative to other top CCIW programs

Of all the CCIW schools, I think NCC is set-up the best, by far, to land great football talent.

[Langhorst_Ghost]

Wow. LanghorstG, you get an official "J.O.P." for that post. I trust you know what that means.

I am a little surprised to see the strong reaction to 321Go's post. You have a Wheaton poster who has a grand total of 2 posts in his/her career and you guys go off on a dissertation on the failures of Wheaton football. I expected the reaction from AndOne, who likes to take all opportunities to play the Cardinal scorned card, but LG, you surprised me (a little).

Losing 2x in 10 years to Elmhurst is underperforming? Good heavens, call the Provost. Mike Swider has a .772 winning percentage in 16 years as the head coach. He has won 6 conference titles and is the only CCIW coach without a losing record to John Thorne. The Thunder's victory at NCC last year has long been documented. North Central brings in 150+ players and tries to find 1 all conference player in every 10. That's the Mt Union way. It has worked. The reality is Wheaton can't do that. They have resource limitations (How many full time FB coaches does NCC and IWU have?) and the profile they search for is hard to find. If you want to say losing  and being able to replace the best receiver in D3 is underperforming then fine. If you want to say losing your best defensive player after 1 play @IWU is underperforming, that's fine too. The fact is Wheaton has good players behind those guys, but not POY type of depth. Never has and never will. So when they lose key players, they will have guys to step in and step up, but they don't have all conference talent sitting on the bench. Even with the injuries they had this year they had a chance to beat IWU in Bloomington (I bet those two teams split 10 games played on a neutral field) and played NCC pretty tough overall. I think Wheaton is still a top 25 team, just not a top 10 team this year. With Hiben, Vargyas, Velling, Luke Thorson, Grayson Roberts, and Dykstra all playing and healthy, I like this team as a deep playoff team. Without them, they are 8-2. So goes the bounce of the ball.

It's tough to win football games in D3 and Mike Swider's Thunder have been a conference contender every single year since he took over as head coach (92-27-0). We will see how long John Thorne's run lasts in Naperville and where he compares, but right now I don't see anyone else doing what Mike Swider has done over the same period of time.

I think the rumors Wheaton's demise are greatly exaggerated.

Usee, i respect your opinion, and i have a lot of respect for the insight you bring to the board - always fair and well-presented.

You are, however, mis-representing my take (If by JOP you are suggesting i am "jumping on the pile"...which is something i definitely did as a defensive back to rack up a few extra half-tackles in the box score, but that's not really relevant here  )

I'm not suggesting the Fighting Swiders fold up the program - I am simply presenting the idea that physically, Wheaton should be dominating the conference as their southern DuPage counterpart has done for the better part of a decade...not going 7-3, 8-2, and making excuses for not making the playoffs. 

I am sure you've been around the league long enough to see the clear advantage the Thunder bring with then off the bus every weekend - this is not a controversial take (in fact, every coach in the league and any one who has lined up across from the Thunder would concur), it's just the reality of things...Wheaton, on balance, is most often the most physically impressive and athletically talented roster in the league year to year.  My post is simply presenting the take that they have not been as dominant as they SHOULD be, considering my stated points.

As an avid CCIW loyalist, i can assure you that presenting your list of Wheaton football accomplishments is not really necessary - i get it, we all get it.  But having prepared for the Thunder as a coach and as a player, i can tell you with complete confidence that they pose the most significant physical challenges (size, strength, speed) of any team in the league.  Under-performing  at 8-2 is a position in which most teams in the country would love to be, but all things considered, from my perspective, they have still under-performed.

[321GO]

First, I apologize to those who took offense to my post. It came across harsh. Congrats to NCC, for doing what WHEATON has failed to do, again.

Spencer Stanek has performed like a champion, and I wasn't taking away from anything what he has done.

Some of the recent posts seem to spell out the frustration of Wheaton football over the past few years,

If your goal is not 10-0 like NCC and playing in Salem, Va. in December, then what are you looking for? Referring to the goal being winning the Bell?

I plugged your post into Google translator but got a "translation failed" message. Sorry, you will have to try this again in plain english please.

Try it again, as I'm not sure what you are referring to, but your sarcasm is taken.

Sounds like this "CCIW open board" is not for everyone, just those who choose to feel that anyone new here is not welcome to comment, whether they have their facts right or not.  I would suggest, unless you've played on the field, been part of a national championship program, and/ or coached at this level, don't always assume others don't know what they are talking about.  (Sorry for any typos or grammatical errors)

[CardinalAlum]

Wow, a full day of meetings and I come back to read that the sky has fallen in Wheaton!  There is no demise in Wheaton!  Mike Swider's is one of the best football coaches in the country and he will always field good football teams that play hard for him.   

[USee]

First, I apologize to those who took offense to my post. It came across harsh. Congrats to NCC, for doing what WHEATON has failed to do, again. To Spencer Stanek, my apology to you as you have performed like a champion, and I wasn't taking away from anything you have done.
Secondly, some of these post seem to spell out the frustration of Wheaton football over the past 5years. I don't think highlighting a coaches career record allows for stating on. If your not looking at 10-0 (like NCC) and Salem in December, then what are you looking for?
Maybe I'm missing something here? I guess I'm not the only one scratching their head after Saturday...

I plugged your post into Google translator but got a "translation failed" message. Sorry, you will have to try this again in plain english please.

321, Just to be clear, the highlighted part of your post above is the part I didn't understand. I see your removed it from your re-post.

Personally, I welcome your thoughts to the board. I understand your frustration. I have, at times, been the only one criticizing my own team so a critical eye is always welcome.

I think Wheaton has a goal of 10-0 each year. But it's pretty hard to do in the CCIW, which makes NCC's accomplishments all the more impressive. Winning the Bell is an obvious goal, and that is elevated by the fact that winning the Bell usually means winning the conference as well. Wheaton hasn't gotten that done this year and they were a coaching error away from doing it last year, which is frustrating. There isn't a CCIW team with more success than Wheaton in the playoffs over the past 10 years, the most recent 3 seasons notwithstanding. That said,  I don't think any CCIW team has overwhelmed anyone with their playoff prowess lately.

[Gregory Sager]

Additionally, given the geographic reach of the recruiting philosophy and the over-arching and omnipresent faith component to the mission of both the program and the institution, finding talent to reload this roster does not seem to be a significant challenge for a school with the resources of Wheaton.

As a North Park alumnus, I'm the last person in the world who is inclined to speak up for Wheaton. But what the Wheaton fans have told you in reply to your statement is true, LGhost. I have what I consider to be a pretty good amount of insider knowledge of that school for a non-Wheatie, and I can assure you that recruiting student-athletes for Wheaton is a much more difficult undertaking than you're making it seem.

Wow. LanghorstG, you get an official "J.O.P." for that post. I trust you know what that means.

I never thought I'd live to see the day when a Wheaton alumnus would make me search www.urbandictionary.com to look up an insult.

I am a little surprised to see the strong reaction to 321Go's post. You have a Wheaton poster who has a grand total of 2 posts in his/her career and you guys go off on a dissertation on the failures of Wheaton football. I expected the reaction from AndOne, who likes to take all opportunities to play the Cardinal scorned card, but LG, you surprised me (a little).

Losing 2x in 10 years to Elmhurst is underperforming? Good heavens, call the Provost. Mike Swider has a .772 winning percentage in 16 years as the head coach. He has won 6 conference titles and is the only CCIW coach without a losing record to John Thorne. The Thunder's victory at NCC last year has long been documented. North Central brings in 150+ players and tries to find 1 all conference player in every 10. That's the Mt Union way. It has worked. The reality is Wheaton can't do that. They have resource limitations (How many full time FB coaches does NCC and IWU have?) and the profile they search for is hard to find. If you want to say losing  and being able to replace the best receiver in D3 is underperforming then fine. If you want to say losing your best defensive player after 1 play @IWU is underperforming, that's fine too. The fact is Wheaton has good players behind those guys, but not POY type of depth. Never has and never will. So when they lose key players, they will have guys to step in and step up, but they don't have all conference talent sitting on the bench. Even with the injuries they had this year they had a chance to beat IWU in Bloomington (I bet those two teams split 10 games played on a neutral field) and played NCC pretty tough overall. I think Wheaton is still a top 25 team, just not a top 10 team this year. With Hiben, Vargyas, Velling, Luke Thorson, Grayson Roberts, and Dykstra all playing and healthy, I like this team as a deep playoff team. Without them, they are 8-2. So goes the bounce of the ball.

It's tough to win football games in D3 and Mike Swider's Thunder have been a conference contender every single year since he took over as head coach (92-27-0). We will see how long John Thorne's run lasts in Naperville and where he compares, but right now I don't see anyone else doing what Mike Swider has done over the same period of time.

I think the rumors Wheaton's demise are greatly exaggerated.

Very well stated, Obi-Wan -- especially the distinction between the North Central method of roster construction and the Wheaton method.

Last time I'll say this because I've said it again and again.  The size of Wheaton's endowment has NOTHING to do with the size of the athletic budget.  The athletic budget is set by the administration and based on discussions I've had with coaches and alum over the years, Wheaton's budget is not extravagant or excessive.  I know how hard they work to keep the program at the level it is based on the resources they have.  I know how much they would like to do, but don't have the budget to do so.  Wheaton has lost more outstanding position coaches over the years because the budget does not allow them to be paid enough to live in the western suburbs. Up until a few years ago, Wheaton football alum could not give money to the athletic budget and have it earmarked for a specific fundraising initiative for the football program.  It would go to the general athletic fund.

My friendship with the late Dave Lawrenz opened my eyes to a lot of this stuff regarding Wheaton's institutional reluctance to support WC athletics to anywhere near the degree to which it's capable of doing so, particularly under the school's last president. Dave worked in the WC administration and was also as devoted a Wheaton alumnus as there ever was, particularly where sports are concerned -- but he was also pretty frank about the fact that some of Wheaton's movers and shakers don't much care for athletics or see it as a useful or worthy arm of the school. People look at the massive endowment, the very nice facilities, and the haute bourgeois profile of the student body, and immediately assume that the athletic department is swimming in dough. But that money is there only if the administration wants to give it to athletics -- and the WC administration has been comparatively much more parsimonious with its resources, vis-à-vis athletics, than have other schools. (Wheaton is the anti-Carthage in terms of both general student mores and behavior and the proportion of the school's resources that are diverted to athletics. )

In theory, Wheaton has the resources to blow every school in this league out of the water if it chose to follow the model of a Carthage or an Adrian in terms of putting the institutional accent upon athletics. If Wheaton's administration really cared that deeply about sports, we wouldn't be having this discussion -- instead, we'd be having the discussion that this league and its followers had in the late 1950s, when the rest of the CCI (no 'W' yet at that point) unceremoniously asked Wheaton to leave the league because it was simply crushing everybody else in the major sports. (Except baseball -- for reasons I've yet to fathom, Wheaton has never done well at sports that involve bats and gloves.) But the simple fact of the matter is that Wheaton's administration not only does not choose to give the resources to make the school the league's dominant all-sports force again, it's actually fairly stingy when compared to other CCIW schools.

I already blathered enough on this topic... but it bugs me that people assume it must be easier for Wheaton when they don't have any concrete knowledge with which to base it on.

I hear you. Trying to rebut the assumptions that outsiders make about your alma mater can be wearying, especially when the same old misconceptions keep getting repeated online every year.

There simply is not a lot of awareness of a D3 school in suburban Chicago if you go to school in Los Angeles, San Francisco, Dallas, or Miami.

While I think that you and Mugsy have done an excellent job of spelling out the challenges that face the Wheaton program in terms of recruiting and coaching retention, Obi-Wan, your above statement is inaccurate. Wheaton enjoys widespread national awareness within the evangelical subculture. Some of that has to do with the school's academic excellence, but the larger part is the fact that, for decades, Wheaton and the surrounding suburbs were considered to be the hub of America's matrix of interdenominational evangelical institutions (Christianity Today, InterVarsity, etc.). And the close ties that America's most well-known evangelical, Billy Graham, had with his alma mater certainly didn't hurt in terms of keeping Wheaton in the forefront of the American evangelical consciousness, either.

Evangelical kids all across America know about Wheaton, and it's been that way for generations. If you're an East Coast evangelical kid, you know about Gordon and Houghton and Messiah and Eastern. If you're a West Coast evangelical kid, you know about Seattle Pacific and Westmont and Biola and Point Loma Nazarene. And if you're an evangelical kid here in the heartland, you could be aware of Taylor and the two Bethels, and maybe even a smaller, denominationally-affiliated school such as Grace or North Park or Judson or TIU or Anderson. But, no matter where you live, you know about Wheaton. Jerry Falwell's attempt to make his school, Liberty, the flagship evangelical institution, and the earlier efforts of Oral Roberts to do the same with his namesake school, fell far short of the mark if what they were trying to do was supplant Wheaton. Much as it irritates the rest of us, Wheaton is still the national media's go-to school when it comes to getting quotes or making commentary about American evangelical colleges and universities -- and, much as it irritates the rest of us, our schools still have to recruit against Wheaton regardless if our schools are located in southern California or Louisiana or Massachusetts or Chicago's 39th Ward.

Well said Mugsy. I think Wheaton's athletic budget for football is at, or near, the bottom of the league.

"Near"? Quite possibly. "At"? Very doubtful. I have a hard time believing that any CCIW football budget is smaller than NPU's. Counting pennies and saving dimes is an institutional credo at North Park, and it's been that way since the school was founded in 1891.

As you said, they most of all need to have a faith consistent with the mission of Wheaton. However, if they have that faith, how many choices do they have,

Dozens, Mark. Dozens and dozens. The list of evangelical four-year colleges and universities in the U.S. is huge. Just within the Chicagoland area you have:

North Park University
Wheaton College
Olivet Nazarene University
Judson College
Moody Bible Institute
Trinity International University
Trinity Christian College

(Plus Concordia University in River Forest, which, while not necessarily evangelical in the American sense of the word, is nevertheless a school that belongs to the rigorously conservative Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod denomination.)

If you include Concordia, there's five schools in that list that have football programs ... and that's just in our metro area.

If a high school student wants to get a higher education at an evangelical institution, he or she has an overwhelming number of schools from which to make that choice.

In fact, Wheaton has to work hard to convince kids that a christian education can be valuable in the real world as the stigma is exactly the opposite.

Very true. NPU has the same problem, as do all evangelical schools.

To call Wheaton's recruiting dynamic "a tremendous advantage" is some serious irrational exuberance. That's simply not the case.

Agree -- I don't see Wheaton having an inherent advantage in recruiting.  And I don't think kids "recruit themselves" to Wheaton.

As far as I can see, no school has a bigger recruiting advantage in CCIW football today than North Central in terms of:

* Program strength
* Facilities
* Location
* Total cost relative to other top CCIW programs
* Ability to get kids admitted academically relative to other top CCIW programs

Of all the CCIW schools, I think NCC is set-up the best, by far, to land great football talent.

Very well put, Bob. I agree 100%.

I'm not suggesting the Fighting Swiders fold up the program - I am simply presenting the idea that physically, Wheaton should be dominating the conference as their southern DuPage counterpart has done for the better part of a decade...not going 7-3, 8-2, and making excuses for not making the playoffs. 

What I think you're missing here, LGhost, is the attrition angle. The Wheaton posters have indirectly referred to it when listing this year's injuries, but the simple truth is that Wheaton is not very well set up at all to handle adversity in the attrition department, and it never has been. And football is a game of attrition. Other schools can recruit rosters of 120-150 players, winnow through all the dross and locate the All-CCIW players, and thrive with absolutely no problem when kids quit the program. And, with that kind of depth, they can (if they're really successful with this formula, a la North Central) weather the storm if there are key injuries.

Wheaton can't do that. Whereas other CCIW schools bring in 50 recruits a year, Wheaton brings in 30. Whereas other CCIW rosters regularly top 100 players with ease, Wheaton is usually somewhere in the 60-80 range. Wheaton tends to lose relatively few players to non-football issues; they seldom quit the team or decide not to come out for it again the following year, as the buy-in that Wheaton gets from its football players is nothing short of astonishing.

But it means that Wheaton lacks the sort of depth that an NCC or an IWU or even an Elmhurst or Augie usually has. Yeah, nobody looks more impressive coming off of the bus than Wheaton football players; but if the best ones get hurt, it doesn't matter how the rest of them look, because the dropoff in how they play can be pretty dramatic.

[USee]

Wow. LanghorstG, you get an official "J.O.P." for that post. I trust you know what that means.

I am a little surprised to see the strong reaction to 321Go's post. You have a Wheaton poster who has a grand total of 2 posts in his/her career and you guys go off on a dissertation on the failures of Wheaton football. I expected the reaction from AndOne, who likes to take all opportunities to play the Cardinal scorned card, but LG, you surprised me (a little).

Losing 2x in 10 years to Elmhurst is underperforming? Good heavens, call the Provost. Mike Swider has a .772 winning percentage in 16 years as the head coach. He has won 6 conference titles and is the only CCIW coach without a losing record to John Thorne. The Thunder's victory at NCC last year has long been documented. North Central brings in 150+ players and tries to find 1 all conference player in every 10. That's the Mt Union way. It has worked. The reality is Wheaton can't do that. They have resource limitations (How many full time FB coaches does NCC and IWU have?) and the profile they search for is hard to find. If you want to say losing  and being able to replace the best receiver in D3 is underperforming then fine. If you want to say losing your best defensive player after 1 play @IWU is underperforming, that's fine too. The fact is Wheaton has good players behind those guys, but not POY type of depth. Never has and never will. So when they lose key players, they will have guys to step in and step up, but they don't have all conference talent sitting on the bench. Even with the injuries they had this year they had a chance to beat IWU in Bloomington (I bet those two teams split 10 games played on a neutral field) and played NCC pretty tough overall. I think Wheaton is still a top 25 team, just not a top 10 team this year. With Hiben, Vargyas, Velling, Luke Thorson, Grayson Roberts, and Dykstra all playing and healthy, I like this team as a deep playoff team. Without them, they are 8-2. So goes the bounce of the ball.

It's tough to win football games in D3 and Mike Swider's Thunder have been a conference contender every single year since he took over as head coach (92-27-0). We will see how long John Thorne's run lasts in Naperville and where he compares, but right now I don't see anyone else doing what Mike Swider has done over the same period of time.

I think the rumors Wheaton's demise are greatly exaggerated.

Usee, i respect your opinion, and i have a lot of respect for the insight you bring to the board - always fair and well-presented.

You are, however, mis-representing my take (If by JOP you are suggesting i am "jumping on the pile"...which is something i definitely did as a defensive back to rack up a few extra half-tackles in the box score, but that's not really relevant here  )

I'm not suggesting the Fighting Swiders fold up the program - I am simply presenting the idea that physically, Wheaton should be dominating the conference as their southern DuPage counterpart has done for the better part of a decade...not going 7-3, 8-2, and making excuses for not making the playoffs. 

I am sure you've been around the league long enough to see the clear advantage the Thunder bring with then off the bus every weekend - this is not a controversial take (in fact, every coach in the league and any one who has lined up across from the Thunder would concur), it's just the reality of things...Wheaton, on balance, is most often the most physically impressive and athletically talented roster in the league year to year.  My post is simply presenting the take that they have not been as dominant as they SHOULD be, considering my stated points.

As an avid CCIW loyalist, i can assure you that presenting your list of Wheaton football accomplishments is not really necessary - i get it, we all get it.  But having prepared for the Thunder as a coach and as a player, i can tell you with complete confidence that they pose the most significant physical challenges (size, strength, speed) of any team in the league.  Under-performing  at 8-2 is a position in which most teams in the country would love to be, but all things considered, from my perspective, they have still under-performed.

Langhorst,

Let's break this down. Apparently you have spoken to every coach in the league and they ALL agree that Wheaton has a "clear advantage" through physical size and athleticism? Can you quantify that? The way I see it is this:

Offensive line:
IWU: 6'2.5" 274 lbs
Wheaton: 6'1" 265 lbs
NCC: 6'5" 271 lbs

or maybe you were referring to the WR's???

IWU: 6'1" 200 lbs
NCC: 6'3" 190 lbs
Wheaton: 5'9" 170

Defensive backs you say?

IWU: 6' 185
NCC: 5'10" 180
Wheaton: 5'11" 188

I can honestly say I have not seen a more athletic, powerful looking team than North Central this side of Alliance, Ohio. I don't think the athleticism of Bradley Hahn, Carson Gray and Nick Scheske is anyway superior to that of Matt Siegart, Niall Mulcahy and Zach Anderson. In fact, if you look at the matchups the DLine of IWU in Jerome, Worley and Schneider were exactly the reason Wheaton lost that game. And I didn't see where Sumonin, Todd and Dykstra put a whole lot of heat on Spencer Stanek last Saturday, did you?

I think your assertion as to the athleticism and strength of Wheaton is a fallacy. Show me the beef. I don't see it. You want to go through the Wheaton receiving corps and look at the matchups of Connor Douglas and Shane Dierking vs Langenmeier and Mitchell? Seriously? Ask Jordan Roberts who was open to throw it to. Now Wheaton is not bereft of talent and has some matchups that are certainly in their favor. Geary was clear evidence of that. and Brett Anderson was one of the more dominant LB's in the country this year. There are some physical specimens, but no more than the other top teams from my viewpoint.

Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue.............

[Gregory Sager]

NPU's win over Millikin may not have merited a story in the Decatur Herald-Review -- despite the rather insulting pregame article in that paper to which oldnuthin linked -- but it did get mentioned in this USA Today piece.

Also, congrats to NPU's Noah Moore on being named CCIW Special Teams Player of the Week for his game-winning field goal on Saturday.