FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[wally_wabash]

Beating Bethel on the road is a pretty good win most years...but Bethel is currently 3-4, and Carthage needed overtime to close the deal.  Three other teams have beaten Bethel without going to overtime this year; Concordia-Moorhead currently is receiving just five votes, despite CM's loss [23-20 vs St. Thomas] being better than Carthage's loss.  Dubuque is currently receiving just three votes.  An overtime win over Bethel isn't going to get you ranked this year without more meat.

Signature wins don't need more meat.

You can keep going to the well with this all u want, but the fact of the matter is... Carthage controls its own destiny. If they win out, they'd need to beat NCC by 16+, they win the CCIW and earn the automatic bid. Signature or not, Carthage's win over Bethel was huge for that program and big for whoever finishes 2nd in conference (as far as a pool C bid).

If Wheaton can finish 9-1, I think they are a virtual lock for a pool C bid. The one scenario that throws a serious wrinkle into that statement is if Carthage beats NCC (especially if they beat them by 16+) and finishes 9-1. Yes, that's a tall task, beginning this weekend when Carthage travels to B-Town to take on a IWU squad that seems to have found its groove with the Frosh QB Bauer at the helm. If Carthage can pull one off this weekend, that will force me to root for SoDup (ARGHHH!) on Nov 5th when Carthage hosts the SoDupers

Actually, if Carthage wins out and there is a 3 way tie for the title, the Redmen would need to beat NCC by 8 to win the title. The tiebreaker is the point differential against the three tied teams.

Wheaton; +5, -10 = -5
Carthage: -5, ??
NCC: +10, ??

Wheaton has no chance to win the AQ via this avenue, they would need a Carthage win against NCC combined with another conference loss for both NCC and Carthage, all of which is highly unlikely. Carthage needs an 8 pt victory vs NCC which would bring their point differential to +3 (-5+8) and NCC's to +2 (10-8). In that case Wheaton is hosed because NCC then gets in Pool C line ahead of the Thunder, which might be ok but also might not with all the other 1 loss teams out there (follow the Pool C board to learn more).

Wouldn't Wheaton go AQ if Carthage wins out and NCC loses one of their other games (in addition to Carthage)?  Doesn't that get you to a Wheaton/Carthage tie at 7-1, NCC at 6-2, and Wheaton with a h2h over Carthage?  I realize that NCC losing one more of Augustana/Carroll/Elmhurst is very unlikely, but it's out there.  I don't think Carthage has to lose again...just NCC. 

[USee]

Yes, that's right. Improbable, but plausible.

[AndOne]

Congrats to the NCC Cardinals on a hard fought victory over the Wheaton Thunder on Saturday. What an electric atmosphere! I have nothing but respect for the Cards. They play hard, they play fast, they play tough, they play the game the right way... Others have mentioned it before, but this is one of the "healthier" rivalries I've seen during my time with Wheaton football. So when you get beat, you tip your cap... Congrats, once again.

I knew from the videos that Broc Rutter was good... well, he's even better in person. Very impressive young QB. Throw in 3 fast, smooth, sure-handed WR's in Ulmer, Kuel, and Warden, and you've got yourself a very dangerous passing attack. NCC's O-line also deserves credit for neutralizing a talented and explosive Wheaton D-line.

Enjoy the Bell, we'll be taking it back in 2017

Actually, this was not really very surprising as the Cardinals O-Line has excelled at pass blocking all year. Where they have inexplicably fallen somewhat short is in the run blocking phase of the game. With two RBs as talented as Breunig & Brown, I think most analysts would have expected NCC to rank higher than 5th in the conference in rushing at this juncture.

Conversely, the Cards have probably exceeded most expectations so far in the passing game. This, along with their kicking and return teams plus their penchant for creating turnovers, has countered the less than expected rushing yardage.

As far as taking back the Bell in 2017, might I suggest finding next year's QB prior to beginning to publicize such delusional prognostications.  🏈

[USee]

I actually found the NCC Oline pass protection surprisingly good. Coming into the game, when you see a team can't run the ball and throws a lot of short passes it leads some to conclude the Oline isn't that good. The best team NCC has played was Wheaton who came into the game with 27 sacks in 6 games (ranked #2 nationally) I expected  more pressure. The big guys for NCC did a great job blocking the NCC front (despite the non-holding calls) and the few times the Thunder blitzed, the Cardinals picked it up. It's a big reason NCC won in my opinion.

[AndOne]

As I said, as far as how the pass blocking held up, I wasn't surprised. They really have been doing it all year. You don't put up the passing stats that NCC has amassed on QB play alone.
That's why I'm perplexed why the running game hasn't been more successful. You know Breunig & Brown have the talent.

Maybe it's just my own singular perspective, but one Wheaton guy who seemed especially frustrated much of the evening was #52.

I was impressed with #13.

[79jaybird]

Don't you love it when some flavor-of-the-year team, usually having their first really good year in awhile, gets off to a halfway decent start and suddenly their fans all want to know why they're not getting any poll respect?

This was Elmhurst Sales pitch for years.  In fact, going back to 1998-1999 when I was a young college pup,  I voiced the Kool-Aid too.    Elmhurst would start out 3-0 or be 4-1, but then played the likes of WC/AC/IWU (the 3 strongest back in that era typically) and wind up 4-6 or 6-4 overall.   Making those really look really foolish.

I see Carthage as a solid #3 behind NC  and WC. 

[USee]

As I said, as far as how the pass blocking held up, I wasn't surprised. They really have been doing it all year. You don't put up the passing stats that NCC has amassed on QB play alone.
That's why I'm perplexed why the running game hasn't been more successful. You know Breunig & Brown have the talent.

Maybe it's just my own singular perspective, but one Wheaton guy who seemed especially frustrated much of the evening was #52.

I was impressed with #13.

Well you qualified this time as your opinion, which is different.

#52 plays frustrated at all times, that's why he is pretty good.

[USee]

Players of the Week:

http://cciw.org/news/2016/10/17/FB_1017163232.aspx

Tough crowd when you can have 3 sacks in a defacto title game and not be named POW and instead give it to someone who blew out a winless team. 

[USee]

The Carthage vs NCC matchup is really intriguing for a number of reasons. Carthage will first have it's hands full with IWU in the house this weekend but the matchup with the Titans will give us some clues as to how Carthage and NCC will play out.

IWU has found itself offensively with the freshman QB and their multi faceted use (finally) of MSG. Carthage is an in your face defense that is among the nations best at stopping the run. Norm is usually pretty good game planning against pressure defenses and he likes the long ball against bump man. That means there will be a lot of long passes because that's what Carthage will do and no amount of game planning is going to get them out of it. You burn them and they are right back in it the next series. Carthage is the same way on offense. They run the ball between the tackles for 4 quarters and try to pop a play action bomb a few times a game. Get used to it. IWU matches up pretty well with that profile I would think. Wheaton had no problem with the Carthage run game and had a few big pass plays that led to their scores.

NCC has the horses at WR to handle this kind of pressure but Broc Rutter hasn't seen a steady diet of it for 4 quarters. And playing in Kenosha is no picnic by the lake.

[AndOne]

Players of the Week:

http://cciw.org/news/2016/10/17/FB_1017163232.aspx

Tough crowd when you can have 3 sacks in a defacto title game and not be named POW and instead give it to someone who blew out a winless team.

NCC has already had 2 Defensive PsOW. It wasn't their turn. 🔩🔩🔩

[Gregory Sager]

Beating Bethel on the road is a pretty good win most years...but Bethel is currently 3-4, and Carthage needed overtime to close the deal.  Three other teams have beaten Bethel without going to overtime this year; Concordia-Moorhead currently is receiving just five votes, despite CM's loss [23-20 vs St. Thomas] being better than Carthage's loss.  Dubuque is currently receiving just three votes.  An overtime win over Bethel isn't going to get you ranked this year without more meat.

Signature wins don't need more meat.

You can keep going to the well with this all u want, but the fact of the matter is... Carthage controls its own destiny. If they win out, they'd need to beat NCC by 16+, they win the CCIW and earn the automatic bid. Signature or not, Carthage's win over Bethel was huge for that program and big for whoever finishes 2nd in conference (as far as a pool C bid).

I was just funnin' with ya. Hence, the emoticon. No big deal.

But you're still putting too much weight on that Carthage win over Bethel. Looking at what the Royals have left on their sked, it seems pretty likely that they're going to lose to St. Thomas, beat Augsburg, and then play what looks to be a competitive contest against Hamline in their finale. That means that Bethel will finish the year either 5-5 or 4-6, in either fourth or fifth place in the MIAC. That win will thus not be "big for whoever finishes 2nd in conference (as far as a pool C bid)." It will go down as a win for Carthage over a middle-of-the-pack team from a good league. That's all.

Beating Bethel, in general, is a really nice win.  Bethel is traditionally a great program, probably one of the 10 most successful programs in Division III over the last 10-15 years.  Unfortunately, they're a little bit off their (very high) standards this year, and that takes some of the shine off that win as far as "Does this catapult Carthage into the top 25?"

(Emphasis mine.)

Not to get hazzbeen and his crew down on me, but I think that folks need to re-evaluate their perception of Bethel. The Royals went 5-5, 4-4 last season and finished in a fifth-place tie in the final MIAC standings. This season looks like a carbon copy of last season. This is what Bethel is right now, people, not the Twin Cities juggernaut of several seasons ago.

[Gregory Sager]

Don't you love it when some flavor-of-the-year team, usually having their first really good year in awhile, gets off to a halfway decent start and suddenly their fans all want to know why they're not getting any poll respect?

Let's be fair, Mark. Your use of the plural "their fans" is not warranted here, as the only Carthage fan who has raised this complaint is HoosierRedMan ... and he's already conceded the point after ETP's painstaking explanation as to why Carthage wasn't getting any poll love. In fact, as somebody already pointed out in this room a few weeks ago, the Carthage contingent that used to regularly post here has largely been AWOL since the program went south at the end of the Rucks era a few years ago. HoosierRedMan is the first active Carthage poster that we've had in this room since the beginning of November last season.

No offense meant to HRM, who deserves kudos for filling Carthage's posting void, but one poster does not equal an entire fanbase.

[HoosierRedMan]

Don't you love it when some flavor-of-the-year team, usually having their first really good year in awhile, gets off to a halfway decent start and suddenly their fans all want to know why they're not getting any poll respect?

Let's be fair, Mark. Your use of the plural "their fans" is not warranted here, as the only Carthage fan who has raised this complaint is HoosierRedMan ... and he's already conceded the point after ETP's painstaking explanation as to why Carthage wasn't getting any poll love. In fact, as somebody already pointed out in this room a few weeks ago, the Carthage contingent that used to regularly post here has largely been AWOL since the program went south at the end of the Rucks era a few years ago. HoosierRedMan is the first active Carthage poster that we've had in this room since the beginning of November last season.

No offense meant to HRM, who deserves kudos for filling Carthage's posting void, but one poster does not equal an entire fanbase.

Not sure this a complement as the lone RedMen poster or not.   

[Gregory Sager]

It's a compliment, although I'm puzzled as to why the old-guard Carthage fans haven't returned yet. The turnaround of the Red Men has been very impressive, and it didn't just start with this current iteration of the program; Carthage really came on at the end of last year.

If someone had posted in a d3boards.com room for years without his team having any breakthrough success, until he finally gave up posting once the team dropped to the lower reaches of the standings, why would he prolong his absence once the team began a dramatic and successful turnaround? Are the old Carthage posters worried that they'll be called out as fair-weather fans? I wouldn't call them that, because they posted during a lot of seasons in which the Red Men went 4-3 or 3-4 in the league and clearly weren't a top-level outfit.

I guess that what I'm trying to say is that this room, like all d3boards.com rooms, is at its best when it gets broad representation from most or all of the fanbases of the league in question. I don't expect to see any Carroll fans posting here in the near future, but it's a little strange that you're the only Carthage poster at the moment.

[HoosierRedMan]

Thanks Greg.  My son played for Coach Rucks from '08 thru '11 and Carthage was always around .500 in his years there.  Great experience and wouldn't trade it f or anything.  In those 4 years Carthage just couldn't beat Augie, Wheaton or North Central. 

So I've watched from afar has Coach Yeager puts his stamp on this program.  Last year they started to show improvement and that has carried over to this season.  If they take care of business the next couple of weeks, Kenosha will be rocking with North Central coming to town.