FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[smedindy]

Denying that Islam is an Abrahamic religion is an out-of-the mainstream theology.

I do know that Wheaton teaches science, of course. I know they offer a course that touches evolution. I know they say that professors can 'teach' evolution. I also know that it's against their core values to do so, since they believe that Adam and Eve gave life to humans (at least in a 2006 book quoting Dorothy Chappell). Evolution is not just contained within a species, it's how life moves from A to B to C. And you can be Christian and still believe in evolution.

I know Wheaton is an excellent college. Yet their handling of the hijab situation made it look bad - like Catholic schools firing teachers for being lesbians or giving birth out of wedlock. Yeah, it's against the 'rules', but is it the right thing to do?

[OzJohnnie]

Denying that Islam is an Abrahamic religion is an out-of-the mainstream theology.

I do know that Wheaton teaches science, of course. I know they offer a course that touches evolution. I know they say that professors can 'teach' evolution. I also know that it's against their core values to do so, since they believe that Adam and Eve gave life to humans (at least in a 2006 book quoting Dorothy Chappell). Evolution is not just contained within a species, it's how life moves from A to B to C. And you can be Christian and still believe in evolution.

I know Wheaton is an excellent college. Yet their handling of the hijab situation made it look bad - like Catholic schools firing teachers for being lesbians or giving birth out of wedlock. Yeah, it's against the 'rules', but is it the right thing to do?

Yes, I agree.  This incident is an indictment on the entirety of religion. 

Everyone has a horse to ride here and they are gonna ride it, dammit.

[Pat Coleman]

Idiocy, really? We are on to name calling now?

[izzy stradlin]

Denying that Islam is an Abrahamic religion is an out-of-the mainstream theology.

I do know that Wheaton teaches science, of course. I know they offer a course that touches evolution. I know they say that professors can 'teach' evolution. I also know that it's against their core values to do so, since they believe that Adam and Eve gave life to humans (at least in a 2006 book quoting Dorothy Chappell). Evolution is not just contained within a species, it's how life moves from A to B to C. And you can be Christian and still believe in evolution.

I know Wheaton is an excellent college. Yet their handling of the hijab situation made it look bad - like Catholic schools firing teachers for being lesbians or giving birth out of wedlock. Yeah, it's against the 'rules', but is it the right thing to do?

Did you really think Wheaton subscribes to main-stream secular theology??? 
They are not denying that Islam is an Abrahamic religion.  I don't know where you've been, but modern day evangelical protestant Christians believe theirs is the only true religion and therefore all others are false religions.  Again something that offends people.  This should be well known. If you really didn't know that you are not paying attention or living under a rock.   If you knew that (which I suspect) and are just trying to pick a fight about a schools beliefs on a football board that says way more about you than anything else. 

I am not going to go into the science thing with you. I doubt you have any idea what the Wheaton science department actually believes. 

You obviously have a personal problem with Wheaton and what it stands for.  I don't agree with everything in Wheaton's statement of faith, etc..    What I do greatly admire about the institution is they attempt to stand for something, they are not strayed by what is "mainstream", and they do this despite what people like you think. 

They have done this for over a century.  They will continue to and will do just fine. 

[shepherd]

Denying that Islam is an Abrahamic religion is an out-of-the mainstream theology.

I do know that Wheaton teaches science, of course. I know they offer a course that touches evolution. I know they say that professors can 'teach' evolution. I also know that it's against their core values to do so, since they believe that Adam and Eve gave life to humans (at least in a 2006 book quoting Dorothy Chappell). Evolution is not just contained within a species, it's how life moves from A to B to C. And you can be Christian and still believe in evolution.

I know Wheaton is an excellent college. Yet their handling of the hijab situation made it look bad - like Catholic schools firing teachers for being lesbians or giving birth out of wedlock. Yeah, it's against the 'rules', but is it the right thing to do?

Matthew 22:29
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
Mark 12:24
24 Jesus answered and said to them, "Are you not therefore mistaken, because you do not know the Scriptures nor the power of God?

2 Timothy 3:16
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Jesus says IT IS WRITTEN to Satan who misquotes the word of God.
Matthew 4:4
4 But he answered and said, IT IS WRITTEN, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Matthew 4:5-11
Then the Devil taketh Him up into the Holy City, and setteth Him on a pinnacle of the Temple,
and saith unto Him, if Thou be the Son of God, cast Thyself down; for it is written, He shall give His angels charge concerning Thee, and in their hands they shall bear Thee up, lest at any time Thou dash Thy foot against a stone.
Jesus said unto him IT IS WRITTEN Again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God."
Matthew 4:8
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
Matthew 21:42
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never READ in the SCRIPTURES, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
2 Thessalonians 2:15
15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
Proverbs 30:5-6
5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Mark 7:6-8
6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
Colossians 2:8
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
1 Corinthians 14:33
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

[OzJohnnie]

FYI - Transfer your kids to Bethel or if Catholic then St John's (St Thomas is for losers).  This is getting OTT in the CCIW.

[lmitzel]

Boy, things escalated quickly.

I've seen the Wheaton side of the story now too. Leaving theological arguments aside because we've had enough of those, there's still something that bothers me. If they're convinced their version of events is correct, why suspend the players, other than to fend off the pitchforks and torches?

Maybe I'm reading too much into this. I don't know what to believe. I just want the truth and justice to prevail, and I'm not picking a side.

My source also fears that supposedly protests are going to happen either at a practice or a game. Or both, who even knows anymore.

[Pat Coleman]

The character assassination of the victim is distasteful... It's bad enough to do so privately but I can't stop that. However, I can stop it from happening in public on this forum and I will.

[WooClone15]

The injury thing is another stumper to me. Shoulder surgery on both shoulders due to the incident?
I'm no attorney but I do play in the world of insurance. When is the last time you visited a doctor for an injury without your insurance company asking if another party was at fault? If an insurance carrier had to pay the bill, they would look to subrogate. Certainly the victim wouldn't have picked up the deductible and coinsurance- someone had to pay the bill.

Or maybe the family found a friendly D.A. that wants another notch in his belt and could help them get a settlement to pay some bills?

You'll need to explain this to me, how is the DA going to help them get a settlement? Those are two completely different types of cases

[ChicagoHopeNut]

Or maybe the family found a friendly D.A. that wants another notch in his belt and could help them get a settlement to pay some bills?

To Quote You Again:
This is just inflammatory and wrong to post. Shame on you for having no facts and saying stuff like this about a school DA with an impeccable record.

USee, this works both ways.

Also, I don't want to equate Swider to any other person. He deserves to be judged on his own record but there are plenty of football coaches with impeccable records who had their reputation wiped out quickly so let's not pretend its impossible anything bad happened (e.g., Art Briles, Joe Paterno, Hugh Freeze)

[smedindy]

All I was saying is that Wheaton, to the outside, doesn't have a sterling reputation, especially recently.

I know Wheaton cares less about what others think about is theology, etc. but to the OUTSIDE, it looks odd and intolerant. Pounding people over the head with Bible verses also adds to that perception. Being defensive about what is taught in science hurts, too. I know Wheaton is a College That Changes Lives, and they are not Liberty or some of those other way way RW fundie schools, but the OUTSIDE seeds black marks, and this is the latest one.

I'm glad you all are proud of your alma mater. I am of mine. It also looks weird from the outside world (all male...what???) I just wanted to argue the point that their reputation is as clean as someone thinks.

[tf37]

The character assassination of the victim is distasteful... It's bad enough to do so privately but I can't stop that. However, I can stop it from happening in public on this forum and I will.

Pat,

Are you going to hold the same standards for those associated with the Wheaton Football program, the college, and DA office as well?  I see comments on the main site and here that would appear to cross that line, at least from my point of view.

I completely agree that the victim needs to be protected and given the benefit of the doubt, but if people were to do a little more research as some have done before jumping to conclusions, they would easily be able to determine that there is another side to this story and calls for the 'death penalty', firing the coach, institutional integrity issues, etc. are way overblown at this point - including the article posted on d3football.com today. (Note - I wholly agree with the banning of hazing, but the author makes quite a few statements based on only one side of the story.)  And yes, there are questions of integrity of the victim based on details that came from the independent investigations by the school and the NCAA, not rumors, that are not being reported (for reasons I don't know).  Furthermore, the second victim in question is still on the football team and has a somewhat different take on what happened.  Based on the charges, the DA office feels otherwise and we need to let that play out.

These five young men in question made some bad choices and things crossed a line that required punishment.  And punishment was given swiftly and based on my understanding of the situation - inline with the offense.  With more information, I could be persuaded to change my stance.  Currently, I have not seen any news article that has truly detailed all the punishments that these young men received.  And now (18 months later) they are receiving additional punishments in the justice system and the court of public opinion, that doesn't seem to be appropriated based on my understanding of the situation and that has forced the college to punish them again as well (and yes being actually charged with a felony raises the bar even if it doesn't change the details).     

Coach Swider and the college have a proven track record of dealing with situations appropriately (at least from my point of view) and need to given the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. Likewise, they are also not infallible and we do need to hold them accountable.

People have brought up the other scandals that hit the university in past couple of years.  I don't know all the details of either one, but it appears that comments made here are based on headlines and not a more detailed understand of events.  If I am wrong, please feel free to correct me.

The skit by the football team was distasteful, but if people talk directly to the players involved they would easily be able to determine there was never the intent that others outside the program attributed to it.  Granted in this hyper-sensitive culture, they need to make better choices and be more thoughtful on the impact of their actions.  But I have read many times on this forum where a post or comment was taken completely differently than intended and I have seen people respond in adult like fashion to get the issue resolved. The players involved learned from their mistake and are hopefully better for it.  And from my perspective it is completely unrelated to the current situation.

It sadden me when people judge another person's heart by their own interruption of events, and I am guilty of this as well.  We do need to be sensitive to others feelings and experiences, understanding that we live in a wonderfully diverse ethnic society.  But for most of us, if we don't have all the facts maybe we should hold off on that judgment.

As with the professor that was let go, again if a little digging is done, the details would show that the college tried to rebuild the bridges and clarify her public position,.  Some may disagree with their approach or stance, but at the end of the day, if you have an employee that specifically teaches ideas that undermine your stated beliefs as an institution - what other recourse do you have except to let that person find employment some place else?



On a lighter note, I have enjoyed this forum for years in regards to what happens on the football field, but never thought this would be my first post...  I will be grateful when we can get back to discussing what happens on the football field again.

God Bless.

[Gregory Sager]

I think you guys jumped in the wrong direction. The comment about the two cases was about looking at the program itself and maybe the coach and asking the question about what is going on, the environment, and how can the program now have two extreme cases that have both garnered national attention and not in a good way. I don't see anything in comments to say that those accused would some how have their other case used against them or that the cases are related outside of being from the same program. Again, just that these two cases raise some serious questions that need to be addressed especially at an institution that has some strong beliefs.

D-Mac, the more important of the two discussions going on here is the criminal aspect of the situation, not the football aspect. After all, we're talking about five young men potentially going to prison. That's a bigger and more vital issue than the Wheaton football program taking a public-relations hit. And that's why AndOne made mention of the fact that the KKK incident shouldn't affect the criminal case. It was a germane and proper comment for him to make, IMO.

[Pat Coleman]

The character assassination of the victim is distasteful... It's bad enough to do so privately but I can't stop that. However, I can stop it from happening in public on this forum and I will.

Pat,

Are you going to hold the same standards for those

Welcome to the board.

I didn't read anything else you said. When you started a long diatribe with "are you going to do this, too" then I tuned it out. Sorry. Agreed that this isn't the way to make your first post.

[shepherd]

https://youtu.be/ntc2bOiglpg?t=12423