FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Gregory Sager]

LOL!

[kiko]

(and I strongly doubt that the Illinois Wesleyan football team is some sort of revolutionary fifth column)

The revolutionary fifth columns are clearly those basketball teams that are running the system...   

[thunderdog]

New rankings are out. NCC jumps to #7, WC drops one spot to #8. Not surprised at all to see NCC jump the Thunder after Saturday's games. However, I am surprised to see Linfield drop to #9 below both NCC & WC. Yes, Linfield took it on the chin on Saturday, but it may have been to the best team in the country in UMHB... those Crusaders are very, very, even scary good.

I hope to have a free moment to share my thoughts on the WC @ Carthage game later today...

[thunderdog]

Thunder 19 , Red Men 14

Carthage is a very good, tough football team. I'll echo a lot of USee's thoughts in his previous post.

A great game to watch in Kenosha. I can't emphasize enough how impressed I am with Carthage. They have a lot of talent in the form of size, skill and speed. They are a good quarterback away from being a top 15 team in my opinion. Carthage has a philosophy and they stick to it for 4 quarters. They are going to run the ball right at you on offense, try to beat you down the field on play action, and on defense they are going to play man to man and blitz. They don't change. That was a very physical CCIW game.
Carthage certainly opened my eyes today and they are going to be very tough to beat at home if they stay healthy. That's going to be a high quality win for the Thunder as this season unfolds I believe.

Moreover, their 2 RB's, #21 SR London Townsend and #19 FR Jamel Davis are both very talented and will cause headaches for the rest of the CCIW schedule. The battle up-front between Wheaton's run D and Carthage's power running attack was just good ol' fashioned, hard-nosed football. WR #2 JR James Cobbs is also a top playmaker. This one had all the makings of an upset victory by the RedMen and if they had gotten more accurate passing from #9 SR Ethan Olles (only 17 0f 41 for 164 yards, 1TD) I think outcome would have been different. For as great as the Wheaton D played against the run, there's no denying there were some seriously blown coverage mistakes that we'd (Wheaton fans) be bemoaning with some more accurate passes from Olles. There were 3-4 instances where wide open receivers were just flat missed. One in particular, in the 3rd quarter, a Carthage WR was overthrown on a deep pattern when there wasn't a Wheaton defender within 10 yards. A completion on this play would have been a sure TD for Carthage.

On the Wheaton side of things... and I say this from a constructive criticism standpoint, not an accusatory standpoint... I have never seen AB2 play so poorly. He was just off, from his accuracy, to his timing, to his reads. #13 Trey Hanley made 2 great catches on balls thrown at his ankles. In the 4th qtr, on the interception throw to #13 SO Virgil Young of Carthage, the intended WR (can't remember who) was AB2's first read... never did the WR gobble up the 5 yard cushion established by Young, the WR was never open, the ball shouldn't have been thrown. It just seemed like he was locking on to his first read (too often) and telegraphing his throws. That being said, when Wheaton needed it the most, he did convert a HUGE 3rd-and-15 pass to #13 Trey Hanley with 1:54 to go in the game which caused the RedMen to burn their final 2 TO's and effectively ran out the clock.

Wheaton really missed Sola on Saturday. I'm a big #31 Stone Watson fan, but he did not have a good game either, putting the ball on the ground twice. I noticed him carrying the ball in his right arm (while running left) on a few occasions... a fundamental mistake that shouldn't be happening at this point in his career.

The missed extra point loomed large on Saturday. It made Wheaton go for 2 (failed attempt) after their 3rd TD and was the reason for a 5 point lead instead of (which should have been) a 7 point lead. The end of the game takes on a totally different feel knowing that Carthage would have been driving for a game-winning TD instead of a game-tying TD...

I really hope Wheaton stays away from a QB intra-game rotation. For the last 2 years, I've held the opinion that JP11 is the starter as long as he's healthy. New OC  Jesse Scott doesn't seem to think the same way. If both AB2 and JP11 will continue to get their shots, I hope it is by a full game by full game basis... I absolutely hate that the series-by-series or quarter-by-quarter or whatever intra-game rotation you can think of.

#87 FR Phillip Nichols... WOW... just keep doing what you've been doing young man...

All said and done, a win is a win. Carthage will make waves in the CCIW for sure. Next up is Elmhurst at home.

[wally_wabash]

I really hope Wheaton stays away from a QB intra-game rotation. For the last 2 years, I've held the opinion that JP11 is the starter as long as he's healthy. New OC  Jesse Scott doesn't seem to think the same way. If both AB2 and JP11 will continue to get their shots, I hope it is by a full game by full game basis... I absolutely hate that the series-by-series or quarter-by-quarter or whatever intra-game rotation you can think of.

#PlayJohnny

[Neverwas]

#PlayJohnny

I was very surprised to see him get zero snaps in the second half after only seeing the field for three drives in the first half.  Two of those three drives ended due to circumstances outside his control. 

I don't love the two man rotation either but I hope this wasn't a harbinger of things to come where Bowers receives all the playing time.  Does anyone remember another time in CCIW history where a senior quarterback, who is also a captain, is a healthy scratch?

[Mugsy]

Thunder 19 , Red Men 14

Carthage is a very good, tough football team. I'll echo a lot of USee's thoughts in his previous post.

A great game to watch in Kenosha. I can't emphasize enough how impressed I am with Carthage. They have a lot of talent in the form of size, skill and speed. They are a good quarterback away from being a top 15 team in my opinion. Carthage has a philosophy and they stick to it for 4 quarters. They are going to run the ball right at you on offense, try to beat you down the field on play action, and on defense they are going to play man to man and blitz. They don't change. That was a very physical CCIW game.
Carthage certainly opened my eyes today and they are going to be very tough to beat at home if they stay healthy. That's going to be a high quality win for the Thunder as this season unfolds I believe.

Moreover, their 2 RB's, #21 SR London Townsend and #19 FR Jamel Davis are both very talented and will cause headaches for the rest of the CCIW schedule. The battle up-front between Wheaton's run D and Carthage's power running attack was just good ol' fashioned, hard-nosed football. WR #2 JR James Cobbs is also a top playmaker. This one had all the makings of an upset victory by the RedMen and if they had gotten more accurate passing from #9 SR Ethan Olles (only 17 0f 41 for 164 yards, 1TD) I think outcome would have been different. For as great as the Wheaton D played against the run, there's no denying there were some seriously blown coverage mistakes that we'd (Wheaton fans) be bemoaning with some more accurate passes from Olles. There were 3-4 instances where wide open receivers were just flat missed. One in particular, in the 3rd quarter, a Carthage WR was overthrown on a deep pattern when there wasn't a Wheaton defender within 10 yards. A completion on this play would have been a sure TD for Carthage.

On the Wheaton side of things... and I say this from a constructive criticism standpoint, not an accusatory standpoint... I have never seen AB2 play so poorly. He was just off, from his accuracy, to his timing, to his reads. #13 Trey Hanley made 2 great catches on balls thrown at his ankles. In the 4th qtr, on the interception throw to #13 SO Virgil Young of Carthage, the intended WR (can't remember who) was AB2's first read... never did the WR gobble up the 5 yard cushion established by Young, the WR was never open, the ball shouldn't have been thrown. It just seemed like he was locking on to his first read (too often) and telegraphing his throws. That being said, when Wheaton needed it the most, he did convert a HUGE 3rd-and-15 pass to #13 Trey Hanley with 1:54 to go in the game which caused the RedMen to burn their final 2 TO's and effectively ran out the clock.

Wheaton really missed Sola on Saturday. I'm a big #31 Stone Watson fan, but he did not have a good game either, putting the ball on the ground twice. I noticed him carrying the ball in his right arm (while running left) on a few occasions... a fundamental mistake that shouldn't be happening at this point in his career.

The missed extra point loomed large on Saturday. It made Wheaton go for 2 (failed attempt) after their 3rd TD and was the reason for a 5 point lead instead of (which should have been) a 7 point lead. The end of the game takes on a totally different feel knowing that Carthage would have been driving for a game-winning TD instead of a game-tying TD...

I really hope Wheaton stays away from a QB intra-game rotation. For the last 2 years, I've held the opinion that JP11 is the starter as long as he's healthy. New OC  Jesse Scott doesn't seem to think the same way. If both AB2 and JP11 will continue to get their shots, I hope it is by a full game by full game basis... I absolutely hate that the series-by-series or quarter-by-quarter or whatever intra-game rotation you can think of.

#87 FR Phillip Nichols... WOW... just keep doing what you've been doing young man...

All said and done, a win is a win. Carthage will make waves in the CCIW for sure. Next up is Elmhurst at home.

USee & thunderdog,

Thanks for the thoughts on the game.  I was unable to watch the video of the game (in the ER for the entire game), but I was able to keep an eye on the play-by-play.  Couple things I'd be interested to know your perspective:

1. There seemed to be some horribly timed, unsportsmanlike or personal foul penalties on Wheaton's defense - not that there is a good time for that type of penalty.  Now having played and coached on the defensive side of the ball, I know at times this can be attributed to an emphasis on "playing to the whistle", which sometimes results in "playing through the whistle".  I didn't go back an count, but I think there were at least 3 excessive penalties on the Wheaton defense. 2 of which came on 3rd and very long, and resulted in keeping the Carthage drive alive.  One of those drives went on for a TD (15 plays, 77 yards), when it should have been a punt very early in the drive.  This could cost Wheaton down the line.

2. Another critical point of the game which I didn't hear anymore about was the series where Wheaton stopped Carthage on a goal line stand.  4 plays inside the Wheaton 5 yard line if I'm not mistaken.  HUGE!

3. What were the wind conditions like?  Would this have impacted passing & kicking?  If not, then the performance by Bowers and Peltz is a bit more concerning.  There were also a few punts that were very short (30-34 yards).

It is clear Carthage is a very solid team and this should be considered a good, conference road win.  I'm a bit concerned by the miscues (penalties, turnovers, and incompletions).  Wheaton made the critical plays, but they need to clean things up a bit.

Not often you'll finish with a "W" with only 34 yards rushing, 48% pass completion, 2 of 11 on 3rd downs, and on the negative side of the turnover ratio.  Obviously the Carthage defense play a role in those numbers, but I'm surprise that the Wheaton offense did not perform better.

[Mugsy]

Went back and looked at the play-by-play log for the more costly Wheaton penalties.
Kind of answers my own question, as there were only two excessive penalties by the Wheaton D.  Ill timed, but only two.

2nd Quarter: 2nd and 23 at WHEATON44 Olles, Ethan rush for 8 yards to the WHEATON36 (Ohendalski), PENALTY WHEATON personal foul 15 yards to the WHEATON21, 1ST DOWN CARTHAGE

3rd Quarter: 3rd and 10 at CARTHAGE40 PENALTY WHEATON unsportsmanlike conduct 15 yards to the WHEATON45, 1ST DOWN CARTHAGE.
This was on the 15 play, 77 yard drive to make it 19-14.

4th Quarter:  2nd and 13 at WHEATON41    Bowers pass intercepted by Young, Virgil at the CARTHAGE23, Young, Virgil return 0 yards to the CARTHAGE23, PENALTY WHEATON personal foul declined.


Here is the goal line stand late where Wheaton held Carthage on downs in the 2nd quarter:
1st and GOAL at WHEATON06    Timeout WHEATON, clock 04:46.
1st and GOAL at WHEATON06    Townsend, L. rush for 4 yards to the WHEATON2 (Greenlee).
2nd and GOAL at WHEATON02    Davis, Jamel rush for no gain to the WHEATON2 (Stevenson).
3rd and GOAL at WHEATON02    Cobbs, James rush for 1 yard to the WHEATON1 (Stevenson).
4th and GOAL at WHEATON01    Davis, Jamel rush for loss of 1 yard to the WHEATON2 (Spielman).

[thunderdog]

USee & thunderdog,

Thanks for the thoughts on the game.  I was unable to watch the video of the game (in the ER for the entire game), but I was able to keep an eye on the play-by-play.  Couple things I'd be interested to know your perspective:

1. There seemed to be some horribly timed, unsportsmanlike or personal foul penalties on Wheaton's defense - not that there is a good time for that type of penalty.  Now having played and coached on the defensive side of the ball, I know at times this can be attributed to an emphasis on "playing to the whistle", which sometimes results in "playing through the whistle".  I didn't go back an count, but I think there were at least 3 excessive penalties on the Wheaton defense. 2 of which came on 3rd and very long, and resulted in keeping the Carthage drive alive.  One of those drives went on for a TD (15 plays, 77 yards), when it should have been a punt very early in the drive.  This could cost Wheaton down the line.

2. Another critical point of the game which I didn't hear anymore about was the series where Wheaton stopped Carthage on a goal line stand.  4 plays inside the Wheaton 5 yard line if I'm not mistaken.  HUGE!

3. What were the wind conditions like?  Would this have impacted passing & kicking?  If not, then the performance by Bowers and Peltz is a bit more concerning.  There were also a few punts that were very short (30-34 yards).

It is clear Carthage is a very solid team and this should be considered a good, conference road win.  I'm a bit concerned by the miscues (penalties, turnovers, and incompletions).  Wheaton made the critical plays, but they need to clean things up a bit.

Not often you'll finish with a "W" with only 34 yards rushing, 48% pass completion, 2 of 11 on 3rd downs, and on the negative side of the turnover ratio.  Obviously the Carthage defense play a role in those numbers, but I'm surprise that the Wheaton offense did not perform better.

1. As for the unsportsmanlike penalties, it's always hard to gauge the "appropriateness" of the penalty if the infraction was "jawwing/taunting". One was on #4 Tyler Sigler. He made a nice play to knock Olles (I believe) out of bounds on the Carthage sidelines. I did not see any type of late hit or extra shove or anything like that. By the way his head was turned, it looks as if Sigler may have said something... if he did, it better have been a doozie, because I heard plenty of jawwing by Carthage players on the Wheaton sidelines that never got flagged. Unless I'm mistaken, I believe all of Wheaton's unsportsmanlike penalties fell under the "taunting" category. I didn't see any type of extra-curricular activity otherwise.

In general, I hate the general/generic "the refs were terrible" post. But yes, I can attest that the fans (especially myself) were not happy about a few of the calls, but that's pretty par for the course, nothing out of the ordinary IMO.

Also, one of the first things Swider talked about after the game with the team and fans huddled up, was about "keeping our poise." There's no question that Wheaton shot itself in the foot a few times with those penalties.

2. No question the goalline stand was HUGE. Super excited that we had held them scoreless for the half (only 2:48 left on the clock for the half)... oh but wait, the offense goes three and out, they get a good punt return, and they still ended up scoring a TD before the half with under a minute left. So, not trying to take anything away from the D, Carthage ultimately still capitalized on the field position gained from that possession. I suppose that's why I didn't bring it up earlier (other than simple time constraints)

3. Wind was not a factor at all...

[USee]

#PlayJohnny

I was very surprised to see him get zero snaps in the second half after only seeing the field for three drives in the first half.  Two of those three drives ended due to circumstances outside his control. 

I don't love the two man rotation either but I hope this wasn't a harbinger of things to come where Bowers receives all the playing time.  Does anyone remember another time in CCIW history where a senior quarterback, who is also a captain, is a healthy scratch?

I can't say I have any insight into what the coaches are thinking. It would be pretty hard to decide on one vs the other based on Saturday. Both struggled in the first half (though a big part of that was some young WR who struggled) and Peltz never got a chance in the 2nd half.

If it were me I would start Peltz next week and give them both the same rotation as vs Carthage. I am not a fan of the rotation either but that's what I would do this week and then make a decision.

[izzy stradlin]

#PlayJohnny

I was very surprised to see him get zero snaps in the second half after only seeing the field for three drives in the first half.  Two of those three drives ended due to circumstances outside his control. 

I don't love the two man rotation either but I hope this wasn't a harbinger of things to come where Bowers receives all the playing time.  Does anyone remember another time in CCIW history where a senior quarterback, who is also a captain, is a healthy scratch?

Don't get it at all.  Peltz has been who Wheaton has gone to in the last 2 years when healthy. You can't tell me Peltz wasn't going to start the UWW game last year if he was healthy.   Not sure what happened in the off-season to change the coaches minds?  Maybe it's the Scott vs Sears change but ultimately it's Swider's call.   Peltz has as much better completion percentage over his career and that is what you need to convert on 3rd down in playoff-type games against the really tough opponents.  Bowers is not a bad QB, but as Wally mentioned on the NRFP boards Peltz has upside (ie his 2nd career start as a soph against NCC, at EC in his 3rd start, Kalamazoo last week)  that gives Wheaton the best chance to win (it's all about the odds) and a punchers chance in late bracket playoff games.

#PlayJohnny 

[USee]

Muggy,

The game was chippy and Carthage was also called for some unsportsmanlike penalties.  The refs were very inconsistent. They called everything  In the first half and nothing in the second half.

The goal line stand was big but the Thunder defense did that all day. They took on 43 running plays and gave up less than 100 yds. Most of those were 2 TE's and a lead guard into the hole.

THe wind was Carthage's back in the 4th quarter but the effect was minimal

A lot of what happened was matchup related. Wheaton's defense wasn't going to let Carthage score (they did miss a wide open Cobbs on a busted coverage in the 3rd Qtr that would have been a TD). But Wheaton has new WRs and haven't gone against aggressive Man to Man defense. They struggled to get open. When they did, they had big plays. Carthage stacks the box to stop the run so you have to beat man coverage to score. North Central has experienced WR's and if Carthage plays them the same way (they will) they will have more success. Wheaton started to figure it out in the 2nd half and I am pretty sure if these two teams met later in the season, Wheaton's WR's would be better.

If the Redmen stay healthy I think they should finish 8-2. They are a top 25 team for sure in my view.

[79jaybird]

As Greg alluded to earlier,  my first thought when I saw the final score was wow!  North Park must have really self destructed and/or turned the ball over all game long.  I found it shocking that Elmhurst's so-so offense would be able to generate all that by themselves.   Well,   Elmhurst better be ready because Wheaton is not going to be the same, plus EC never plays well at McCully.   Thing to watch-  the first 5-10 minutes of the game at McCully.  I can recall a few games where between getting pinned inside their 20 or coughing the ball up,  put the Jays down 10 to 21 points and WC would romp from there.   

[USee]

Congrats to the POW's for the week:

http://cciw.org/index.aspx?path=football&

I am all for giving out these types of accolades I am surprised Wheaton freshman Phillip Nichols wasn't featured by the CCIW. He did make the D3.Com team of the week as a special teams player. His 235 all purpose yards were over 50% of Wheaton's offensive and return yards produced in the game and included a 70 yd punt return for a TD.

[izzy stradlin]

Congrats to the POW's for the week:

http://cciw.org/index.aspx?path=football&

I am all for giving out these types of accolades I am surprised Wheaton freshman Phillip Nichols wasn't featured by the CCIW. He did make the D3.Com team of the week as a special teams player. His 235 all purpose yards were over 50% of Wheaton's offensive and return yards produced in the game and included a 70 yd punt return for a TD.

Stevenson had a breakout game Sunday.   He is looking more comfortable in the defense and obviously has the athleticism to be a big time player.  He, Greenlee and Spielman are really stepping up so far on that side of the ball.