FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[USee]

I don't think there is any evidence that shows scheduling up helps you in the post season. Going forward, with less pool C bids, it will take on increasing significance. Mike Swider's strategy has been decidedly different. In the last 12 years Wheaton has been to the playoffs 6 times and via pool C 4 of those times. They have never played "up" in their schedule. They beat Bethel 2x a few years back and played Platteville when they were a below average WIAC team but Swider has always tried to find competitive middle tier schools to get his team ready. He believes the CCIW is too hard if you schedule teams where you get beat up early on. And he has "known" that 9-1 as a CCIW runner up gets you in the field in the past.

Times are changing. Less pool C's means 9-1 wouldn't get you in. In fact, Wheaton would have had a hard time getting in this year at 9-1. Schools from conferences who have weaker teams in the middle and at the bottom, have to try and schedule up to improve their profile. Most years the CCIW usually has 2 and sometimes 3 regionally ranked teams. That's plenty to improve your SOS. This year, the CCIW was a young league and lost more non-conference games than usual. That meant SOS wasn't as strong.  SOS isn't about just scheduling the top WIAC and MIAC teams. In 2010 Wheaton had a high SOS and scheduled Albion, Olivet and Platteville in a year none of them had a winning record. St Thomas played UWEC (1-9) and UWLaCrosse this year (3-7). They got in over NCC when both were on the table to pick. NCC had the higher SOS.

The fact is if NCC had scheduled Alma instead of UWSP this year they would be playing this week. And the "It's good for the program" bravado sounds important but it's not proven by the data. If you go 10-0/9-1 and make the playoffs, you will get all the "scheduling up" you need in November/December. Wheaton is about to play Benedictine and John Carroll. And if they are lucky, the prize for winning those games is Mt Union, followed by Wesley and UWW (or Wabash if you ask them  ).

I like what NCC has done. I would prefer to see teams "schedule up". If you are in a weaker conference you have to (See TLU and Wabash this year). The system has rewarded schools from stronger conferences who avoid the top teams. It shouldn't be that way but it is.

I get that argument but the reality is that other than the WIAC, there are not a lot of schools that are looking to put NCC on their schedule.

That's certainly true as well. Success puts you on an island where only the other top dogs, or would-be-top dogs want to face you. That's for the same reason. Teams don't want to have a loss going into their conference play.

[Kovo]

I don't think there is any evidence that shows scheduling up helps you in the post season. Going forward, with less pool C bids, it will take on increasing significance. Mike Swider's strategy has been decidedly different. In the last 12 years Wheaton has been to the playoffs 6 times and via pool C 4 of those times. They have never played "up" in their schedule. They beat Bethel 2x a few years back and played Platteville when they were a below average WIAC team but Swider has always tried to find competitive middle tier schools to get his team ready. He believes the CCIW is too hard if you schedule teams where you get beat up early on. And he has "known" that 9-1 as a CCIW runner up gets you in the field in the past.

Times are changing. Less pool C's means 9-1 wouldn't get you in. In fact, Wheaton would have had a hard time getting in this year at 9-1. Schools from conferences who have weaker teams in the middle and at the bottom, have to try and schedule up to improve their profile. Most years the CCIW usually has 2 and sometimes 3 regionally ranked teams. That's plenty to improve your SOS. This year, the CCIW was a young league and lost more non-conference games than usual. That meant SOS wasn't as strong.  SOS isn't about just scheduling the top WIAC and MIAC teams. In 2010 Wheaton had a high SOS and scheduled Albion, Olivet and Platteville in a year none of them had a winning record. St Thomas played UWEC (1-9) and UWLaCrosse this year (3-7). They got in over NCC when both were on the table to pick. NCC had the higher SOS.

The fact is if NCC had scheduled Alma instead of UWSP this year they would be playing this week. And the "It's good for the program" bravado sounds important but it's not proven by the data. If you go 10-0/9-1 and make the playoffs, you will get all the "scheduling up" you need in November/December. Wheaton is about to play Benedictine and John Carroll. And if they are lucky, the prize for winning those games is Mt Union, followed by Wesley and UWW (or Wabash if you ask them  ).

I like what NCC has done. I would prefer to see teams "schedule up". If you are in a weaker conference you have to (See TLU and Wabash this year). The system has rewarded schools from stronger conferences who avoid the top teams. It shouldn't be that way but it is.

I get that argument but the reality is that other than the WIAC, there are not a lot of schools that are looking to put NCC on their schedule.

Then with the MIAA Challenge and Carroll rejoining the league, play 9 games, and use the extra bye week to get healthy.

[ncc_fan]

I get that argument but the reality is that other than the WIAC, there are not a lot of schools that are looking to put NCC on their schedule.

Then with the MIAA Challenge and Carroll rejoining the league, play 9 games, and use the extra bye week to get healthy.

That may actually happen; NCC still hasn't found a 10th opponent for 2015.    Maybe Cornell would like to play the 2nd game of the two-year contract that they backed out of a few years ago.

[SaintsFAN]

I don't think there is any evidence that shows scheduling up helps you in the post season. Going forward, with less pool C bids, it will take on increasing significance. Mike Swider's strategy has been decidedly different. In the last 12 years Wheaton has been to the playoffs 6 times and via pool C 4 of those times. They have never played "up" in their schedule. They beat Bethel 2x a few years back and played Platteville when they were a below average WIAC team but Swider has always tried to find competitive middle tier schools to get his team ready. He believes the CCIW is too hard if you schedule teams where you get beat up early on. And he has "known" that 9-1 as a CCIW runner up gets you in the field in the past.

Times are changing. Less pool C's means 9-1 wouldn't get you in. In fact, Wheaton would have had a hard time getting in this year at 9-1. Schools from conferences who have weaker teams in the middle and at the bottom, have to try and schedule up to improve their profile. Most years the CCIW usually has 2 and sometimes 3 regionally ranked teams. That's plenty to improve your SOS. This year, the CCIW was a young league and lost more non-conference games than usual. That meant SOS wasn't as strong.  SOS isn't about just scheduling the top WIAC and MIAC teams. In 2010 Wheaton had a high SOS and scheduled Albion, Olivet and Platteville in a year none of them had a winning record. St Thomas played UWEC (1-9) and UWLaCrosse this year (3-7). They got in over NCC when both were on the table to pick. NCC had the higher SOS.

The fact is if NCC had scheduled Alma instead of UWSP this year they would be playing this week. And the "It's good for the program" bravado sounds important but it's not proven by the data. If you go 10-0/9-1 and make the playoffs, you will get all the "scheduling up" you need in November/December. Wheaton is about to play Benedictine and John Carroll. And if they are lucky, the prize for winning those games is Mt Union, followed by Wesley and UWW (or Wabash if you ask them  ).

I like what NCC has done. I would prefer to see teams "schedule up". If you are in a weaker conference you have to (See TLU and Wabash this year). The system has rewarded schools from stronger conferences who avoid the top teams. It shouldn't be that way but it is.

I get that argument but the reality is that other than the WIAC, there are not a lot of schools that are looking to put NCC on their schedule.

Call Thomas More.  I think they need a game, but I'm not sure which week.

[Kovo]

I get that argument but the reality is that other than the WIAC, there are not a lot of schools that are looking to put NCC on their schedule.

Then with the MIAA Challenge and Carroll rejoining the league, play 9 games, and use the extra bye week to get healthy.

That may actually happen; NCC still hasn't found a 10th opponent for 2015.    Maybe Cornell would like to play the 2nd game of the two-year contract that they backed out of a few years ago.

No way that Cornell would like to experience the level of preparation for their conference schedule that NC would offer them in Naperville next year.

[Langhorst_Ghost]

Best of luck to the Thunder as they roll into the post-season - make the CCIW family proud! 

Wheaton was certainly the class of the conference this year, and the most athletic and talented group i saw play all year - i believe they definitely have a chance to make some noise.  i am sure saving Pelz Saturday was just a precaution (Usee - any insight?) - with that kid at the trigger the Thunder O can really rumble.

Great early chances for the Crusaders, should overwhelm BU, setting up a possible match-up with a tough, but winnable 2nd rounder.  As i look around the bracket at who some the "top seeded favorites" may have to deal with on Thanksgiving weekend in round two, can't help but think Swider and the gang got a terrific draw all things considered.  A purple team awaits in a possible December regional final, but as we all witnessed last December, a CCIW champ can definitely hang with the Mount!

[HoosierRedMan]

I was actually pretty impressed with the personnel Carthage has on their team. Their QB is pretty effective and they have some defensive players who are very good athletes. Also a fairly young team, Carthage is another CCIW team that is improving, despite a tough year.

Overall, having seen all the CCIW teams, it makes sense the conference struggled in non conference play. I think all the top teams had large senior classes (24 for NCC, 29 for Wheaton and 32 for IWU). All of these teams started a lot of underclassmen. In addition, Carthage, NPU, and Augie are pretty young overall. All of these teams played better as the season wore on. I expect the CCIW to be much better overall next season.

Glad to hear Carthage is improving.  Hopefully, the underclassmen stay in school and continue to play for Carthage.  With my son, now coaching on Friday nights, it tough to get to Kenosha for a game.  Let's see if the RedMen can get back above .500 next year.

[Gregory Sager]

Well, it's pretty clear Greg and Q weren't at the IWU-NPU game.  With the one changed INT on the deflection which led to a NP score, the final easily could have been 42-14, not the final which was 35-21.  Greg, the last time I checked 4 TDs is 28 points and had that scored happened the Titans would have won by 4 TDs.  I think most would consider a 35-21 win, surely a 42-14 win a pretty good smackdown.

Mugsy and Mr. B have already refuted your points, Mark. But I want to reiterate what Mr. B said. I broadcasted the game, so I know what I'm talking about -- and there's about a dozen dead flies lying in the windowsill of the Tucci Stadium press box as mute witness of my presence there on Saturday. I was swatting them left and right before the game like King Kong knocking down biplanes while perched atop the Empire State Building.

Seriously, it was totally bizarre how many flies there were in that pressbox, particularly since the weather outside was freezing and the windows were closed. They were all over the windows. The WJBC radio guy said that the press box had been filled with flies the previous time that he had called a Titans game as well. This is not a reflection upon IWU SID Stew Salowitz, a great guy and a genial host who was very generous in offering the NPU broadcaster (me) access to the press box deli platter, but somebody really needs to stock the Tucci press box with a flyswatter.

[badgerwarhawk]

Not meaning to nitpick but 4 touchdowns is actually only worth 24 points.    The seventh point is not automatically awarded when a touchdown is scored.  You still have to earn it.

[Gregory Sager]

Not meaning to nitpick but 4 touchdowns is actually only worth 24 points.    The seventh point is not automatically awarded when a touchdown is scored.  You still have to earn it.

Aw, go ahead and nitpick, bw. There's always plenty of room when we dogpile on iwu70. Don't worry, he can handle it.

The B's and C's went to:

Wesley
Centre
Texas Lutheran
Muhlenberg
John Carroll
Wabash
Delaware Valley
St. Thomas

If I interpreted the language correctly, Wesley and Centre were the B's as they referenced TLU and Muhlenberg as 'at-large' teams.  But don't hold me to that.

Wheaton will likely get John Carroll in Round 2 assuming they take care of business against the Bennies.

There must be a misprint. If not a 8-2 Franklin team with a 145 SOS and a loss  to IWU was selected over NC. If that is the case the Selection Committee is a clueless joke or outright liars as to what is important to the process. Should I go on to St. Thomas and their 105 SOS ?  What clowns. No wonder the NCAA is universally disrespected.

Kovo,

Franklin won their conference and received an AQ. They were not selected above NCC. That's simply not a fact. St Thomas, however was picked. That means Platteville likely dropped out of the West rankings and Concordia Moorehead came in at #10. That means St Thomas had a Regionally ranked win and NCC did not. That was the difference.

I stand corrected on Franklin. But heck St.T lost head to head to Bethel!  Who was their RRO win against?

Bottom line is don't lose to Stevens Point or any other middle of the road team early in the season.  UWSP proved to not be a very strong team when it came down to the end of the season.   NCC was very thin on defense as the season wound down and it surely showed.   One thing this does is gets the coaches on the road earlier for recruiting, which has been a chore when they have been playing into December.  There's my look on the bright side.  Coach Thorne goes out with a win in his last game as the head coach and the greatest football coach in NCC history.  Go Wheaton!   I might even pull out my Navy and Orange for a trip down Naper Blvd. next Saturday!

No, don't schedule WIAC teams because you could lose.  It is better to have a 105 SOS instead of a 30 SOS like NC--that is how you earn an at large bid.  And, yes I would rather go 7-0 and have the AQ EVERY year, but that isn't reality.  So as I have said before, anyone who schedules decent out of conference games is a fool.  The NCAA makes sure of that.

So you'd rather play the Benedictine's and Augsburg's (Sorry Bethel)?  That does nothing to prepare for the conference season which is where you have to win your bid.  This was NOT an NCC team that was going to make a deep run.  Having seen the biggest chunk of the games in person, defense was nowhere near the level needed to make a run in the playoffs.   I'm disappointed that they didn't get a bid but hopefully it puts the pressure on the players to not let your guard down and lay an egg in non conference games.

The answer is yes.  Every year for the past 5-6 years we play a tough non-conference schedule, and all it does is beat our team up, and make us LESS playoff and conference season ready.  We are better off trying to stay healthy going into the big conference games since a solid SOS doesn't help you, and having good programs pounding at your team early in the season doesn't help you either.

Don't give me the old "playing tough competition gets you ready".  Ready for what?  Trips to the ortho doc?  Why do you think Alabama played Florida Atlantic in a non-conference game???!! (I realize that they are in a different division, but college football logic applies),.  Shouldn't they have scheduled Florida State to help them get ready for the SEC play?  Maybe we can get Whitewater, Mount Union, and MHB to open the season next year.  Then we will be really really ready for CCIW play!!

Did it help NPU to go 2-8 this year?  Heck, if I'm calling the shots there I find three tomato cans to knock over, and Wa La---I'm an instant 5-5, and a national success story.  (Apologies to GS for using his guys as an example).

No need to apologize, Kovo, since I take no offense. At first blush, it appears that North Park serves very well as an example to help make your point.

However, I should point out that: a) what looked like it would be tough non-con competition for NPU didn't turn out in the end to be so tough after all. Both CUW and Wash U ended up having uncharacteristically down seasons, and the Alma team that pummelled the Park in the season's second game -- still one of the most baffling football games I've witnessed in ages -- ended up going 2-8, 0-6; and b) Mike Conway didn't set the schedule, since two out of NPU's three non-con games were the back ends of two-game contracts (the two-game Wash U contract was stretched out over four years) that were thus assembled by Scott Pethtel. I think that Mike did set up the NPU/CUW game with Falcons coach Greg Etter, although I'm not 100% sure on that. My guess is that it's a two-year contract, and that the Vikings will thus travel behind the cheddar curtain to face the Falcons in Mequon next September.

Since non-conference scheduling is largely being taken out of the hands of CCIW head coaches, at least in the short term, by the creation of the CCIW/MIAA and CCIW/IIAC challenges plus the inclusion of Carroll in the CCIW sked starting the season after next, Mike Conway's not likely to ever get the opportunity to go tomato-can hunting, whether he prefers that route or the schedule-tough-outside-the-circuit route favored by kiko.

[Gregory Sager]

I was actually pretty impressed with the personnel Carthage has on their team. Their QB is pretty effective and they have some defensive players who are very good athletes. Also a fairly young team, Carthage is another CCIW team that is improving, despite a tough year.

Overall, having seen all the CCIW teams, it makes sense the conference struggled in non conference play. I think all the top teams had large senior classes (24 for NCC, 29 for Wheaton and 32 for IWU). All of these teams started a lot of underclassmen. In addition, Carthage, NPU, and Augie are pretty young overall. All of these teams played better as the season wore on. I expect the CCIW to be much better overall next season.

I was thinking this exact same thing on Saturday, Obi-Wan. I would add that Millikin is obviously very young as well; aside from Justin Brooks, Mike Blakely, and Grant Shreve, and perhaps a starting O-lineman or two, it doesn't look as though the Big Blue are losing much of anything going into 2015.

I, too, think that 2014 was an aberration that reflected an uncharacteristically thin CCIW senior class, and that the league should be dramatically improved next season.

[Gregory Sager]

I'm excited about Wheaton's chances.  Correct!  As the lone CCIW team in the playoffs, I will support them as I would any other CCIW school in the playoffs and I love to see the school east of Naperville get pounded any chance I can.

CA, I get a kick out of the way that you've transferred your trademark I-won't-name-that-other-team strategy from Wheaton to Benedictine.

[USee]

Best of luck to the Thunder as they roll into the post-season - make the CCIW family proud! 

Wheaton was certainly the class of the conference this year, and the most athletic and talented group i saw play all year - i believe they definitely have a chance to make some noise.  i am sure saving Pelz Saturday was just a precaution (Usee - any insight?) - with that kid at the trigger the Thunder O can really rumble.

Great early chances for the Crusaders, should overwhelm BU, setting up a possible match-up with a tough, but winnable 2nd rounder.  As i look around the bracket at who some the "top seeded favorites" may have to deal with on Thanksgiving weekend in round two, can't help but think Swider and the gang got a terrific draw all things considered.  A purple team awaits in a possible December regional final, but as we all witnessed last December, a CCIW champ can definitely hang with the Mount!

I think Wheaton got as tough a draw as there is in these playoffs. The first round is as winnable as can be, but after that they face nothing but top 5 teams. In years past you didn't face top 5 teams til the quarters. 2 games where you are favored if you are the #2 seed. I am not sure Wheaton will be the favorite a week from Saturday if they host JCU. Can they win, sure they can. But it will be a better defense than anything we have seen all year and an offense comparable to NCC's. That's tough duty for round 2.

As for saving Peltz last Saturday I didn't see that. He was 19-30 for 252 yds and 3 TD's. He was also the leading rusher with 12 carries for 68 yds. That was a hard fought win. Score was 7-2 at half and 21-2 final. Carthage never really threatened to score on offense. This is a very good defensive team Wheaton has. It is a much different philosophy than most D3 defensive juggernauts but it very solid. They get off the field on 3rd down and they keep people out of the endzone. Two very important features of a playoff team.

[79jaybird]

Was pleased with the way Elmhurst played on Senior Day.  With a new regime, I felt it was important for Elmhurst to play hard (perhaps disappointed that they didn't reach some of their ultimate goals),  and be good examples for the underclassmen.  Elmhurst's college theme is "Vision in Action" and there are definitely some solid visions and core building blocks present.  How soon these blocks fit together to make a dynamic arsenal is TBD and who knows.  But Planz and Co. have done a nice job of taking the bull by the horns and get the Blue & White steered in the right direction.  Hate to see the "Bird Bowl" get another Cardinal & White chip in there,  but definitely was a fantastic game.  Congratulations to Wheaton and hope they have success in the 2nd season.

[iwu70]

I can handle it.  I'm used to all your geniuses and bums in here.    Nit-pick away you nit-wits! 

Signing off for this year in football . . . so glad I finally, thanks to Greg, found the right room to post in.  It has been a tough, disappointing season for my Greenies, but we'll be back in the top ranks in time.  I have faith.  At least we can still beat North Park University (yes, not North Park).  Something like how bad the Bears suck, but at least they can still beat the Vikings.  Some things have to remain "in the order of things." 

Good luck to Wheaton in the tournament.  I hope they go far.  Surely a superb season, no matter, at 10-0 and hopefully more climbing to do, more wins coming.

Over and out, chatsters -- to the basketball room for the next few months.

IWU70