FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[AndOne]

It truly was an impressive win by NCC. I really thought UWP would take NCC down, with all that NCC lost from last year (and with what UWP was returning). I was dead wrong.

Coach Thorne knows what he's doing down there 

Thats a prospect which had about as much chance as an ice cube in a microwave Warhawk. 
in the last six years (2008-13), NCC is 35-4 at home. 

And you' re certainly right about Coach Thorne.
Thorne's career mark after 12 seasons stands at an impressive 110-28 overall and 70-14 in the CCIW.Thorne is North Central's all-time leader in coaching victories and winning percentage (.797). He ranks seventh among all active coaches at the NCAA Division III level and 11th among all active college football coaches in winning percentage. Among all current or former coaches with at least 10 years of experience, Thorne ranks 11th all-time in Division III and 31st in the history of college football in winning percentage.

[AndOne]

Naperville Sun article on the NCC-UWP game:

http://napervillesun.suntimes.com/2014/09/20/north-central-college-makes-statement-behind-ryan-kent/

[AndOne]

Congrats to NCC's Ryan Kent on being named CCIW Offensive Player Of The Week:

http://northcentralcardinals.com/news/2014/9/22/FB_0922140650.aspx

[robertgoulet]

I agree ranking teams based on defensive stats isn't accurate. Don't think that's what I did. I take it you are smart enough to know the difference between total yards and yards per carry? What was Wartburg's yards per carry in their running game vs Bethel? (hint: 35 attempts for 91 yds). You don't need to agree with me but don't change my point either.

Then why all the commotion about not putting UWP in the top 25 because their DEFENSE gave up 7+ yards per carry?

NCC dismantled UWP today, they rushed for 303 yds on the ground averaging 7.6 yds per carry. While I know the NCC ground attack is formidable, I have a hard time believing UWP is a top 25 team, let alone a top 10 team, giving up 7.6 yds per carry.

I know you know alot about football and since you are a Warhawk fan I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Good teams have good offensive and defensive lines. I am sure you will agree with that comment. Good defensive lines control the line of scrimmage. NCC reeled off 10 yd gain after 10 yd gain for 4 quarters. That's not a sign of an even reasonably good team from my experience.If you can't stop the run at all, you can't win games and won't end up in the top 25. So call it more of a prediction that a statement of fact if you want.

USee, I may have missed your reply, but did you watch the game or are you just going off of stats? It was definitely not 10 yd gain after 10 yd gain for 4 quarters. Seems that it's USee on one side of this conversation and everyone else (including the D3 voters) on the other side.

[Kovo]

I agree ranking teams based on defensive stats isn't accurate. Don't think that's what I did. I take it you are smart enough to know the difference between total yards and yards per carry? What was Wartburg's yards per carry in their running game vs Bethel? (hint: 35 attempts for 91 yds). You don't need to agree with me but don't change my point either.

Then why all the commotion about not putting UWP in the top 25 because their DEFENSE gave up 7+ yards per carry?

NCC dismantled UWP today, they rushed for 303 yds on the ground averaging 7.6 yds per carry. While I know the NCC ground attack is formidable, I have a hard time believing UWP is a top 25 team, let alone a top 10 team, giving up 7.6 yds per carry.

I know you know alot about football and since you are a Warhawk fan I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Good teams have good offensive and defensive lines. I am sure you will agree with that comment. Good defensive lines control the line of scrimmage. NCC reeled off 10 yd gain after 10 yd gain for 4 quarters. That's not a sign of an even reasonably good team from my experience.If you can't stop the run at all, you can't win games and won't end up in the top 25. So call it more of a prediction that a statement of fact if you want.

USee, I may have missed your reply, but did you watch the game or are you just going off of stats? It was definitely not 10 yd gain after 10 yd gain for 4 quarters. Seems that it's USee on one side of this conversation and everyone else (including the D3 voters) on the other side.

Because USee's real point is that if UW-P was gashed by NCC then they must be terrible, certainly not a top 25 team, because in spite of their past success NCC isn't really that good this year.  Therefore, the Crusaders and others have a realistic chance to dethrone the Kings.  That really is the point of all this---isn't it?  It just appears that no one else agrees.

[Stagg Again!!]

USee, I certainly get where you're coming from.  Yes, if UWP gives up over 7 yards per carry in every remaining game, they will likely lose them all. 
That said, NCC is not like any other opponent- maybe in the country.  NCC has had, IMO, a GREAT running game for many years now.  Very few teams can do what they do and very few can stop them.  Heck, in their 2012 playoff game vs Linfield Kukoc averaged 7.7 yards per carry on 25 carries (should have been 40 carries)- surely Linfield wasn't over-rated. 

Those of us that know UWP are very aware that they lack the line of scrimmage strength needed to contend for a national championship. 
That said, there are probably only 5 teams that do have the line of scrimmage strength to be the champion. 
I've always felt that outside the top 5 or so teams, the next 20-30 teams truly are "any given Saturday" types of teams- against each other.

I think emma hit the nail on the head here USee.  Giving  up 7.7 ypc isn't good, but there are not that many teams that have the horses up front or in the backfield to do that to the UWP defense.  Don't forget that UWP also has TWO pre-season All-Americans on D in Zilbar and Austin.  Not a lot of teams can't match that.  I also wouldn't crutch too heavily on your SNC argument as NCC elected not to play the first half of that game and it really hurt their stats!  😜

[CardinalAlum]

 
Coming to USee's defense here.  He did already state that he watched the 2nd half.   In all of the years on these boards, USee has always brought clear, well thought out posts to this and every other board.   There is no way he is slighting UWP to make Wheaton or anyone else look better.   He respects NCC and during the playoffs is always the most logical voice for our league on this and other boards.  His knowledge of the game I would put up there with anyone.  Mugsy is another story....     

[Kovo]

Coming to USee's defense here.  He did already state that he watched the 2nd half.   In all of the years on these boards, USee has always brought clear, well thought out posts to this and every other board.   There is no way he is slighting UWP to make Wheaton or anyone else look better.   He respects NCC and during the playoffs is always the most logical voice for our league on this and other boards.  His knowledge of the game I would put up there with anyone.  Mugsy is another story....   

Coming to the defense of a rival.  +k for you!

[02 Warhawk]

It truly was an impressive win by NCC. I really thought UWP would take NCC down, with all that NCC lost from last year (and with what UWP was returning). I was dead wrong.

Coach Thorne knows what he's doing down there 

Thats a prospect which had about as much chance as an ice cube in a microwave Warhawk. 
in the last six years (2008-13), NCC is 35-4 at home. 

And you' re certainly right about Coach Thorne.
Thorne's career mark after 12 seasons stands at an impressive 110-28 overall and 70-14 in the CCIW.Thorne is North Central's all-time leader in coaching victories and winning percentage (.797). He ranks seventh among all active coaches at the NCAA Division III level and 11th among all active college football coaches in winning percentage. Among all current or former coaches with at least 10 years of experience, Thorne ranks 11th all-time in Division III and 31st in the history of college football in winning percentage.

Ha! Fair enough...but I was at the games when LaCrosse and whitewater gave NCC two of those 4 losses. I don't think I'm welcome in Naperville ever again.   

[Kovo]

It truly was an impressive win by NCC. I really thought UWP would take NCC down, with all that NCC lost from last year (and with what UWP was returning). I was dead wrong.

Coach Thorne knows what he's doing down there 

Thats a prospect which had about as much chance as an ice cube in a microwave Warhawk. 
in the last six years (2008-13), NCC is 35-4 at home. 


And you' re certainly right about Coach Thorne.
Thorne's career mark after 12 seasons stands at an impressive 110-28 overall and 70-14 in the CCIW.Thorne is North Central's all-time leader in coaching victories and winning percentage (.797). He ranks seventh among all active coaches at the NCAA Division III level and 11th among all active college football coaches in winning percentage. Among all current or former coaches with at least 10 years of experience, Thorne ranks 11th all-time in Division III and 31st in the history of college football in winning percentage.

I can't wait until CCIW play starts.  I'm becoming less and less of a fan of non-conference games (what time does the bus from Carroll arrive?).

With that said, there is no doubt that Thorne is the greatest coach in NCC history by far, and by every measure.  But, let me throw out this question for some mid-week discussion.  Who is the greatest coach in your institution's history?  Augie and Carthage appear pretty obvious.  What say you IWU guys?  Larson or Eash?  What about Wheaton, Swider or Bishop or perhaps you head back to the 50s? Millikin (Poelker? Neiber?)? North Park?  Elmhurst?  I would like to hear what you guys think.

[Mugsy]

Coming to USee's defense here.  He did already state that he watched the 2nd half.   In all of the years on these boards, USee has always brought clear, well thought out posts to this and every other board.   There is no way he is slighting UWP to make Wheaton or anyone else look better.   He respects NCC and during the playoffs is always the most logical voice for our league on this and other boards.  His knowledge of the game I would put up there with anyone.  Mugsy is another story....   

Coming to the defense of a rival.  +k for you!

Well, defending one and dinging another.  I'd view that is +k & -k for net no change.     But I'd expect no less from CardinalAlum.

[CardinalAlum]

Coming to USee's defense here.  He did already state that he watched the 2nd half.   In all of the years on these boards, USee has always brought clear, well thought out posts to this and every other board.   There is no way he is slighting UWP to make Wheaton or anyone else look better.   He respects NCC and during the playoffs is always the most logical voice for our league on this and other boards.  His knowledge of the game I would put up there with anyone.  Mugsy is another story....   

Coming to the defense of a rival.  +k for you!

Well, defending one and dinging another.  I'd view that is +k & -k for net no change.     But I'd expect no less from CardinalAlum.

Just making sure you were paying attention!!   

[CardinalAlum]

Hope the whole Mugsy clan is well!

[iwu70]

Larson and Eash about equal at this point, with a few more chapters of the Eash career to go. 

Overall in many sports, probably Horenberger IWU's greatest coach.  We have a street and a baseball field/complex named for him here.  The coach the students probably liked the best, admired in many ways, was Bob Keck. 

IWU70

[USee]

USee, I certainly get where you're coming from.  Yes, if UWP gives up over 7 yards per carry in every remaining game, they will likely lose them all. 
That said, NCC is not like any other opponent- maybe in the country.  NCC has had, IMO, a GREAT running game for many years now.  Very few teams can do what they do and very few can stop them.  Heck, in their 2012 playoff game vs Linfield Kukoc averaged 7.7 yards per carry on 25 carries (should have been 40 carries)- surely Linfield wasn't over-rated. 

Those of us that know UWP are very aware that they lack the line of scrimmage strength needed to contend for a national championship. 
That said, there are probably only 5 teams that do have the line of scrimmage strength to be the champion. 
I've always felt that outside the top 5 or so teams, the next 20-30 teams truly are "any given Saturday" types of teams- against each other.

I think emma hit the nail on the head here USee.  Giving  up 7.7 ypc isn't good, but there are not that many teams that have the horses up front or in the backfield to do that to the UWP defense.  Don't forget that UWP also has TWO pre-season All-Americans on D in Zilbar and Austin.  Not a lot of teams can't match that.  I also wouldn't crutch too heavily on your SNC argument as NCC elected not to play the first half of that game and it really hurt their stats!  😜

This stuff isn't even worth a reply.

So here is my new top 10:

1. NCC
2. Nobody
3. Nobody
4. NCC JV team
5. Nobody
6. Nobody
7. Tie: UMU/UWW (with a slight edge to UMU for playing NCC tough)
9. Nobody
10. Nobody