FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[02 Warhawk]

I was quite shocked that IWU fell from #21 and 133 points to ZERO points.  Simpson is likely the #2 IIAC team and (like Dubuque and Rowan) almost certainly a top 50 team.  Simpson won decisively, but it's not like it was a monkey-stomp.  I wasn't surprised they fell out of the Top 25, but ZERO points??!!

Our friends who put together Kickoff say otherwise. But maybe they are going to be a lot better than projected.

[02 Warhawk]

I don't think getting beat by the 5th best team in the country by 21 pts is bad at all. I think giving up 7.6 yds per carry is atrocious. What I can guarantee you is that if Platteville gives up over 7 yds per carry going forward they won't win another game. You can't win football games giving up that kind of real estate.Now, UWP maybe played the game with 8 players or something absurd like that, but I would venture to guess they are over rated based on what I saw. Those are not cracks in the plaster, those are holes below the water line.

I think that could be said for any team. However, going forward, UWP doesn't have to play at NCC every week for the rest of the season. So it's safe to assume UWP might just win another game here and there the rest of the way. 

[robertgoulet]

Something that has been bugging me about the game, which I meant to post Saturday when I got home:

I understand the reason for starting Warden, as he adds a running threat from the QB position that Dicken clearly didn't have. I just wonder if he's the right choice for this year's Cardinal team. They're stacked at RB, and Sorenson is one of the best WRs they've ever had, IMO. Do you really need that running threat from the QB if he's not a good passer? I say "good" because it seemed Warden was just OK (or maybe less than OK). Dicken adds the threat with his arm from the pocket.

Thorne is probably (assuredly) smarter than I...but I think I'd be playing Dicken at QB. Let the RBs do the running and help maximize the talent at WR. Stretch the defenses more.

[USee]

I don't think getting beat by the 5th best team in the country by 21 pts is bad at all. I think giving up 7.6 yds per carry is atrocious. What I can guarantee you is that if Platteville gives up over 7 yds per carry going forward they won't win another game. You can't win football games giving up that kind of real estate.Now, UWP maybe played the game with 8 players or something absurd like that, but I would venture to guess they are over rated based on what I saw. Those are not cracks in the plaster, those are holes below the water line.

I think that could be said for any team. However, going forward, UWP doesn't have to play at NCC every week for the rest of the season. So it's safe to assume UWP might just win another game here and there the rest of the way. 

hmmm. Again, St Norbert somehow managed to hold NCC to 5.3 yds per carry. Where did you rank them? giving up more than you average to a top 5 team on the road is fairly normal but 7.6 yds per carry is somewhere near a 3-4 standard deviation result that tells me they just arent that good up front.  I won't beat a dead horse here but the proof will be in the pudding. UWP is not in my top 25. We will see if they can stop the run this week. I watched much of the second half.

[CardinalAlum]

Something that has been bugging me about the game, which I meant to post Saturday when I got home:

I understand the reason for starting Warden, as he adds a running threat from the QB position that Dicken clearly didn't have. I just wonder if he's the right choice for this year's Cardinal team. They're stacked at RB, and Sorenson is one of the best WRs they've ever had, IMO. Do you really need that running threat from the QB if he's not a good passer? I say "good" because it seemed Warden was just OK (or maybe less than OK). Dicken adds the threat with his arm from the pocket.

Thorne is probably (assuredly) smarter than I...but I think I'd be playing Dicken at QB. Let the RBs do the running and help maximize the talent at WR. Stretch the defenses more.

I share in your concern here.  Warden got himself out of a couple of situations against UWP where he should've been sacked, then had people running open and underthrew them badly.   I think he has to show more this week against UWSP.   On the flip side, he only had the one interception and I thought Sorenson was going to go up and get it but looked to jump too early.  For as much as Warden has run, he has taken pretty good care of the football.  I have been told by a few on the inside that Warden has the potential to be special, so I will trust that evaluation and try to be patient.....for another week!      

[badgerwarhawk]

I was quite shocked that IWU fell from #21 and 133 points to ZERO points.  Simpson is likely the #2 IIAC team and (like Dubuque and Rowan) almost certainly a top 50 team.  Simpson won decisively, but it's not like it was a monkey-stomp.  I wasn't surprised they fell out of the Top 25, but ZERO points??!!

If it's any consolation they are receiving points in the AFCA poll.
http://www.afca.com/article/article.php?id=2535

[02 Warhawk]

I don't think getting beat by the 5th best team in the country by 21 pts is bad at all. I think giving up 7.6 yds per carry is atrocious. What I can guarantee you is that if Platteville gives up over 7 yds per carry going forward they won't win another game. You can't win football games giving up that kind of real estate.Now, UWP maybe played the game with 8 players or something absurd like that, but I would venture to guess they are over rated based on what I saw. Those are not cracks in the plaster, those are holes below the water line.

I think that could be said for any team. However, going forward, UWP doesn't have to play at NCC every week for the rest of the season. So it's safe to assume UWP might just win another game here and there the rest of the way. 

hmmm. Again, St Norbert somehow managed to hold NCC to 5.3 yds per carry. Where did you rank them? giving up more than you average to a top 5 team on the road is fairly normal but 7.6 yds per carry is somewhere near a 3-4 standard deviation result that tells me they just arent that good up front.  I won't beat a dead horse here but the proof will be in the pudding. UWP is not in my top 25. We will see if they can stop the run this week. I watched much of the second half.

So by this logic, you must have dropped Bethel out of your top 25 after week two. Because they gave up nearly 500 yards of offense to Wartburg. And Wartburg is a good tier or two below NCC as a football program. No offense the Knights, I wish them the best in the IIAC.

I suppose this conversation can be moved to another board. But I was just thinking (and it looks like I'm far from alone) that ranking teams based on defensive stats isn't an accurate depiction.

I didn't rank St. Norbert at all....I don't see them beating anyone in the top 25.

[wally_wabash]

I was quite shocked that IWU fell from #21 and 133 points to ZERO points.  Simpson is likely the #2 IIAC team and (like Dubuque and Rowan) almost certainly a top 50 team.  Simpson won decisively, but it's not like it was a monkey-stomp.  I wasn't surprised they fell out of the Top 25, but ZERO points??!!

If it's any consolation they are receiving points in the AFCA poll.
http://www.afca.com/article/article.php?id=2535

More votes than the team that they scored an entire field goal against 48 hours ago!  Ah, the AFCA poll.

[robertgoulet]

Something that has been bugging me about the game, which I meant to post Saturday when I got home:

I understand the reason for starting Warden, as he adds a running threat from the QB position that Dicken clearly didn't have. I just wonder if he's the right choice for this year's Cardinal team. They're stacked at RB, and Sorenson is one of the best WRs they've ever had, IMO. Do you really need that running threat from the QB if he's not a good passer? I say "good" because it seemed Warden was just OK (or maybe less than OK). Dicken adds the threat with his arm from the pocket.

Thorne is probably (assuredly) smarter than I...but I think I'd be playing Dicken at QB. Let the RBs do the running and help maximize the talent at WR. Stretch the defenses more.

I share in your concern here.  Warden got himself out of a couple of situations against UWP where he should've been sacked, then had people running open and underthrew them badly.   I think he has to show more this week against UWSP.   On the flip side, he only had the one interception and I thought Sorenson was going to go up and get it but looked to jump too early.  For as much as Warden has run, he has taken pretty good care of the football.  I have been told by a few on the inside that Warden has the potential to be special, so I will trust that evaluation and try to be patient.....for another week!   

He seems to have a lot of athletic ability and throws a nice ball, but I know exactly the plays you're talking about. I just don't see things like that getting fixed as the season goes on. I'm normally opposed to a committee system (especially for QBs) but this would be one situation where I wouldn't mind seeing it.

[02 Warhawk]

It truly was an impressive win by NCC. I really thought UWP would take NCC down, with all that NCC lost from last year (and with what UWP was returning). I was dead wrong.

Coach Thorne knows what he's doing down there 

[USee]

I don't think getting beat by the 5th best team in the country by 21 pts is bad at all. I think giving up 7.6 yds per carry is atrocious. What I can guarantee you is that if Platteville gives up over 7 yds per carry going forward they won't win another game. You can't win football games giving up that kind of real estate.Now, UWP maybe played the game with 8 players or something absurd like that, but I would venture to guess they are over rated based on what I saw. Those are not cracks in the plaster, those are holes below the water line.

I think that could be said for any team. However, going forward, UWP doesn't have to play at NCC every week for the rest of the season. So it's safe to assume UWP might just win another game here and there the rest of the way. 

hmmm. Again, St Norbert somehow managed to hold NCC to 5.3 yds per carry. Where did you rank them? giving up more than you average to a top 5 team on the road is fairly normal but 7.6 yds per carry is somewhere near a 3-4 standard deviation result that tells me they just arent that good up front.  I won't beat a dead horse here but the proof will be in the pudding. UWP is not in my top 25. We will see if they can stop the run this week. I watched much of the second half.

So by this logic, you must have dropped Bethel out of your top 25 after week two. Because they gave up nearly 500 yards of offense to Wartburg. And Wartburg is a good tier or two below NCC as a football program. No offense the Knights, I wish them the best in the IIAC.

I suppose this conversation can be moved to another board. But I was just thinking (and it looks like I'm far from alone) that ranking teams based on defensive stats isn't an accurate depiction.

I didn't rank St. Norbert at all....I don't see them beating anyone in the top 25.

I agree ranking teams based on defensive stats isn't accurate. Don't think that's what I did. I take it you are smart enough to know the difference between total yards and yards per carry? What was Wartburg's yards per carry in their running game vs Bethel? (hint: 35 attempts for 91 yds). You don't need to agree with me but don't change my point either.

[02 Warhawk]

I agree ranking teams based on defensive stats isn't accurate. Don't think that's what I did. I take it you are smart enough to know the difference between total yards and yards per carry? What was Wartburg's yards per carry in their running game vs Bethel? (hint: 35 attempts for 91 yds). You don't need to agree with me but don't change my point either.

Then why all the commotion about not putting UWP in the top 25 because their DEFENSE gave up 7+ yards per carry?

NCC dismantled UWP today, they rushed for 303 yds on the ground averaging 7.6 yds per carry. While I know the NCC ground attack is formidable, I have a hard time believing UWP is a top 25 team, let alone a top 10 team, giving up 7.6 yds per carry.

[robertgoulet]

It truly was an impressive win by NCC. I really thought UWP would take NCC down, with all that NCC lost from last year (and with what UWP was returning). I was dead wrong.

Coach Thorne knows what he's doing down there 

I didn't get to the game until the end of the 1st quarter (at which point it was 21-0). Had you told me when I got there that it was 0-0, I would have come away thinking the teams were pretty evenly matched.

[USee]

I agree ranking teams based on defensive stats isn't accurate. Don't think that's what I did. I take it you are smart enough to know the difference between total yards and yards per carry? What was Wartburg's yards per carry in their running game vs Bethel? (hint: 35 attempts for 91 yds). You don't need to agree with me but don't change my point either.

Then why all the commotion about not putting UWP in the top 25 because their DEFENSE gave up 7+ yards per carry?

NCC dismantled UWP today, they rushed for 303 yds on the ground averaging 7.6 yds per carry. While I know the NCC ground attack is formidable, I have a hard time believing UWP is a top 25 team, let alone a top 10 team, giving up 7.6 yds per carry.

I know you know alot about football and since you are a Warhawk fan I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Good teams have good offensive and defensive lines. I am sure you will agree with that comment. Good defensive lines control the line of scrimmage. NCC reeled off 10 yd gain after 10 yd gain for 4 quarters. That's not a sign of an even reasonably good team from my experience.If you can't stop the run at all, you can't win games and won't end up in the top 25. So call it more of a prediction that a statement of fact if you want. 

[emma17]

I don't think getting beat by the 5th best team in the country by 21 pts is bad at all. I think giving up 7.6 yds per carry is atrocious. What I can guarantee you is that if Platteville gives up over 7 yds per carry going forward they won't win another game. You can't win football games giving up that kind of real estate.Now, UWP maybe played the game with 8 players or something absurd like that, but I would venture to guess they are over rated based on what I saw. Those are not cracks in the plaster, those are holes below the water line.

I think that could be said for any team. However, going forward, UWP doesn't have to play at NCC every week for the rest of the season. So it's safe to assume UWP might just win another game here and there the rest of the way. 

hmmm. Again, St Norbert somehow managed to hold NCC to 5.3 yds per carry. Where did you rank them? giving up more than you average to a top 5 team on the road is fairly normal but 7.6 yds per carry is somewhere near a 3-4 standard deviation result that tells me they just arent that good up front.  I won't beat a dead horse here but the proof will be in the pudding. UWP is not in my top 25. We will see if they can stop the run this week. I watched much of the second half.

So by this logic, you must have dropped Bethel out of your top 25 after week two. Because they gave up nearly 500 yards of offense to Wartburg. And Wartburg is a good tier or two below NCC as a football program. No offense the Knights, I wish them the best in the IIAC.

I suppose this conversation can be moved to another board. But I was just thinking (and it looks like I'm far from alone) that ranking teams based on defensive stats isn't an accurate depiction.

I didn't rank St. Norbert at all....I don't see them beating anyone in the top 25.

I agree ranking teams based on defensive stats isn't accurate. Don't think that's what I did. I take it you are smart enough to know the difference between total yards and yards per carry? What was Wartburg's yards per carry in their running game vs Bethel? (hint: 35 attempts for 91 yds). You don't need to agree with me but don't change my point either.

USee, I certainly get where you're coming from.  Yes, if UWP gives up over 7 yards per carry in every remaining game, they will likely lose them all. 
That said, NCC is not like any other opponent- maybe in the country.  NCC has had, IMO, a GREAT running game for many years now.  Very few teams can do what they do and very few can stop them.  Heck, in their 2012 playoff game vs Linfield Kukoc averaged 7.7 yards per carry on 25 carries (should have been 40 carries)- surely Linfield wasn't over-rated. 

Those of us that know UWP are very aware that they lack the line of scrimmage strength needed to contend for a national championship. 
That said, there are probably only 5 teams that do have the line of scrimmage strength to be the champion. 
I've always felt that outside the top 5 or so teams, the next 20-30 teams truly are "any given Saturday" types of teams- against each other.