FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Titan Q]

Watched the first 3 quarters of NCC/Bethel.  What a performance by the Cardinals - they looked outstanding.

Congratulations NCC and good luck next weekend in Alliance.  Would be great to see a CCIW team in the big game in Salem!

[BUDefender]

@USee: first, I appreciate the back and forth. Here's a quick response to what I'd regard as a very selective rebuttal.

A running back falling down in the open field is the field conditions. 2 players fell or slipped on every play. that was going to happen. The pitch on the option was aggressive defense. The NCC player hit the qb as he pitched it. Wasn't a bad pitch, just a good defensive effort.

True on the RB, they all played on the same field. As for Keefe's fumble. The D was there. But he made the pitch just before the hit. It was a horrendous pitch...like 4 yds behind a back who had no defenders around him. Still, you only addressed the one fumble by Keefe that Bethel didn't lose. How about those other 4 TO's. To recap. Fumble that NCC recovers on the BU 38. Fumble that NCC recovers on their own 33. Keefe INT at the BU 41. Keefe INT at the BU 4.

Time of possession was 31 min for Bethel, 29 min for NCC. Bethel had 14 possessions to NCC's 15 possessions. Your defense was tired playing less than 30 minutes? Don't think so. I agree Peterson produces more points. I just don't think he makes Bethel 4 TD's better and I think NCC could have kept the gas pedal down and scored 2-3 more time if they had to.

I didn't say they were tired. My point is that 1-11 on 3rd down is brutal. It's a stat Peterson never puts up, IMO. He didn't against UST, who has a better D IMO. There are points left on the field. And I think he maybe does make Bethel 4 TD's better. Shoot, 2 of Keefe's most inexplicable TO's came with the offense driving deep into NCC territory. That's 2 TD's right there. My bigger point, is that with Peterson playing NCC is stressed on D in a way they weren't with Keefe. They gave up 6.3 ypc to a team with very little passing threat, especially downfield. I'm not sure how much TOP changes, but the issue isn't how much longer Bethel has the ball, it's what they are doing with it and how their drives are finishing with Peterson.

We can't prove a negative and Peterson wasn't there but the players who played, NCC was better. Just like Wartburg was better than IWU and NCC was better than Wheaton. By the way, Wheaton played a home game, had an all american QB playing for them, a top15 defense that held NCC to less yards than Bethel and rushed for over 200 yds vs NCC and lost 35-16 because they weren't as good.

As I've said before, NCC was better today with the players on the field. I agree. I just think the statements that NCC is clearly the better team, period, finally, hasn't been substantiated. Bethel's best player, the MVP of one of the best conferences, didn't step on the field. The passing game is drastically better with him, the running game opens up as well. As to Wheaton, apples to oranges...you had your 'all american' QB playing for you. That's been my whole point, Bethel didn't. 

Back to the present. I'm getting intrigued by the NCC v. Mount matchup. As much as I obviously wanted to see Bethel in this spot, this could be a very interesting game. Mount seems vulnerable in the exact area where NCC is very strong. Stanzek could have a day in Alliance. Good luck, I'd love to see some new blood in the Stagg. But if I'm honest, even just Mount not there would be a nice change of pace.

I attended the game yesterday and had the chance to see every other MIAC team this year. I have to say that HB is spot on. NCC has a very good QB, an average defense according to MIAC standards and was the benefactor of 5 unforced errors by Bethel. The key to yesterday's game was a team's ability to throw the ball deep on occasion (and hold onto the ball). Bethel could not get that done with their QB, but dominated on both the offensive and defensive lines (Avg rush 6.3 BU vs. 3.4NC). If you actually read the box score, even "Mr. CCIW" (which I am not sure is saying much) was only 17-32 which is far below his CCIW 74% completion percentage.

For those who know, I see many similarities between NCC and Augsburg which is a team than can beat you on any given Saturday in the MIAC, but does not have the line presence to win consistently. Talented QB, good receiver and an all conference LB (much like NCC). They put up a lot of passing yards and can throw up a lot of points from time to time. The NCC defense is nowhere near a St. Thomas or Gustavus and their O-line is not as physical as BU or UST. Add Peterson to the mix and I would have expected a 38-28 Bethel win - based on what I saw on the field.

All this is said not because we can rewrite history, but to add some reality back to this board for the CCIW heading into Mount. If NCC brings this same game into Alliance next week they are looking at getting trouced and manhandled by a much larger and more physical UMU, just as they did by the Bethel O-line and front 7. My prediction for the semis: UMU 56, NCC 24 (and yet another purple Stagg Bowl)

Oh and one more thing - play like you expect to be there. The late hits and cheap shots in the Bethel game show that you felt you needed to prove you manhood. I would have been much more impressed if you had played with some class - once again, I was there and SAW it.

[BUDefender]

Didn't mean to short your QB. He was 15-27 (55%). Not 17-32 (53%). My bad.

[USee]

Guys,

I think some dude just came on here to compare Augsburg to North Central. Not even worthy of a response.

C'mon man.

[HScoach]

Early, unbiased line.   NCC is 4.5 point favorite.   

C'mon man!

Hmmm, interesting responses from the NCC guys and others.    A season long touting of how Stanek is the best NCC QB ever, going against a Mount defense that just gave up 628 yards and 8 TD passes in 3 quarters to an young, inexperienced QB with an average overall season and now you want to down play NCC?     Nice try.   Lou Holtz just called and wants his notebook back.

[New Tradition]

Early, unbiased line.   NCC is 4.5 point favorite.   

C'mon man!

Hmmm, interesting responses from the NCC guys and others.    A season long touting of how Stanek is the best NCC QB ever, going against a Mount defense that just gave up 628 yards and 8 TD passes in 3 quarters to an young, inexperienced QB with an average overall season and now you want to down play NCC?     Nice try.   Lou Holtz just called and wants his notebook back.

That's hilarious!  I was just going to accuse you guys of "Holtzing"!!

[USee]

@USee: first, I appreciate the back and forth. Here's a quick response to what I'd regard as a very selective rebuttal.

A running back falling down in the open field is the field conditions. 2 players fell or slipped on every play. that was going to happen. The pitch on the option was aggressive defense. The NCC player hit the qb as he pitched it. Wasn't a bad pitch, just a good defensive effort.

True on the RB, they all played on the same field. As for Keefe's fumble. The D was there. But he made the pitch just before the hit. It was a horrendous pitch...like 4 yds behind a back who had no defenders around him. Still, you only addressed the one fumble by Keefe that Bethel didn't lose. How about those other 4 TO's. To recap. Fumble that NCC recovers on the BU 38. Fumble that NCC recovers on their own 33. Keefe INT at the BU 41. Keefe INT at the BU 4.

Time of possession was 31 min for Bethel, 29 min for NCC. Bethel had 14 possessions to NCC's 15 possessions. Your defense was tired playing less than 30 minutes? Don't think so. I agree Peterson produces more points. I just don't think he makes Bethel 4 TD's better and I think NCC could have kept the gas pedal down and scored 2-3 more time if they had to.

I didn't say they were tired. My point is that 1-11 on 3rd down is brutal. It's a stat Peterson never puts up, IMO. He didn't against UST, who has a better D IMO. There are points left on the field. And I think he maybe does make Bethel 4 TD's better. Shoot, 2 of Keefe's most inexplicable TO's came with the offense driving deep into NCC territory. That's 2 TD's right there. My bigger point, is that with Peterson playing NCC is stressed on D in a way they weren't with Keefe. They gave up 6.3 ypc to a team with very little passing threat, especially downfield. I'm not sure how much TOP changes, but the issue isn't how much longer Bethel has the ball, it's what they are doing with it and how their drives are finishing with Peterson.

We can't prove a negative and Peterson wasn't there but the players who played, NCC was better. Just like Wartburg was better than IWU and NCC was better than Wheaton. By the way, Wheaton played a home game, had an all american QB playing for them, a top15 defense that held NCC to less yards than Bethel and rushed for over 200 yds vs NCC and lost 35-16 because they weren't as good.

As I've said before, NCC was better today with the players on the field. I agree. I just think the statements that NCC is clearly the better team, period, finally, hasn't been substantiated. Bethel's best player, the MVP of one of the best conferences, didn't step on the field. The passing game is drastically better with him, the running game opens up as well. As to Wheaton, apples to oranges...you had your 'all american' QB playing for you. That's been my whole point, Bethel didn't. 

Back to the present. I'm getting intrigued by the NCC v. Mount matchup. As much as I obviously wanted to see Bethel in this spot, this could be a very interesting game. Mount seems vulnerable in the exact area where NCC is very strong. Stanzek could have a day in Alliance. Good luck, I'd love to see some new blood in the Stagg. But if I'm honest, even just Mount not there would be a nice change of pace.

HB,

Thanks for providing rational thought behind your points. I understand completely. Two things to close this out: NCC showed what they could do against a top QB last week. They beat UWP by 28 pts. John Kelly, who has top 5 QB numbers, scored 1x more than he did in his loss to UWW and threw for 50 more yards. We seen to agree that EP would have made a huge difference in the game but differ in our opinion on the outcome. That's fair enough. Secondly, there is no z in Stanek. 

I think it's great NCC goes into the UMU game healthy. Wheaton went there 2x without their starting QB (injured the week before) and 2 other times without 1-2 of their best players. Didn't matter as UMU plays at a really high level.

I hope the "first timer" effect of playing in Alliance isn't an issue for NCC. I wonder how many times a team has advanced to the Stagg when playing the defending champs for the first time in the semis? Was UMHB a "first timer" in 2005?

I'll look it up.........

[Stagg Again!!]

@USee: first, I appreciate the back and forth. Here's a quick response to what I'd regard as a very selective rebuttal.

A running back falling down in the open field is the field conditions. 2 players fell or slipped on every play. that was going to happen. The pitch on the option was aggressive defense. The NCC player hit the qb as he pitched it. Wasn't a bad pitch, just a good defensive effort.

True on the RB, they all played on the same field. As for Keefe's fumble. The D was there. But he made the pitch just before the hit. It was a horrendous pitch...like 4 yds behind a back who had no defenders around him. Still, you only addressed the one fumble by Keefe that Bethel didn't lose. How about those other 4 TO's. To recap. Fumble that NCC recovers on the BU 38. Fumble that NCC recovers on their own 33. Keefe INT at the BU 41. Keefe INT at the BU 4.

Time of possession was 31 min for Bethel, 29 min for NCC. Bethel had 14 possessions to NCC's 15 possessions. Your defense was tired playing less than 30 minutes? Don't think so. I agree Peterson produces more points. I just don't think he makes Bethel 4 TD's better and I think NCC could have kept the gas pedal down and scored 2-3 more time if they had to.

I didn't say they were tired. My point is that 1-11 on 3rd down is brutal. It's a stat Peterson never puts up, IMO. He didn't against UST, who has a better D IMO. There are points left on the field. And I think he maybe does make Bethel 4 TD's better. Shoot, 2 of Keefe's most inexplicable TO's came with the offense driving deep into NCC territory. That's 2 TD's right there. My bigger point, is that with Peterson playing NCC is stressed on D in a way they weren't with Keefe. They gave up 6.3 ypc to a team with very little passing threat, especially downfield. I'm not sure how much TOP changes, but the issue isn't how much longer Bethel has the ball, it's what they are doing with it and how their drives are finishing with Peterson.

We can't prove a negative and Peterson wasn't there but the players who played, NCC was better. Just like Wartburg was better than IWU and NCC was better than Wheaton. By the way, Wheaton played a home game, had an all american QB playing for them, a top15 defense that held NCC to less yards than Bethel and rushed for over 200 yds vs NCC and lost 35-16 because they weren't as good.

As I've said before, NCC was better today with the players on the field. I agree. I just think the statements that NCC is clearly the better team, period, finally, hasn't been substantiated. Bethel's best player, the MVP of one of the best conferences, didn't step on the field. The passing game is drastically better with him, the running game opens up as well. As to Wheaton, apples to oranges...you had your 'all american' QB playing for you. That's been my whole point, Bethel didn't. 

Back to the present. I'm getting intrigued by the NCC v. Mount matchup. As much as I obviously wanted to see Bethel in this spot, this could be a very interesting game. Mount seems vulnerable in the exact area where NCC is very strong. Stanzek could have a day in Alliance. Good luck, I'd love to see some new blood in the Stagg. But if I'm honest, even just Mount not there would be a nice change of pace.

I attended the game yesterday and had the chance to see every other MIAC team this year. I have to say that HB is spot on. NCC has a very good QB, an average defense according to MIAC standards and was the benefactor of 5 unforced errors by Bethel. The key to yesterday's game was a team's ability to throw the ball deep on occasion (and hold onto the ball). Bethel could not get that done with their QB, but dominated on both the offensive and defensive lines (Avg rush 6.3 BU vs. 3.4NC). If you actually read the box score, even "Mr. CCIW" (which I am not sure is saying much) was only 17-32 which is far below his CCIW 74% completion percentage.

For those who know, I see many similarities between NCC and Augsburg which is a team than can beat you on any given Saturday in the MIAC, but does not have the line presence to win consistently. Talented QB, good receiver and an all conference LB (much like NCC). They put up a lot of passing yards and can throw up a lot of points from time to time. The NCC defense is nowhere near a St. Thomas or Gustavus and their O-line is not as physical as BU or UST. Add Peterson to the mix and I would have expected a 38-28 Bethel win - based on what I saw on the field.

All this is said not because we can rewrite history, but to add some reality back to this board for the CCIW heading into Mount. If NCC brings this same game into Alliance next week they are looking at getting trouced and manhandled by a much larger and more physical UMU, just as they did by the Bethel O-line and front 7. My prediction for the semis: UMU 56, NCC 24 (and yet another purple Stagg Bowl)

Oh and one more thing - play like you expect to be there. The late hits and cheap shots in the Bethel game show that you felt you needed to prove you manhood. I would have been much more impressed if you had played with some class - once again, I was there and SAW it.

Augsburg!?!?  Wow, that would mean that Bethel really stinks because they got pounded yesterday!  Don't know if you were at the game, but you saw a NCC coasting after the 1st quarter so as to not have any injuries for the next round given that the field was so poor and the playing conditions were awful.  They got up 21-3 and pulled back into very conservative play calling.  Didn't you notice whenever Bethel scored NCC would score on a 3-5 play drive?  NCC could score at will against what I thought was one of the weaker defenses that they had faced.  You saw nothing yesterday... Ask the folks at Albion and UWP.  Wow, Augsburg!!!  -K for you.

[ncc58]

Ouch. The Augsburg comparison was a little ugly, even for a guy with 3 posts. I'll just say that St. Thomas and Gustavus weren't on that field trying to get to the Semifinals.

Injuries happen. There have been years where NCC has had injuries that have affected their offense or defense substantially. Would like do overs, but that's how the game is played. Part of the challenge in getting to the UMU, UWW, and UMHB level is developing depth so that you can withstand injuries to your starting players.

In 2010, UWW QB Matt Blanchard was injured at the end of the season. Lee Brekke came in at QB and led the Warhawks through the playoffs to a Stagg Bowl title. That's what you need to to happen to be the champion. And that's the last nice thing I'll say about UWW this season.

I did find the Bethel broadcasting crew interesting as the game winded down. They seemed perplexed that North Central never used an actual huddle and said that NCC must have intimacy issues. Then, when two players were yapping at each other, the comment was that they were likely discussing a theological issue.

But maybe, you can get Usee to make a contribution to your stadium fund!

[USee]

Early, unbiased line.   NCC is 4.5 point favorite.   

C'mon man!

Hmmm, interesting responses from the NCC guys and others.    A season long touting of how Stanek is the best NCC QB ever, going against a Mount defense that just gave up 628 yards and 8 TD passes in 3 quarters to an young, inexperienced QB with an average overall season and now you want to down play NCC?     Nice try.   Lou Holtz just called and wants his notebook back.

Mark,

Don't sell the Wesley QB short. He had 633 and 8. He did throw 4 picks too! I get you are nervous for this week, but I think your boys will be fine. They have some experience and history to draw upon at this point in the season.

[ncc58]

Hmmm, interesting responses from the NCC guys and others.    A season long touting of how Stanek is the best NCC QB ever, going against a Mount defense that just gave up 628 yards and 8 TD passes in 3 quarters to an young, inexperienced QB with an average overall season and now you want to down play NCC?     Nice try.   Lou Holtz just called and wants his notebook back.

LOL. I've been waiting for a week for a Lou Holtz reference. Be sure to watch this week's NCC Red Zone where Coach Thorne recites more of his coachspeak that at least one UWW fan took exception to.

I hear that UMU has a pretty good QB too, any truth to that? It's NCC's first visit to UMU and when was the last time UMU lost in the playoffs to someone not named UWW? I'm not sure there would be many takers to a North Central team giving 4.5 points. I'll assume that we'll see the UMU team that won the first quarter 31-0, rather than the team that finished out the game. It should be a fun week.

[USee]

UMU has lost 2 games at home in the last decade plus. in the Semis in 2005 to UMHB and in the regular season to Ohio Northern in 2002?? something like that. It hasn't been pretty for visiting teams. And despite the great stadium and campus, the visiting locker room is a rat hole. On purpose.

[Stagg Again!!]

@USee: first, I appreciate the back and forth. Here's a quick response to what I'd regard as a very selective rebuttal.

A running back falling down in the open field is the field conditions. 2 players fell or slipped on every play. that was going to happen. The pitch on the option was aggressive defense. The NCC player hit the qb as he pitched it. Wasn't a bad pitch, just a good defensive effort.

True on the RB, they all played on the same field. As for Keefe's fumble. The D was there. But he made the pitch just before the hit. It was a horrendous pitch...like 4 yds behind a back who had no defenders around him. Still, you only addressed the one fumble by Keefe that Bethel didn't lose. How about those other 4 TO's. To recap. Fumble that NCC recovers on the BU 38. Fumble that NCC recovers on their own 33. Keefe INT at the BU 41. Keefe INT at the BU 4.

Time of possession was 31 min for Bethel, 29 min for NCC. Bethel had 14 possessions to NCC's 15 possessions. Your defense was tired playing less than 30 minutes? Don't think so. I agree Peterson produces more points. I just don't think he makes Bethel 4 TD's better and I think NCC could have kept the gas pedal down and scored 2-3 more time if they had to.

I didn't say they were tired. My point is that 1-11 on 3rd down is brutal. It's a stat Peterson never puts up, IMO. He didn't against UST, who has a better D IMO. There are points left on the field. And I think he maybe does make Bethel 4 TD's better. Shoot, 2 of Keefe's most inexplicable TO's came with the offense driving deep into NCC territory. That's 2 TD's right there. My bigger point, is that with Peterson playing NCC is stressed on D in a way they weren't with Keefe. They gave up 6.3 ypc to a team with very little passing threat, especially downfield. I'm not sure how much TOP changes, but the issue isn't how much longer Bethel has the ball, it's what they are doing with it and how their drives are finishing with Peterson.

We can't prove a negative and Peterson wasn't there but the players who played, NCC was better. Just like Wartburg was better than IWU and NCC was better than Wheaton. By the way, Wheaton played a home game, had an all american QB playing for them, a top15 defense that held NCC to less yards than Bethel and rushed for over 200 yds vs NCC and lost 35-16 because they weren't as good.

As I've said before, NCC was better today with the players on the field. I agree. I just think the statements that NCC is clearly the better team, period, finally, hasn't been substantiated. Bethel's best player, the MVP of one of the best conferences, didn't step on the field. The passing game is drastically better with him, the running game opens up as well. As to Wheaton, apples to oranges...you had your 'all american' QB playing for you. That's been my whole point, Bethel didn't. 

Back to the present. I'm getting intrigued by the NCC v. Mount matchup. As much as I obviously wanted to see Bethel in this spot, this could be a very interesting game. Mount seems vulnerable in the exact area where NCC is very strong. Stanzek could have a day in Alliance. Good luck, I'd love to see some new blood in the Stagg. But if I'm honest, even just Mount not there would be a nice change of pace.

I attended the game yesterday and had the chance to see every other MIAC team this year. I have to say that HB is spot on. NCC has a very good QB, an average defense according to MIAC standards and was the benefactor of 5 unforced errors by Bethel. The key to yesterday's game was a team's ability to throw the ball deep on occasion (and hold onto the ball). Bethel could not get that done with their QB, but dominated on both the offensive and defensive lines (Avg rush 6.3 BU vs. 3.4NC). If you actually read the box score, even "Mr. CCIW" (which I am not sure is saying much) was only 17-32 which is far below his CCIW 74% completion percentage.

For those who know, I see many similarities between NCC and Augsburg which is a team than can beat you on any given Saturday in the MIAC, but does not have the line presence to win consistently. Talented QB, good receiver and an all conference LB (much like NCC). They put up a lot of passing yards and can throw up a lot of points from time to time. The NCC defense is nowhere near a St. Thomas or Gustavus and their O-line is not as physical as BU or UST. Add Peterson to the mix and I would have expected a 38-28 Bethel win - based on what I saw on the field.

All this is said not because we can rewrite history, but to add some reality back to this board for the CCIW heading into Mount. If NCC brings this same game into Alliance next week they are looking at getting trouced and manhandled by a much larger and more physical UMU, just as they did by the Bethel O-line and front 7. My prediction for the semis: UMU 56, NCC 24 (and yet another purple Stagg Bowl)

Oh and one more thing - play like you expect to be there. The late hits and cheap shots in the Bethel game show that you felt you needed to prove you manhood. I would have been much more impressed if you had played with some class - once again, I was there and SAW it.

Augsburg!?!?  Wow, that would mean that Bethel really stinks because they got pounded yesterday!  Don't know if you were at the game, but you saw a NCC coasting after the 1st quarter so as to not have any injuries for the next round given that the field was so poor and the playing conditions were awful.  They got up 21-3 and pulled back into very conservative play calling.  Didn't you notice whenever Bethel scored NCC would score on a 3-5 play drive?  NCC could score at will against what I thought was one of the weaker defenses that they had faced.  You saw nothing yesterday... Ask the folks at Albion and UWP.  Wow, Augsburg!!!  -K for you.

I believe that UWSP, Wheaton, UWP and, on a good day, IWU would have beaten Bethel ... Regardless of whether BU had their starting QB.  BU's defense was very slow and had no answers whenever NCC passed the ball.  The only incompletions Stanek had yesterday were drops due to the cold weather and sails.  Receivers were wide open all over the field.  I also believe that UWS, UWSP, Elmhurst, North Park, IWU, and Wheaton all had better defenses than I saw yesterday.  I am still trying to figure out which player was supposed to be like Matt Wenger, which is to say none was.

On the offensive side of the ball, Bethel had a huge OL with great quick feet.  They executed very will on running plays to the outside, but couldn't create wholes in the NCC DL.  I really like both of BU's RBs.  They were quick and effective.  Bethel's receivers created no separation.  It wouldn't have mattered if BU's starting QB were on the field, because nobody was open on most passing plays.  I only saw one or two pass plays down field that were well executed.  The majority of the rest of the pass attempts were quick passes to WRs in the flat.  It worked the first time or two, but was shut down after that.  I believe that while BU had the best RB combo and run-based OL that NCC had faced all year, their overall offense (including poor pass protection, slow WRs,unimaginative play-calling) was on par with UWL, but well behind UWP.

[HScoach]

From my failing memory.   Recent Mount home losses.

2005 regualr season to Ohio Northern
2004 semi-finals to MHB
1999 semi-finals to Rowan in OT
1994 ?   Can't remember if regular season or not.  Too long ago.  Playoff loss I remember at Albion 34-33.

[Stagg Again!!]

I'm looking forward to seeing who will host next week NCC or The Mount.  NCC did have a stronger SOS!