FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[USee]

Who is arguing for Rutter ahead of Fulford? That's just not what this discussion has ever been about. Again, the QB's are one example from a list of 75 players. One example does not make this list right or wrong. And last year is over. This is a pre-season list for 2018 and it is a guess, nothing more. There will be multiple players not on this list who will be AA's at the end. And many of these players won't make a final AA list.

[sigma one]

For 2016 and 2017, admittedly a small sample size, I've matched players from the pre-season AA first and second teams with those same players who appear on the post-season AA teams.  I've not bothered to try to match first-team pre-season predictions with first-team post-season results.  If a player appears on either the first or seocnd team on both lists, he gets counted. 
     For 2016, of 50 names on the pre list 13 appeared on the post list.
     For 2017, 16 appeared on the year's end list.
So, roughly one-third of the pre-season AAs also made the post-season AA team.

     Depending upon how one wants to argue the case, one-third can be thought of as a pretty good prediction or a weak prediction.  I'd take the side of saying that given all the variables that take place during a season, elevated play by some players, injuries, and success of teams (which makes their players more visible) one-third reappearing at the end of the season is a reasonable number. 

[Pat Coleman]

Who is arguing for Rutter ahead of Fulford? That's just not what this discussion has ever been about. Again, the QB's are one example from a list of 75 players. One example does not make this list right or wrong. And last year is over. This is a pre-season list for 2018 and it is a guess, nothing more. There will be multiple players not on this list who will be AA's at the end. And many of these players won't make a final AA list.

I thought they used to call *me* Captain Obvious!

[AndOne]

Just a quick thought on any PRE-season AA list.................🤔

A PRE-season AA list is like the stock market............Past performance is no guarantee of future success. 😏

[izzy stradlin]

The preseason AA list is hyper exclusive.  There are a lot of really good players that aren't listed, including those guys from North Central.

Hyper inefficient maybe, hyper exclusive, no. Pre-Season anything is a guessing game and appears as such. I will be very surprised, if NCC stays in the top 10 (which is a big if), to not see multiple NCC players as AA by the end of the season.

Pat-You may not have had Broc Rutter on your list now, but if he plays the way he is capable you will definitely have him on your list at the end of the season. And what's insane is he may not be the best QB in the CCIW this year.

Interesting.  Still looking forward to the USee more extended conference preview. 

[USee]

It's coming. I have 7 teams done and need to power through the others.

[AndOne]

With the possible exception of North Park, this likely doesn't affect the CCIW, or even most of D3, much at all. But, I just saw where five Chicago Public League schools—Chicago Tech, Douglass, Farragut, Gage Park, and Uplift—have dropped football for the upcoming season. The CPS mandates that teams need a minimum of 22 players to participate.

And while the CPS move may have little effect on the CCIW specifically, and D3 in general, it illustrates the fact that participation in youth leagues and high school football is on a fairly rapid decline in many environs. Here, in the western and southwestern suburbs of Chicago, many mommies and daddies are refusing to let their kids join youth leagues for fear of injury, a problem which has received heavy media coverage in recent years. I sense the same problem exists in many southern, northwestern, and northern suburbs as well. The primary problem with this is that in many (most?) suburbs, the youth leagues serve as feeder programs for the local high schools. Many high school team members have either played with or against each other for several years prior to entering HS.

While its yet to become a huge problem at most suburban schools, if you examine roster numbers at many schools, you'll see that program participation at several schools has decreased by up to about 50% over the number of freshmen through senior players that played for a school 5 to 10 years ago. While 50% may be extreme in many, if not most, cases, there are a large number of schools who have seen roster numbers decline by 25-30% in the last few years. It appears that this is a trend that will continue in the foreseeable future. 🏈 😕

[Gregory Sager]

With the possible exception of North Park, this likely doesn't affect the CCIW, or even most of D3, much at all. But, I just saw where five Chicago Public League schools—Chicago Tech, Douglass, Farragut, Gage Park, and Uplift—have dropped football for the upcoming season. The CPS mandates that teams need a minimum of 22 players to participate.

I don't remember NPU having any players on the roster from those schools in past seasons, aside from one player last year who was an Uplift grad. None of this year's Chicagoans who've joined the Vikings hail from any of those schools. In other words, this won't affect North Park.

And while the CPS move may have little effect on the CCIW specifically, and D3 in general, it illustrates the fact that participation in youth leagues and high school football is on a fairly rapid decline in many environs.

You've drawn the wrong conclusion. Those city schools didn't drop football because parents are steering their boys away from the sport due to CTE. They dropped football because filling out a football roster is always a dicey proposition at a CPS school. There are hardly any youth leagues in the city, and that's been the case for decades, so if a kid decides that he wants to go out for football once he gets to high school he's likely never put on a pair of pads in his life or been coached at all in the sport. The few youth leagues that there are, to say nothing of the suburban youth leagues or summer skills camps, are well beyond the financial reach of most city kids. Whereas a CPS school will likely draw a hundred or more kids to try out for the basketball team, and, if it's a school with a large Mexican and/or Polish population, a hundred or more will try out for the soccer team, a CPS football coach will count himself blessed if he gets forty kids to come out for football. The Chicago Public League is like a throwback to the high-school football played sixty years ago, with antique equipment, minimal media presence, and two-way players manning many of the positions. There are no blocking sleds or kicking nets, tackling dummies are duct-taped to the nth degree, and practice fields are often just open spaces in public parks that're filled with dog crap and broken glass. It's commonplace for coaches to dig into their own pockets to fill out equipment needs.

Every year there are CPS football programs that have to cancel their seasons because of a shortage of players. Last year there were thirteen schools that had to bow out for not meeting the 22-player minimum. That's why the Public League is now introducing flag football as a sport. And it's why what Phillips did three years ago was so amazing.

[AndOne]

Just to clarify—when I referred to the decline in participation in youth leagues and high school programs, I wasn't talking solely about the CPS. That's why I stated its a problem "in many enviorns." You know, like in places we call suburbs. 😉

[Mugsy]

Just to clarify—when I referred to the decline in participation in youth leagues and high school programs, I wasn't talking solely about the CPS. That's why I stated its a problem "in many enviorns." You know, like in places we call suburbs. 😉

I went to a Wheaton Warrenville South football game last year (my twins are entering high school this year) and was shocked to see there were only about 40-45 players on their varsity team.  I also learned they don't even have a freshman B team because of how few players they have even at the lower levels.  Wheaton Warrenville South (WWS) won 7 state championships and where runner-ups 4 times over the past 20 years, but each of the last 3 years they've finished 2-7!

Both Wheaton North and WWS have left the DuPage Valley Conference, one of the toughest football conferences in the state.  While they won't come out and say it, I believe one of the reasons is because they can no longer compete at the same level they once did against the large Naperville schools, that still have significant youth football programs to bolster their high school programs.

Fair to say my son will not be playing football either at Wheaton or North Park in 2021.  But it is not because we wouldn't let him play football.  He's just not into the aggressive, contact sports.  He's a swimmer.  I'm torn.  Part of me wishes he played, because I love the game so much.  But as I think of the non-diagnosed concussions I likely had over my 12 years of football, I can't say I'm horribly upset he has chosen not to play. 

It will be interesting to see the level of participation in a decade.

[Gregory Sager]

Just to clarify—when I referred to the decline in participation in youth leagues and high school programs, I wasn't talking solely about the CPS. That's why I stated its a problem "in many enviorns." You know, like in places we call suburbs. 😉

I'm well aware of the trend and what causes it. But if you're going to make a point by citing an example, cite one that's relevant. That's all I'm saying.

It will be interesting to see the level of participation in a decade.

Some people dismiss the situation, because football continues to be so overwhelmingly popular and so much a part of American culture. But this sport is in grave danger of dying a long, slow death. Anybody who denies that has his head in the sand.

[Mugsy]

It will be interesting to see the level of participation in a decade.

Some people dismiss the situation, because football continues to be so overwhelmingly popular and so much a part of American culture. But this sport is in grave danger of dying a long, slow death. Anybody who denies that has his head in the sand.

Completely agree. In the Wheaton high schools, there has been a dramatic increase in participation in other sports, like lacrosse and boy's volleyball.  In all the local swim clubs, you must register early or all positions fill-up.  There are waiting lists to join swim teams.

On top of that the game is dramatically changing each year due to rule changes in attempt to mitigate head injuries.  As a former defensive player, I'm not sure how you are supposed to tackle someone in today's game.   That is not to say I went around spearing people, but many completely legal, hard hits from "my era" would result in targeting penalties and ejection from games today. 

[USee]

Mugsy,

You speared a lot of people in your day, don't kid yourself.

[Mugsy]

Mugsy,

You speared a lot of people in your day, don't kid yourself.

LOL... But I learned from you. 

Hmm, maybe that is what led to the undiagnosed concussions?   

Kinda scary in some regards.  There were two games in my senior year where we installed a special defensive package, just for the opponent we faced that week.  In both games when going down to blow-up the wedge on kick-off team, I got my bell rung.  For the rest of the game the defensive calls in the huddle sounded familiar, but I had no idea what I was supposed to do.  Short term memory was wiped.  I recognized the base defensive calls, but for any calls associated with the new scheme for the week, I had to ask my teammate in the huddle what I was supposed to do before each play. 

[Gregory Sager]

Good thing you married a smart North Park alumna to help make up for all of those football-induced mental gaps, Mugsy.

(Of course, your Wheaton teammates probably think that you married a North Parker as a result of getting your bell rung once too often.)