FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[kiko]

Last word from me on this topic, as we have actual football to talk about.

I was a bit surprised to see this among the points in your spirited counterargument:

Maybe long-time Cardinal fans doesn't understand going from the basement to where North Park is today, but we certainly understand the excitement and wonder of a program transforming into something that was unthinkable just a few years prior.

Totally agree with that.

Because this is what I was responding to in the first place:

There's just a very, very different mentality now under Mike Conway, and I'm not sure that non-NPU types really understand that.

Do we understand the specific point on the compass that NPU moved from and moved to?  At an intellectual level, yes, but certainly not at a deep, personal level akin to what a longtime Parker would.  (And the same can be said for your understanding of the pivot North Central made.)

But we DO understand how hard it is to change a culture and the mentality surrounding a moribund program -- maybe not from the same specific depth that North Park needed to claw back from, but certainly from a place that is far removed from where the program got to.  Hopeless is hopeless, regardless of where you are in the map.

'Special snowflake' had nothing to do with pride or whatnot.  I meant it in the context of "you'll never understand -- we're different!", which is the tone I took from your protestations.  Obviously, I feel otherwise.

[USee]

Last word from me on this topic, as we have actual football to talk about.

I was a bit surprised to see this among the points in your spirited counterargument:

Maybe long-time Cardinal fans doesn't understand going from the basement to where North Park is today, but we certainly understand the excitement and wonder of a program transforming into something that was unthinkable just a few years prior.

Totally agree with that.

Because this is what I was responding to in the first place:

There's just a very, very different mentality now under Mike Conway, and I'm not sure that non-NPU types really understand that.

Do we understand the specific point on the compass that NPU moved from and moved to?  At an intellectual level, yes, but certainly not at a deep, personal level akin to what a longtime Parker would.  (And the same can be said for your understanding of the pivot North Central made.)

But we DO understand how hard it is to change a culture and the mentality surrounding a moribund program -- maybe not from the same specific depth that North Park needed to claw back from, but certainly from a place that is far removed from where the program got to.  Hopeless is hopeless, regardless of where you are in the map.

'Special snowflake' had nothing to do with pride or whatnot.  I meant it in the context of "you'll never understand -- we're different!", which is the tone I took from your protestations.  Obviously, I feel otherwise.

FWIW, despite the "you don't understand" and "we sucked more" argument from Mr Sager,  Mike Conway won one more conference game in his first year than J.R. Bishop at Wheaton and one less than John Thorne. In addition he improved his team on the field (both in record and quality) much more dramatically than either of those two in a shorter amount of time (And both of them also worked with their son's in the program  ).

[AndOne]

Rather than flying, I understand IWU is busing it to their game with with NWU in Lincoln, NE.
That's about a 16 hour round trip on the bus. Should be fun!   

[robertgoulet]

Rather than flying, I understand IWU is busing it to their game with with NWU in Lincoln, NE.
That's about a 16 hour round trip on the bus. Should be fun!   

At least it's a scenic drive. 

[Pat Coleman]

Rather than flying, I understand IWU is busing it to their game with with NWU in Lincoln, NE.
That's about a 16 hour round trip on the bus. Should be fun!   

I'd have been surprised if a D-III team flew to an opponent that is just eight hours away.

[Titan Q]

Rather than flying, I understand IWU is busing it to their game with with NWU in Lincoln, NE.
That's about a 16 hour round trip on the bus. Should be fun!   

When I lived in Lincoln from 2011-2014 and traveled to Bloomington often for work I learned that, unfortunately, driving is pretty much the best route all things considered.  There are a couple flight options that can get you door to door in about 6:30 if everything works out perfectly.  But more times than not, it takes every bit the 7:30 it does to drive.

Then you consider traveling with an entire football team...and busing seems like a no-brainer.

Real big dose of Iowa on that drive.

[Gregory Sager]

Last word from me on this topic, as we have actual football to talk about.

I was a bit surprised to see this among the points in your spirited counterargument:

Maybe long-time Cardinal fans doesn't understand going from the basement to where North Park is today, but we certainly understand the excitement and wonder of a program transforming into something that was unthinkable just a few years prior.

Totally agree with that.

Because this is what I was responding to in the first place:

There's just a very, very different mentality now under Mike Conway, and I'm not sure that non-NPU types really understand that.

Do we understand the specific point on the compass that NPU moved from and moved to?  At an intellectual level, yes, but certainly not at a deep, personal level akin to what a longtime Parker would.  (And the same can be said for your understanding of the pivot North Central made.)

But we DO understand how hard it is to change a culture and the mentality surrounding a moribund program -- maybe not from the same specific depth that North Park needed to claw back from, but certainly from a place that is far removed from where the program got to.  Hopeless is hopeless, regardless of where you are in the map.

'Special snowflake' had nothing to do with pride or whatnot.  I meant it in the context of "you'll never understand -- we're different!", which is the tone I took from your protestations.  Obviously, I feel otherwise.

My point really wasn't about understanding the feeling that those associated with the NPU football program are experiencing right now. It was about understanding the depth and magnitude of the feeling as experienced at NPU, because of the degree of difficulty overcome that was involved, the length of the previous losing involved (and the soul-crushing aspect of so many instances of that endless string of losses being of the 56-7 variety, or thereabouts), the utter indifference of the people of North Park to the football program (when they weren't joking about it they were ignoring it), and the knowledge that circumstances beyond anybody's control seemed to preclude the program from ever getting better before it actually did get better.

FWIW, despite the "you don't understand" and "we sucked more" argument from Mr Sager,  Mike Conway won one more conference game in his first year than J.R. Bishop at Wheaton and one less than John Thorne. In addition he improved his team on the field (both in record and quality) much more dramatically than either of those two in a shorter amount of time (And both of them also worked with their son's in the program  ).

I don't think that there needs to be a "despite" in there, USee, because this doesn't contradict what I was saying. What it really does is to make what Mike Conway did in 2013 even more impressive. The coaches definitely got it right when they made him the 2013 COY, in spite of the fact that the Vikings only finished in a fourth-place tie with a 3-7, 3-4 record.

[Gregory Sager]

Rather than flying, I understand IWU is busing it to their game with with NWU in Lincoln, NE.
That's about a 16 hour round trip on the bus. Should be fun!   

When I lived in Lincoln from 2011-2014 and traveled to Bloomington often for work I learned that, unfortunately, driving is pretty much the best route all things considered.  There are a couple flight options that can get you door to door in about 6:30 if everything works out perfectly.  But more times than not, it takes every bit the 7:30 it does to drive.

Then you consider traveling with an entire football team...and busing seems like a no-brainer.

Real big dose of Iowa on that drive.

Yeah, I get to make that trip next season with the team when North Park travels to Fremont, NE (which is 45 minutes past Omaha) for the return game against Midland. Eight hours via bus -- and it's likely going to mean an overnight in the Cornhusker State.

I'm already griping about it.

[AndOne]

Don't forget your pillows, boys! 😴 🚌
Maybe it's time to gas up a couple of ✈️ ✈️s from the IWU fleet. 🤑 

[Gregory Sager]

Speaking of Midland, the Warriors will come here to the big city on Saturday sporting a 2-0 record, having racked up easy wins of 49-21 over Olivet Nazarene and 26-0 over Bethel (KS). While that looks impressive, it's hard to get a read upon what it really means, given that NAIA and D3 have so few football crossovers that there's really no frame of reference with which to work. Midland and North Park have never competed in any sport, let alone football, so there isn't even an historical reference upon which I can hang my hat in terms of analysis.

The Warriors feature a RB in Deon Ransom who ranks second in NAIA in rushing. He's averaged 162 yards in those two games, at seven and a half yards per carry. Likewise, the absence of any frame of reference keeps me from drawing any sweeping conclusions about Ransom, but I'm going to take it on faith that he'll be a tough customer for the Vikings to bring to the turf on Saturday afternoon.

[markerickson]

Midland offers not only mens and womens hockey, but also mens and womens trap shooting as varsity sports.  Co-ed dance too.

[GRIZ_BACKER]

Rather than flying, I understand IWU is busing it to their game with with NWU in Lincoln, NE.
That's about a 16 hour round trip on the bus. Should be fun!   

At least it's a scenic drive. 

They will go by the World's largest truckstop.

[kiko]

Midland offers not only mens and womens hockey, but also mens and womens trap shooting as varsity sports.  Co-ed dance too.

d3trapshooting.com looks like it is available if this site's overlords are interested in expanding the empire... 

[thunderdog]

I'm very intrigued by the Carthage traveling to Bethel (MN) game in week 2. Bethel was picked to finish 3rd in the MIAC while Carthage was picked to finish 4th in the CCIW. These seem to be 2 programs traveling in opposite directions. Carthage seems to be on the rise while the Bethel program seems to be on a rapid descent since their undefeated 2013 regular season and quarterfinal appearance against NCC. Bethel finished 7-3 in 2014, then 5-5 in 2015, and then opened 2016 by giving up 735 yards and 70 points to DuBuque in a week 1 loss.

I like Carthage in this one despite a long road trip...

[Dennis_Prikkel]

Rather than flying, I understand IWU is busing it to their game with with NWU in Lincoln, NE.
That's about a 16 hour round trip on the bus. Should be fun!   

When I lived in Lincoln from 2011-2014 and traveled to Bloomington often for work I learned that, unfortunately, driving is pretty much the best route all things considered.  There are a couple flight options that can get you door to door in about 6:30 if everything works out perfectly.  But more times than not, it takes every bit the 7:30 it does to drive.

Then you consider traveling with an entire football team...and busing seems like a no-brainer.

Real big dose of Iowa on that drive.

Yeah, I get to make that trip next season with the team when North Park travels to Fremont, NE (which is 45 minutes past Omaha) for the return game against Midland. Eight hours via bus -- and it's likely going to mean an overnight in the Cornhusker State.

I'm already griping about it.

I've been to Fremont and it's no trip to Hollywood.

But what can you expect from a Lutheran school.